Satan Rules This World!

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Ratiocination

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Hi Everyone,

What do you all think about this;

Matthew 4:8-9
8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.

Could Satan offer these nations if they weren't his to give?

Also read;

1John 2:16-17
because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

So when does this world "pass away"?

Any thoughts?
 

rhyddid_rose

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To Life Immortal

Satan doesn't rule this world; God does. Satan doesn't cause gravity. Satan doesn't make the sun shine. Satan doesn't make flowers grow nor children laugh and play.

God is large and in charge. People have free will and some of them choose to do evil; neither God nor Satan made them do this.

Satan is a liar and he was lying while he was attempting to make Lord Jesus abandon His mission on Earth. Lord Jesus knew Satan was full of bovine fecal matter. Lord Jesus didn't need to bow down to get something that is already His.

I don't know where in the bible it says this; I don't read the Bible as I should. I remember that it says God owns the cattle on 1000 hills. God created this planet and He is King of Kings and Lords of Lords.

Never forget the One before you stand.


Peace and Long Life
~*~ бабочка ~*~
 
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Ratiocination

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babochka said:
To Life Immortal

Satan doesn't rule this world; God does. Satan doesn't cause gravity. Satan doesn't make the sun shine. Satan doesn't make flowers grow nor children laugh and play.

Agreed! But satan rules this current society of mankind, the only thing thats not his is that which originates with the father.

God is large and in charge. People have free will and some of them choose to do evil; neither God nor Satan made them do this.
I agree again, Surley we must be influenced in our free will...I'm suprised we've come to the root of the whole issue so quickly ;)

Satan is a liar and he was lying while he was attempting to make Lord Jesus abandon His mission on Earth. Lord Jesus knew Satan was full of bovine fecal matter. Lord Jesus didn't need to bow down to get something that is already His.
Yet Jesus is not a liar, so he would have just told Satan he was being an idiot and offering stuff that wasn't his. No, Jesus simply refused to do the thing asked for in order to recieve satans possesion.

I don't know where in the bible it says this;
Then this will be a long discussion...
Go to Genesis and find the commision to Adam, where is it written that he was to establish nations and kingdom for his offspring? These things are simply the product of human rebellion, and do not "originate with the father"
1John 2:16

Richard.
 
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unbound

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Satan has some power. He is a fallen angel and does know some things. He was cast down to this world. He dwells within its spiritual plane.

Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Daniel 11:38
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
 
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CaliforniaKid

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Hey, I just finished writing a research paper on this! Here's the appropriate portion minus footnotes (the footnotes won't paste for some reason and I don't feel like typing them all out):

The traditional interpretation of this temptation is quite simply that Satan is offering political power in exchange for the act of prostration. More sophisticated interpreters have posited a number of important correctives to this understanding of the passage.

Fuliga has noted that what Satan envisions is not an exchange of power. The devil does not share his power; and clearly he intends to remain in the dominant position. This proposition is further strengthened by the observations of Taylor, who points out that Jesus substitutes proskunesein for phobethese in his citation of Dt. 6:13. While the usage elsewhere in the New Testament seems always to denote religious worship, Taylor appeals to the Septuagint, in which proskunew is often used for the veneration of human beings of distinction. Both Taylor and Carter have remarked that the word designates the prostration required by later emperors, particularly Gaius Caligula. Most analogous to the account in Matthew would be the prostration of a vassal king to his Roman overlord. Clearly in this context, at least, the worshipper is in and remains in a subservient position to his object of worship.

Commentators are at odds as to whether or not Satan’s offer is a legitimate one. Jill-Levine weighs in on one side with the assertion that "Jesus is unable to accept Satan’s offers of power because these offers are illegitimate; only God can bestow upon Jesus ‘all authority in heaven and earth.’" On the other hand, in light of the contributions of Taylor and Carter, we may wish to side instead with Davies and Allison. They note the many appellations that ascribe worldly authority to Satan, including John’s assertion that Satan is "the ruler of this world" (Jn. 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).

