Save a homosexual's soul!

[Zaac]

So her mind is set in stone before the topic was even made, and this was just a trap to hopefully call on those who believe homosexual acts are wrong when they err?

Her mind is made up. The mind's of most gay people are made up. That's why this is a spiritual issue that only Jesus Christ can handle. That's why Christians should keep giving God's Word that makes men free.

Don't argue semantics and context with people who don't believe God's Word is His Word.

This was her attempt to show that no one can prove to her satisfaction answers to what she asked.

Receiving the Truth involves faith in the One Who is Truth. And until that relationship is where it needs to be, there is NOTHING that anyone can say to her that answers what she asked. The things of the Spirit must be spiritually discerned.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

No Ishida, this has been an argument in this forum for months. We've never gotten a straight answer so we keep asking it. There is no trap I don't think. I wasn't in that mindset when I made a thread like this.

 

[Zaac]

No Ishida, this has been an argument in this forum for months. We've never gotten a straight answer so we keep asking it. There is no trap I don't think. I wasn't in that mindset when I made a thread like this.

No Ishida, it's been a defense of sin since the beginning of time. Ever since sin has entered this earth, man has been making excuses.

This argument of "I will believe it when you prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt" is like getting on a merry go round. You see and hear the same thing time and time again, and the person who asked the question is never adequately satisfied.

And even if they were, contrary to what they say, it would not change their hearts and it wouldn't save the unsaved.

This is a spiritual issue and nothing short of the Holy Spirit will convince them that His Word is true.

God did not call His Children to do what only He can do. The Bible says 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32

It is God's Word that makes men free.

 

[Ohioprof]

We do accept you as who you are. You're a sinner mired in sin just like the rest of us.

You just seem to think that your sin ain't sin.

Why? Why don't you accept those Christians as who they are and stop pointing fingers atthem and telling them what they should do? Why don't you leave them alone and stop trying to get them to stop doing what God commands?

You continue to accuse me of committing a "sin," and you still refuse to tell me what the "sin" is.

I am not telling any Christians to stop being who they are or to stop worshipping or believing. I have said that I accept the faith of others, their understanding of what it means to be a Christian. I accept other people's beliefs even though I may not share those beliefs.

I have never denigrated any Christians. I am Christian myself, and I respect all varieties of Christians and other faiths as well.

What I will not accept is the practice that some engage in of pointing fingers and throwing stones at gay people. We gay people are human beings, and we will be treated with respect, not denigration. We will not be anyone's scapegoats. We will not sit silently by and be attacked without responding. My personal response will always be non-violent and, I hope, respectful. But it will be a firm response.

Gay people are not trying to deny Christians the right to practice their faith. Many of us gay people are Christians. But some Christians are clearly trying to prevent gay people from living our lives openly and freely as we are.....as gay people. Fortunately, I think that most Christians are not trying to do that.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

No Ishida, it's been a defense of sin since the beginning of time. Ever since sin has entered this earth, man has been making excuses.

This argument of "I will believe it when you prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt" is like getting on a merry go round. You see and hear the same thing time and time again, and the person who asked the question is never adequately satisfied.

And even if they were, contrary to what they say, it would not change their hearts and it wouldn't save the unsaved.

This is a spiritual issue and nothing short of the Holy Spirit will convince them that His Word is true.

God did not call His Children to do what only He can do. The Bible says 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32

It is God's Word that makes men free.

You don't have to prove to me that drugs are bad, I can see that.

You don't have to prove to me that abortion is bad, the conseqeunces are obvious.

Incest, adultery, greed, bragging, cheating, all of those have consequences. Either for the one commiting them or a third party, someone gets hurt. Unless you abuse you, homosexuality doesn't have these consequences. Which is why I think it's so questionable.

It isn't just because I'm homosexual either. Back in Junior High (years which I so deeply wish I could do over again) I smoked. Did I think it was right? No. Did I try to make it not a sin? No. I recognized what I was doing was wrong. Luckily it was easy for me to quit.

