Satan Rules This World!

[Cassiopeia]

I didn't, you said that we shouldn't judge one another, which is very true. Yet scripture still says that all things outside the christian org. are satans. You seemed offended by that so you said we shouldn't judge one another.

show me this where the sciptures say that ll things outside of the christian org. are satans.

 

[Ratiocination]

In 1 Corinthians 15:26 it says, “ The last enemy to be destroyed is death.” In verse 24, it tells us that the end will come after everything has been destroyed and death was that last thing. The word “destroy” has the same meaning as in Hebrews 2:14 and Romans 16:20.

Both in 1 Corinthians 15:26 and Hebrews 2:14, death, Satan or the Devil go hand in hand. I ask again. Did Jesus destroy death or not?

Not straight away no, nothing in this text says that was the case, only your theology.

Look at the time frame in Corinthians 15:24, “Then the end will come…”

Look at the context!
20 However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep [in death]. 21 For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.



The context makes clear the time frame and it’s not 70ad it’s talking of a future time when all governments are brought to nothing. Or the end of human rebellion.

The law + Sin = Death

Let us go into this a little deeper. I am not going to go into detail about the eschatological matters. Many articles prove that Jesus has returned and the resurrection, judgment has happen in 70 AD. I would like to pose a question. The law passed away and death, Satan, Hades have been destroyed, all in the same time period, 70 AD. Where does that leave “sin”? In Romans 6:23 it says, “The wages of sin is death.” So, if sin still exists, what is the result from sin since death has been destroyed?

Lets read the Bible bro, again you use the time frame of Daniels prophecy to make your position sound viable, but the time frame in Daniel ended in 36ad not 70. Daniel clearly says that;
Dan. 9:27“And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.

So sin is clearly defeated at this point because the sacrificial requirements are no longer needed, the point of time here was 33ad when Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice for all mankind, and thus defeated sin.

Again, let us start in the Old Testament. Go to Daniel 9:24.

“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.”

What does it mean, “….to put an end to sin…”? In Strongs # 8552 or Goodwick # 9462, the word is “Taman”, which means to be finished, to completely destroy. Some say that it is talking about animal scarifies. That cannot be, because it talks about that in verse 27.

Come on, what does it say at the outset? There are seventy weeks to finish off sin make atonement, bring in righteousness, etc, etc. Then the prophecy breaks down the time frames exactly, when atonement for error came in the perfect sacrifice of Christ, sin was finished! No amount of writing on your part could ever change the fact that he destroyed sin at that point.

 

[Ratiocination]

show me this where the sciptures say that ll things outside of the christian org. are satans.

Ok,
1John 5:19
19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one
and
1John 2:15
15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Ok,
1John 5:19
19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one
and
1John 2:15
15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.

that does not show me where it says that anything outside of Christianity are satan's. I see you taking scripture and adding your understanding to them but I do not see it declaring..."if you are not christian you are satanic". I find such inferences to be inflamatory and insulting to a good many people who are not Christians.

 

[xhristlives]

Perhaps a more interesting solution to this suggestion is the idea that Satan is the ruler simply of earthly, materialistic concerns in this world, whereas God, though master of all things, is primarily focused on our souls which are our redeeming features (thru Christ). In this way i would wholly agree with Casiopeia who said;

[Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him.]QUOTE.

By focusing on our physical bodily nature-and the natural immorality that goes with this, we empower Satan. Whereas by looking to Christ, God is empowered, and our physical nature becomes irrelevant, and Satan becomes impotent...

 

[Cassiopeia]

Perhaps a more interesting solution to this suggestion is the idea that Satan is the ruler simply of earthly, materialistic concerns in this world, whereas God, though master of all things, is primarily focused on our souls which are our redeeming features (thru Christ). In this way i would wholly agree with Casiopeia who said;

[Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him.]QUOTE.

By focusing on our physical bodily nature-and the natural immorality that goes with this, we empower Satan. Whereas by looking to Christ, God is empowered, and our physical nature becomes irrelevant, and Satan becomes impotent...

 

[Rescued One]

Perhaps a more interesting solution to this suggestion is the idea that Satan is the ruler simply of earthly, materialistic concerns in this world, whereas God, though master of all things, is primarily focused on our souls which are our redeeming features (thru Christ). In this way i would wholly agree with Casiopeia who said;

[Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him.]QUOTE.