Further insight may be gleaned when we understand the temptation narrative as a rite-of-passage for Jesus, with direct implications for his ministry. One interpreter has posited that Satan means to suggest that Jesus "can win a swift and popular military victory with the power at [his] command," and can thereby avoid the suffering and death that God is requiring of him. Jesus then rejects this approach because "to use the world’s methods to gain the world would be to become the Messiah of the world’s god, not the Messiah of his Father who had sent him." Clarke agrees: "Satan promises what many Jews must have yearned for, a messiah who would appear as a mighty warrior and world ruler." Eddy has also thrown his weight behind this interpretation, adding that "to worship [God] is to be true to [his] nature, and to exemplify [his] values, come what may—even the Cross."

Satan thus envisions Jesus’ armies radiating out from the mountain into all the world. Luz and Saldarini have both conjectured that this may stand in contrast to Mt. 28:16-20, in which Jesus’ power over the world is proclaimed and his disciples are sent as missionaries to all the nations.
 
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Ratiocination

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Tell me what you think of these;

1 John 5:19 19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. . .

Ephesians 6:12 12 because we have a wrestling, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places.

John 12:31 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.. . .



1 Corinthians 14:33 33 For God is [a God], not of disorder, but of peace. As in all the congregations of the holy ones. . .


Richard
 
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Hidden Manna

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Fallen human nature is biased toward sin and wickedness. Unregenerate people are naturally inclined to unrighteousness and things that are displeasing to God. Satan’s assistance is not at all a requirement for these characteristics to exist within the human race.


What is the stance regarding salvation? Because if you take away future judgment, then where does the need to believe in Christ come into it?
Paul speaks of having a “citizenship in heaven”. The Kingdom of Heaven replaced the Old Covenant Kingdom/Nation, and it is an eternal Kingdom. It was ushered in as a “subset” within the human race. The eternal planet, and human history upon it, will always have the Kingdom of Light manifesting the glorious Truth and wisdom of God to it via the Kingdom citizenry. Just as in the OLD Covenant “heavens and earth” or “world”, circumcision was a necessary requirement for citizenship, so in the NEW Covenant “heavens and earth” or “world”, SPIRITUAL circumcision or “circumcision in heart” is required for citizenship therein. THIS is what spiritual regeneration via faith in Christ entails. It qualifies us as citizens of that Kingdom, and prepares us to enjoy eternity with its heavenly King. Yes, “future judgment” is no longer before us, but we ARE held accountable individually, in THIS life (and possibly the next) for our responses to God and His Truth.

We are told in the Scriptures that the devil was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet already were (Rev. 20:10). We aren’t told anything about the fate of the “fallen angels”. We ARE told that the eternal flame of torment was prepared for the “devil and his angels”, but the Greek word for “angels” is the same as for “servants”, and contextually it refers to the JEWS who served Satan in persecuting Christ and His First Century Body - the Church.
I don’t see ANYTHING in Scripture, personally, suggesting that the fallen angels would EVER be destroyed or terminated. But their LEADER is gone, and their “kingdom of darkness” is left in chaos. They can never mount a full-scale assault on the Kingdom of Heaven and Light again. They continually undermine and double-cross each other, as no evil spirit wants to be answerable to another one. They all want to be “top dog”. This is why our planet seems to have conflicting conspiracies in it, and why there will NEVER be a “one world government” that will last for any length of time.
 
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Rescued One

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Ratiocination said:
Tell me what you think of these;

1 John 5:19 19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. . .

1 John 4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 Corinthians 8
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
 
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Ratiocination

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Hidden Manna said:
Fallen human nature is biased toward sin and wickedness. Unregenerate people are naturally inclined to unrighteousness and things that are displeasing to God. Satan’s assistance is not at all a requirement for these characteristics to exist within the human race.


What is the stance regarding salvation? Because if you take away future judgment, then where does the need to believe in Christ come into it?
Paul speaks of having a “citizenship in heaven”. The Kingdom of Heaven replaced the Old Covenant Kingdom/Nation, and it is an eternal Kingdom. It was ushered in as a “subset” within the human race. The eternal planet, and human history upon it, will always have the Kingdom of Light manifesting the glorious Truth and wisdom of God to it via the Kingdom citizenry. Just as in the OLD Covenant “heavens and earth” or “world”, circumcision was a necessary requirement for citizenship, so in the NEW Covenant “heavens and earth” or “world”, SPIRITUAL circumcision or “circumcision in heart” is required for citizenship therein. THIS is what spiritual regeneration via faith in Christ entails. It qualifies us as citizens of that Kingdom, and prepares us to enjoy eternity with its heavenly King. Yes, “future judgment” is no longer before us, but we ARE held accountable individually, in THIS life (and possibly the next) for our responses to God and His Truth.