The saying "well you're just trying to justify your sin" is such an assumption about a person it almost hurts. It has killed people when they couldn't change after they were told they had too.

 

[Zaac]

You continue to accuse me of committing a "sin," and you still refuse to tell me what the "sin" is.

Don't muddy your personal issues from another thread in this one.

I am not telling any Christians to stop being who they are or to stop worshipping or believing. I have said that I accept the faith of others, their understanding of what it means to be a Christian. I accept other people's beliefs even though I may not share those beliefs.

All you're saying with this is that it's okay for you to tell someone else what to do, but when it comes to Christians, there are certain things that you believe they shouldn't be able to say anything to you about.

I have never denigrated any Christians. I am Christian myself, and I respect all varieties of Christians and other faiths as well.

You're also a universalists whose beliefs run counter to God's Word. So why would you expect a mature Christian to not speak God's truth against the majority of the stuff you say?

What I will not accept is the practice that some engage in of pointing fingers and throwing stones at gay people.

You don't have to accept it. You don't get to dictate what other Christians do anymore than you say that can't tell you what to do.

We gay people are human beings, and we will be treated with respect, not denigration. We will not be anyone's scapegoats. We will not sit silently by and be attacked without responding. My personal response will always be non-violent and, I hope, respectful. But it will be a firm response.

Then respond. But I say again, if you get the right to tell them what you wish they would stop doing, why don't you afford them the same right to tell you what you need to stop doing?

Gay people are not trying to deny Christians the right to practice their faith.

And no straight person is trying to deny gay people the right to practice their faith.

Many of us gay people are Christians. But some Christians are clearly trying to prevent gay people from living our lives openly and freely as we are.....as gay people. Fortunately, I think that most Christians are not trying to do that.

You've let us know many times that you are grown. WHo is stopping you from living your life openly and freely?

 

[Zaac]

You don't have to prove to me that drugs are bad, I can see that.

You don't have to prove to me that abortion is bad, the conseqeunces are obvious.

Incest, adultery, greed, bragging, cheating, all of those have consequences. Either for the one commiting them or a third party, someone gets hurt. Unless you abuse you, homosexuality doesn't have these consequences. Which is why I think it's so questionable.

That's why I said it's a spiritual issue. You're trying to see the immediate consequences of sin on the spirit with your physical eyes.

It isn't just because I'm homosexual either. Back in Junior High (years which I so deeply wish I could do over again) I smoked. Did I think it was right? No. Did I try to make it not a sin? No. I recognized what I was doing was wrong. Luckily it was easy for me to quit.

A wise man once told me that if you can see it with your eyes, it's not your enemy. If we could only stay in the spirit long enough to see how sin affects our spirits.

The saying "well you're just trying to justify your sin" is such an assumption about a person it almost hurts.

Being set free of sin is gonna involve some pain. The flesh wants to rule ya. It doesn't want to let go. That's one of the reasons the truth hurts people. Their flesh is at enmity with Christ and always will be.

It has killed people when they couldn't change after they were told they had too.

Truth doesn't kill. In accordance with God's Word, the truth sets men free.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

That's why I said it's a spiritual issue. You're trying to see the immediate consequences of sin on the spirit with your physical eyes.



A wise man once told me that if you can see it with your eyes, it's not your enemy. If we could only stay in the spirit long enough to see how sin affects our spirits.




Being set free of sin is gonna involve some pain. The flesh wants to rule ya. It doesn't want to let go. That's one of the reasons the truth hurts people. Their flesh is at enmity with Christ and always will be.



Truth doesn't kill. In accordance with God's Word, the truth sets men free.

Then the belief that homosexuality is a sin is not truth. Because it has killed. I'm quite spiritually healthy.

 

[Zaac]

Then the belief that homosexuality is a sin is not truth. Because it has killed. I'm quite spiritually healthy.

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Unless I'm mistaken, and someone correct me if I am, but the Bible speaks to acts performed, not orientation.