By focusing on our physical bodily nature-and the natural immorality that goes with this, we empower Satan. Whereas by looking to Christ, God is empowered, and our physical nature becomes irrelevant, and Satan becomes impotent...

We can't do anything to empower God. He chooses to give us power.

"The whole world lieth in wickedness" (I John 5:19).

The Son of God appeared to destroy the works of the devil.

 

[xhristlives]

Sorry-a more reasonable way to put it is---

i agree that God chooses to give us power, but WE MUST BE WILLING TO SEEK, AND ACCEPT IT...!!

 

[Ratiocination]

that does not show me where it says that anything outside of Christianity are satan's. I see you taking scripture and adding your understanding to them but I do not see it declaring..."if you are not christian you are satanic". I find such inferences to be inflamatory and insulting to a good many people who are not Christians.

I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,
Everything that does not originate with the father originates with the world, and the world is lying in the power of the wicked one, notice please if you dare how I have not even said what I think these scriptures mean, so why have you said that i've "added my understanding to them"!!! Why?
And where on earth have I said, "if your not christian your satanic"? Why have you said that about me?

This is a little unfair!

 

[Rescued One]

Sorry-a more reasonable way to put it is---

i agree that God chooses to give us power, but WE MUST BE WILLING TO SEEK, AND ACCEPT IT...!!

Are we more powerful than God? Then Who makes us willing to seek and accept it?

"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." Ezekiel 36:26-27


"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" Ephesians 2:1-2

 

[Rescued One]

I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,
Everything that does not originate with the father originates with the world, and the world is lying in the power of the wicked one, notice please if you dare how I have not even said what I think these scriptures mean, so why have you said that i've "added my understanding to them"!!! Why?
And where on earth have I said, "if your not christian your satanic"? Why have you said that about me?

This is a little unfair!

You are right about the whole world following Satan. A person must be born again in order to no longer be a child of wrath.

Ephesians 2
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

[Ratiocination]

You are right about the whole world following Satan. A person must be born again in order to no longer be a child of wrath.

Ephesians 2
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Careful there GWIT someone might say your calling everyong satanic,

Christian Love.

 

[Rescued One]

Careful there GWIT someone might say your calling everyong satanic,

Christian Love.

I love people whether they are saved or not. I was a child of wrath at one time.

 

[Ratiocination]

I agree with you that universally God is in control, but I think we should understand from scripture that Satan has been given the freedom of the entire earth, but only for a limited time.

It seems clear to me from the scriptures that this period of time is to settle some serious issues that were raised in the Garden of Eden. These were issues of sovereignty and obedience. This issue was new to all creation, never before had gods right to rule been questioned, so God had to allow time to pass for man to prove our capabilities of ruling ourselves, this is where the nations fit in, they're man made, thus they have no divine approval as such, and exercise their own sovereignty aside from clear scriptual laws. So they do in effect belong to Satan in that he instigated the rebellion to begin with.
Rev. 12:9 says that Satan has gone global.

I'll dig out some scripture for this, but tell me what you all think!

Richard.

I agree with you so far!

Now comes the entire point of this thread, if as most here agree that Satan rules the world, in a somewhat sneaky way, then when does this world of Satan’s mankind come to an end?

The entire issue of sovereignty was raised on earth, so logically therefore God will settle that question on earth. Exactly what would God need to see from rebellious mankind to determine whether things have been left long enough? The issue was simple, Mankind had to demonstrate how well we would take care of a global population of humans, to see if our way really was better than the direct rule we should have had from Eden. Note the purposes of God in Eden at Gen. 1:26-27, we read of how God said that humans were to fill the earth and subdue it, well under our system this hasn’t be achieved, yet God said it could under his system.

So God would need to allow enough time so that there was no excuse not to govern ourselves properly, now enters the 20th and 21st centuries, have we not got governments that have technological achievement beyond compare, does this world not produce food to feed the world many times over, we can travel across the world in aircraft in less than a day. And we have a global population of humans; yet, people starve from lack of food, a basic thing to government. What excuse does mankind have not to fulfil these basic needs?
So is the issue being settled now?

 

[unbound]

Now comes the entire point of this thread, if as most here agree that Satan rules the world, in a somewhat sneaky way, then when does this world of Satan’s mankind come to an end?

