Sanctification : How to be sanctified.

[Sidon]

Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. This verse makes a strong case for being born with a fallen, sinful nature. Here is another verse - The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. (Psalm 58:3)

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).

Truth.

 

[TedT]

All people, including infants, die as a consequence of Adam sinning not because they inherited Adam's. People die as a consequence of a drunk driver's sin not because they inherit the drunk driver's sin.

Only sinners die as death is the wages for sin, ie, the consequence for choosing to sin. Every sinner sown (planted, not created) into the world (Matt 13:38-39) was put here to be in Adam's death (not his sin) so by one death of Christ covered all elect sinners in Adam.

For anyone to be a sinner requires a law to exist (Romans 4:15) and that law must be transgressed (1 john 3:4) by an acountable person (Romans 7:8-9) making the idea of original sin impossible. Since infants have done no evil (Romans 9:11) they are born innocent, neutral, without sin.

I hear this pov so seldom I probably will not remember it as your theology...please just bear with me if I don't remember.

Original sin is a misnomer for our inherited sin. I agree most vehemently that we inherit no one's sin nor sinfulness or anything from them spiritually:
Ezekiel 18:20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child.
with
Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin;
...but we do have our own personal original sin that caused our initial separation from GOD (except for the promise of election) that had us to be born into Adam's death.

Infants die; death proves sin; infants are guilty of their own sinfulness, just not while in the womb - they arrive already sinful.

About breaking the law causing one to be a sinner:
Have you ever noticed that the purpose of the law is to instruct sinners, not to create them? Ie, sin comes before the law: 1 Tim 1:9 We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, etc, etc...
so it is curious why GOD gave Adam and Eve a command with the legal consequence of death to not eat if they were innocent or even righteous, eh?

 

[Sidon]

Jesus came to so can look right when we're really not. Sounds something like the Pharisees ironically.

Can you rephrase your sentence so that it makes sense?

Listen.
When a person is born again, they become the Righteousness of God, In Christ.

There is your sinlessness found and your eternal life sustained.

Its by being "made righteous".

 

[fhansen]

I'll just make the correction and repost here:

Great, you've succeeded in separating righteousness from, well...righteousness. Jesus came so we can look right when we're really not?? Sounds something like the Pharisees ironically.
"Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23

Anyway, justification and sanctification are real gifts of righteousness from God that amount to more than forgiveness of sin or not having past sin counted against us. They are part and parcel of walking in the Spirit, living the life of grace. And we aren't forced to remain in that justice, that justified state, to remain in Him, we can turn and walk back away from it at any point. You've been heavily influenced by certain understandings of the reformed doctrine of Sola Fide.

 

[Sidon]

Original sin is a misnomer for our inherited sin. I agree most vehemently that we inherit no one's sin nor sinfulness or anything from them spiritually:

The reason that Jesus was born without sin, and without an Adamic (fallen) nature, is because God is the Father of Jesus.

Our DAD on earth, has a "adamic nature' and this is a spiritual issue, that all inherit.
The reason we must be BORN AGAIN, is to be removed from this fallen nature of sin, and rebirthed into God's Holy Spirit, by God's Holy Spirit, and this birth give us a NEW SPIRIT, that is the "new Creation".
It is sinless, and remains so.

 

[TedT]

The reason that Jesus was born without sin, and without an Adamic (fallen) nature, is because God is the Father of Jesus.

Our DAD on earth, has a "adamic nature' and this is a spiritual issue, that all inherit.

I've heard it all before for more years than I can count but I reject that the GOD who is love would create HIS Bride (or anyone else for that matter) with the fallen nature of anyone else without their own true free will guilt of choosing to rebel against HIM or HIS command! No mens rea, no guilt!!!

This sounds all very well and good alright until you take into account that GOD is pure love, righteous and just.

<headshake, facepalm>

 

[TedT]

The reason that Jesus was born without sin, and without an Adamic (fallen) nature, is because God is the Father of Jesus.

The reason Jesus was without sin is because He WAS GOD the Son!!!

mygoodnessme, sigh.

 

[Butterball1]

By one man , Adam........the human species became the "adamic nature".

By the 2nd Adam, Jesus, """"""all who call on the name of Jesus, believing, shall be saved."""""
And that is to become Born Again, with the same nature that Adam had before he transgressed and became "fallen".

This is God's original nature, or "righteousness".
The born again are "made righteous", just like Adam was before he transgressed and lost His Righteousness.

You're not consistant with your intrepretation. On one hand you want all men unconditionally be sinners due to Adam but on the other hand you says some who conditionally call on the name of Jesus will be saved.
Yet the Bible shows men are conditionally made sinners when they choose to sin 1 John 3:4 and conditionally made righteous when they choose to have faith Romans 5:1-2.

 

[Butterball1]

Only sinners die as death is the wages for sin, ie, the consequence for choosing to sin. Every sinner sown (planted, not created) into the world (Matt 13:38-39) was put here to be in Adam's death (not his sin) so by one death of Christ covered all elect sinners in Adam.