Homosexuality hasn't killed anyone. Acts have killed.

You're 16. You all think you're healthy in every way. If you were spiritually healthy, you would recognize your spiritual deficiencies.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. Unless I'm mistaken, and someone correct me if I am, but the Bible speaks to acts performed, not orientation.

Homosexuality hasn't killed anyone. Acts have killed.

You're 16. You all think you're healthy in every way. If you were spiritually healthy, you would recognize your spiritual deficiencies.

To clarify: you only think homosexual fornication is a sin (though fornication can be considered a sin in any situation).

Assumption. Assumption. Assumption.

 

[Zaac]

To clarify: you only think homosexual fornication is a sin (though fornication can be considered a sin in any situation).

If you're going to clarify, clarify correctly. I have stated repeatedly that in accordance with God's Word, fornication is fornication and it doesn't matter if you're a heterosexual or a homosexual.

Assumption. Assumption. Assumption.

The only assumption is that you assume you're spiritually healthy.

 

[davedjy]

If you were spiritually healthy, you would recognize your spiritual deficiencies.

This another one of those comments, that has no business being in a debate forum, which shows 0 tolerance in another's beliefs.

I can say the same thing, "if you were spiritually healthy, you would be able to discern that homosexuality is just a part of a person's genetic make up, and isn't a sin at all".

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

If you're going to clarify, clarify correctly. I have stated repeatedly that in accordance with God's Word, fornication is fornication and it doesn't matter if you're a heterosexual or a homosexual.



The only assumption is that you assume you're spiritually healthy.

And so you assume all sixteen-year-olds think they're healthy in every way.

I'm spiritually healthy as much as a 16-year-old be. Healthy doesn't mean perfect it just means in good condition.

 

[Ohioprof]

If you're going to clarify, clarify correctly. I have stated repeatedly that in accordance with God's Word, fornication is fornication and it doesn't matter if you're a heterosexual or a homosexual.



The only assumption is that you assume you're spiritually healthy.

She seems spiritually healthy to me. (But of course, it's hard to assess someone else's spiritual health over the internet.)

 

[Ohioprof]

Don't muddy your personal issues from another thread in this one.



All you're saying with this is that it's okay for you to tell someone else what to do, but when it comes to Christians, there are certain things that you believe they shouldn't be able to say anything to you about.



You're also a universalists whose beliefs run counter to God's Word. So why would you expect a mature Christian to not speak God's truth against the majority of the stuff you say?



You don't have to accept it. You don't get to dictate what other Christians do anymore than you say that can't tell you what to do.



Then respond. But I say again, if you get the right to tell them what you wish they would stop doing, why don't you afford them the same right to tell you what you need to stop doing?



And no straight person is trying to deny gay people the right to practice their faith.




You've let us know many times that you are grown. WHo is stopping you from living your life openly and freely?

The fact that you have repeatedly accused me of committing some heinous "sin," while refusing to specify what my supposed "sin" is, is something I will continue to call you on, Zaac. You have claimed that you answered my question about what my supposed "sin" is, but you never did. You have dodged and evaded my question.Since you have accused me several times of committing a terrible "sin," why don't you just say what it is and be done with it? If you really care about "saving" my soul by accusing me of "sin," then shouldn't you be willing to say what that "sin" is?

 

[Ohioprof]

Don't muddy your personal issues from another thread in this one.



All you're saying with this is that it's okay for you to tell someone else what to do, but when it comes to Christians, there are certain things that you believe they shouldn't be able to say anything to you about.



You're also a universalists whose beliefs run counter to God's Word. So why would you expect a mature Christian to not speak God's truth against the majority of the stuff you say?



You don't have to accept it. You don't get to dictate what other Christians do anymore than you say that can't tell you what to do.



Then respond. But I say again, if you get the right to tell them what you wish they would stop doing, why don't you afford them the same right to tell you what you need to stop doing?