We are told in the Scriptures that the devil was cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet already were (Rev. 20:10). We aren’t told anything about the fate of the “fallen angels”. We ARE told that the eternal flame of torment was prepared for the “devil and his angels”, but the Greek word for “angels” is the same as for “servants”, and contextually it refers to the JEWS who served Satan in persecuting Christ and His First Century Body - the Church.
I don’t see ANYTHING in Scripture, personally, suggesting that the fallen angels would EVER be destroyed or terminated. But their LEADER is gone, and their “kingdom of darkness” is left in chaos. They can never mount a full-scale assault on the Kingdom of Heaven and Light again. They continually undermine and double-cross each other, as no evil spirit wants to be answerable to another one. They all want to be “top dog”. This is why our planet seems to have conflicting conspiracies in it, and why there will NEVER be a “one world government” that will last for any length of time.
Did you post this in the right thread?
 
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Ratiocination

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GodsWordisTrue said:
1 John 4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Exactly, but that doesn't detract from Satan being ruler of the world on the outside of the christian org.

1 Corinthians 8
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
In the greater context of the Bible we do see Satan being reffered to as "a god", so Satans godship must be simply a reverential godship.
 
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Cassiopeia

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Satan has no more power of this world than that which MAN gives him. I don't think it is appropriate to say that he rules outside the Christian org. That is slandering all other faiths and I find that offensive. I have know "christians" who allowed his influence in their daily lives of their own choosing so I wouldn't recommend that such a statement be made.

It goes against the teaching of; judge not least ye be judged, for that which ye measure shall be meted out to you.

Respectfully,
Casi
 
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ralrachaan

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Ratiocination said:
Hi Everyone,

What do you all think about this;

Matthew 4:8-9
8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.

Could Satan offer these nations if they weren't his to give?
Yes, he could, because he is the master deciever.
Ratiocination said:
Also read;

1John 2:16-17
because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. 17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.

So when does this world "pass away"?

Any thoughts?
I think by the "world" here it means secular society.
 
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Ratiocination

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Casiopeia said:
It goes against the teaching of; judge not least ye be judged, for that which ye measure shall be meted out to you.
Hi there, how can it go against the scripture when it is the scriptures themselves that tell us this truth. Trying to cancel out verses using other verses is not the way to correct doctrine.

Christian love.
 
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Ratiocination

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ralrachaan said:
Yes, he could, because he is the master deciever.
ralrachaan said:
Then why didn't Jesus just tell him that, it must be because, like we read in the rest of the scriptures, Satan does indeed own this world of manking outside the Christian org.
 
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unbound

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Ultimately the world is Gods. Satan is being given plenty of rope,however.

Keeping a keen eye towards the details in the bible, we see that this world has been created as a trap for satan.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
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Ratiocination

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unbound said:
Ultimately the world is Gods. Satan is being given plenty of rope,however.
unbound said:
Keeping a keen eye towards the details in the bible, we see that this world has been created as a trap for satan.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I agree with you that universally God is in control, but I think we should understand from scripture that Satan has been given the freedom of the entire earth, but only for a limited time.
It seems clear to me from the scriptures that this period of time is to settle some serious issues that were raised in the Garden of Eden. These were issues of sovereignty and obedience. This issue was new to all creation, never before had gods right to rule been questioned, so God had to allow time to pass for man to prove our capabilities of ruling ourselves, this is where the nations fit in, they're man made, thus they have no divine approval as such, and exercise their own sovereignty aside from clear scriptual laws. So they do in effect belong to Satan in that he instigated the rebellion to begin with.
Rev. 12:9 says that Satan has gone global.

I'll dig out some scripture for this, but tell me what you all think!

Richard.
 
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