The entire issue of sovereignty was raised on earth, so logically therefore God will settle that question on earth. Exactly what would God need to see from rebellious mankind to determine whether things have been left long enough? The issue was simple, Mankind had to demonstrate how well we would take care of a global population of humans, to see if our way really was better than the direct rule we should have had from Eden. Note the purposes of God in Eden at Gen. 1:26-27, we read of how God said that humans were to fill the earth and subdue it, well under our system this hasn’t be achieved, yet God said it could under his system.

So God would need to allow enough time so that there was no excuse not to govern ourselves properly, now enters the 20th and 21st centuries, have we not got governments that have technological achievement beyond compare, does this world not produce food to feed the world many times over, we can travel across the world in aircraft in less than a day. And we have a global population of humans; yet, people starve from lack of food, a basic thing to government. What excuse does mankind have not to fulfil these basic needs?
So is the issue being settled now?

Yes. I think the issue is being more defined now. Like when Moses came down out of the mountains. Everyone is choosing what side they are on.

 

[Zippythepinhead]

I love people whether they are saved or not. I was a child of wrath at one time.

 

[Rescued One]

Is there a question you'd like to ask me?

 

[Cassiopeia]

I find this twisting of my words to be highly inflamatory,
Everything that does not originate with the father originates with the world, and the world is lying in the power of the wicked one, notice please if you dare how I have not even said what I think these scriptures mean, so why have you said that i've "added my understanding to them"!!! Why?
And where on earth have I said, "if your not christian your satanic"? Why have you said that about me?

This is a little unfair!

First, I am not twisting your words. I am sorry if my pointing out the implication of your own words is offensive. Let me demonstrate this to you;

I didn't, you said that we shouldn't judge one another, which is very true. Yet scripture still says that all things outside the christian org. are satans. You seemed offended by that so you said we shouldn't judge one another.

I have highlighted your OWN words saying that ALL things outside of Christian org are satans.

Then I responded with this.

show me this where the sciptures say that ll things outside of the christian org. are satans.

Then you said:

1John 5:19
19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one
and
1John 2:15
15 Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world.

To that I have replied,

that does not show me where it says that anything outside of Christianity are satan's. I see you taking scripture and adding your understanding to them but I do not see it declaring..."if you are not christian you are satanic". I find such inferences to be inflamatory and insulting to a good many people who are not Christians.

Now all religions that are outside of the christian org., by default according to your post are Satans...ie Satanic. If this is not the intent of your post, perhaps you would like to clarify it for me. It is quite clear here for anyone to see what your posts were and what my questions were. I am sorry you are so upset but then so was I DEEPLY offended by the insinuation that any outside of the christian org. would be Satan's ie Satanic.

Peace,
Casi

 

[CaliforniaKid]

So God would need to allow enough time so that there was no excuse not to govern ourselves properly, now enters the 20th and 21st centuries, have we not got governments that have technological achievement beyond compare, does this world not produce food to feed the world many times over, we can travel across the world in aircraft in less than a day. And we have a global population of humans; yet, people starve from lack of food, a basic thing to government. What excuse does mankind have not to fulfil these basic needs?
So is the issue being settled now?

I encountered someone recently who was really ticked off that the U.S. subsidizies farmers to overproduce grain and then floods the markets of 3rd world countries with grain every year. To me it seems like the Christian thing to do. I mean, world hunger, right? Keep food prices low in other countries, right? But it ruins their economies. It was kind of an eye-opening conversation to me. I'm not entirely sure that the answer is so simple anymore.

In any case, back to your question. I see human history as a story. It starts with everything fine and dandy in the garden. Then at the Fall Satan comes onto the scene. Things get hairier and hairier. You have the first murder with Cain and Abel, you have the flood, you have the Tower of Babel... then God picks Abraham to be the agent through whom he saves the world... eventually Abraham's seed will bless the nations. The Old Testament is the tale of the cosmic battle between God and Satan, a battle that God seems for the most part to be losing. Then we come to a turning point in the story: Jesus Christ. Christ is the king of a new kingdom: a kingdom that is an alternative to the kingdom of Satan that seems to dominate this world. The new kingdom is steadily pushing back the powers of darkness, but eventually the story is going to climax. At that time Satan and God themselves will intervene in human history and lead their forces against each other in a dramatic conflict of cosmic proportions.

I won't spoil the ending in case anyone hasn't read the book.

-CK

 

[Jason of Wyoming]

when does this world of Satan’s mankind come to an end?

I forget, Ratio, was it in the 1880's, 1914, or 1975?