And no straight person is trying to deny gay people the right to practice their faith.




You've let us know many times that you are grown. WHo is stopping you from living your life openly and freely?

There are certain things that we Christians should not say or do. We Christians should not denigrate gay people or throw stones at gay people or seek to deny gay people equal and fair treatment. We should not denigrate anyone or throw stones at anyone or treat anyone unfairly. I am a Christian, and so when say what I think we Christians should not say or do, I am speaking of myself as well as other Christians. We should not do these things, because they are hurtful to others, and they are NOT what Jesus would do. No gay person that I know of has sought to deny any Christian the right and the opportunity to worship freely and to practice his or her faith freely. There are some Christians, unfortunately, who do seek to deny gay people basic civil rights and fair treatment, not just within the churches, but in the wider civil society. They seek to deny us the right to marry and to raise families with protections for our children. They seek to deny us the right to keep our children. They seek to suppress honest information about us, about our families, and about our lives. A few even seek to kill us in the name of Jesus. If gay people tried to do that to Christians, we Christians would howl in protest and demand justice, with good reason. But gay people have never tried to do anything like that to Christians. We gay people simply want to live our lives with the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexuals. That includes the right to marry our spouses and provide legal protections to our families, including our children. Have I been denied the ability to live openly and freely? I'll share a personal story. A few years ago, I went with two women friends to a lesbian club. One of the friends was not a lesbian; she just wanted to go out with us to hear some music. Late in the evening we left the club and walked down the street. Suddenly we were attacked by a man yelling at us that we were dykes, and he was going to show us what a real man can do. He had a small gang of guys with him, though they did not actually participate in the attack. They just watched as he tried to choke me, and as my friend tried unsuccessfully to bring him down by kicking him in the knees. Our other friend managed somehow to get away and get back to the bar while we were trying to fight off this guy, who was clearly high on something. Suddenly he stopped fighting and accused me of pulling his gold chain and cross off his neck and losing it. He said, "That cross was blessed!" I said, "Oh, you are a religious person?" The guy then forced us to get down on our hands and knees and look for the cross on the ground. He also forced another woman to get down on the ground and search. She lived in a nearby apartment and had come out to see what the commotion was. The gang ensured that we could not get away. Then the police arrived and the guy was arrested. The police told us that he was a known rapist and someone known to attack gay people. He was eventually convicted of attacking us. Many gay people can share similar stories of having been attacked just for walking out of a bar or for holding hands or for being too visibly gay. I am not suggesting that Christians are the ones doing the attacking. But I would like to see more Christians standing up and speaking out against such crimes. Instead of debating whether "homosexuality" is a "sin," I think it would be useful for more Christians to stand up against the mistreatment of gay people. I think Jesus would have been in the forefront of the gay rights movement. I think Jesus would have been outspoken in his denunciation of those people who attack gay people and who treat gay people like we are not people at all. I would like to invite you, Zaac, to become one of those Christians who stands up against the still all-too-frequent attacks that are aimed at innocent gay people.

 

[Ohioprof]

My paragraphs did not get spaced properly in my last post, and so it is one long paragraph and is hard to read. I will try to fix it tomorrow and hope that the spacing works right. I apologize for the hard-to-read post.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

That's terrible. A product of of our culture no doubt..
As much as I don't want to say this, you could call your sin "The blind leading the blind" or a "false teacher" you're telling people that sin is ok when it is not. (If you hold to the bible..)

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Prof doesn't believe the Bible is inerrant, so she doesn't follow the Bible. And I do have to argue that what is sin is never okay, but sin is inbred and isn't necessarily determined by the Bible. But I don't believe we're all saved irregardless of whether or not we believe.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

No Ishida, this has been an argument in this forum for months. We've never gotten a straight answer so we keep asking it. There is no trap I don't think. I wasn't in that mindset when I made a thread like this.

How isn't it? She set a standard for our answers that is open for change at her whim. By rejecting the bible as a moral authority, there is no basis on which to make an answer.