There is physical death and spiritual death. All men will die physically as a consequence of Adam sinning not because of inheriting Adam's sin. Did Christ die physically because of inheriting Adam's sin?

Yet only those who choose to sin and refuse to repent of those sins will die spiritually. Infants are not capable of sinning, they are not accountable to God's law (Romans 7:8-9) therefore born innocent, safe.

I hear this pov so seldom I probably will not remember it as your theology...please just bear with me if I don't remember.

Original sin is a misnomer for our inherited sin. I agree most vehemently that we inherit no one's sin nor sinfulness or anything from them spiritually:
Ezekiel 18:20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child.
with
Jeremiah 31:30 Instead, everyone will die for their own sin;
...but we do have our own personal original sin that caused our initial separation from GOD (except for the promise of election) that had us to be born into Adam's death.

I agree people are sinners for THEIR OWN PERSONAL SINS and not because they inheirted sin from Adam.
Yet people are not born with personal sins. Sin is not just an idea one is born with but sin is actual transgressions committed, 1 John 3:4. Not until one transgresses God's law can he be a sinner and infants are not able to sin and are not accountable to God's law.

It seems you are trying to make one a sinner BEFORE one even commits a sin, which is not possible. That's like calling a wall painted BEFORE even putting any paint on it. What a person is is determined by what a person does...a person who does righteous is righteous and person who sins is a sinner. And "righteous" and "sinner" are not just labels placed randomly upon people apart from what people do.

Infants die; death proves sin; infants are guilty of their own sinfulness, just not while in the womb - they arrive already sinful.

--all people, including infants, die as a consequence of Adam sinning not because being born with sin.
--the Bible defines sin as transgression of God's law. What sin have infants at conception committed that makes them a sinner? None, for they are not capable of sinning, they have no knowledge or idea of what sin even is and not even accountable to God's law, Romans 7:8-9.

About breaking the law causing one to be a sinner:
Have you ever noticed that the purpose of the law is to instruct sinners, not to create them? Ie, sin comes before the law: 1 Tim 1:9 We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, etc, etc...
so it is curious why GOD gave Adam and Eve a command with the legal consequence of death to not eat if they were innocent or even righteous, eh?

But infants cannot be instructed. Infants have not developed intellectual ability nor have language skills to be instructed as to what sin is, they have not learned right from wrong (Isaiah 7:14-15) therefore not accountable to God's law and not being able to sin they cannot be sinners. Infants have done no evil (Romans 9:11) therefore not sinners....can't call one a sinner who has committed no sin.

Romans 7:8-9
For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

--without law sin is dead, sin is not imputed where there is not law and Paul says he was once without law meaning that as an infant he was without law therefore sin was dead to him, sin was not imputed to him

--yet as Paul intellectually matured leaning right from wrong, he became accountable to God's law THEN sin sprang up in him. He was not born with sin but sin speang up in him later in life.

--Paul says he was spirirtually alive once (as an infant) but later spiritually died (became an accountable to God's law knowing right from wrong). If original sin were true, then he would NOT have been spiritually alive once but would have been born spiritually dead and remained spiritually dead until he became a born again Christian.[/quote]

 

[Brightfame52]

Sanctification is in Christ alone apart from the behavior of the Child of God. Paul when writing to the church of God at Corinth, which church had many problems and divisions, starts the letter 1 Cor 1:1-2

Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense. The Church of God has Sanctification in Christ which is Her Head Eph 5:23;Col 1:18

 

[Sidon]

I've heard it all before for more years than I can count but I reject that the GOD who is love would create HIS Bride (or anyone else for that matter) with the fallen nature

God didnt create Adam and Eve with a "fallen nature".
He Created them RIGHTEOUS or.."in Our Image let us create man". "we created man is OUR Image"....our same LIKENESS......RIGHTEOUS.

So, Adam was sinless, holy, righteous, but he gave this up, for an apple, for LUST, for...."I want to experience that", and God had told him.....if you do it, you shall surely DIE."

What Adam didnt understand, is that this death was not just the body....it was the SPIRIT.
And once that happened to Adam, it was passed to all of us.
This is the "adamic nature".

God , as Jesus the 2nd Adam, came here to live a perfect sinless life, and this life He lived, we GET, as if we lived it.
That is "the GIFT of Salvation"
On the Cross, Jesus becomes our sin, And we become "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

We receive this Salvation, when we TRUST IN JESUS, and we get the RIGHTEOUSNESS that GOD provides that JESUS LIVED in our place.
We become this, as the "new Creation". ="made righteous".

 

[Sidon]

The reason Jesus was without sin is because He WAS GOD the Son!!!

mygoodnessme, sigh.

Yes, just like Adam before He ate that apple.

When we are born again, by the Holy Spirit, based on the blood of the 2nd Adam, we become just like the 1st Adam was before He "fell".
We become the same righteousness as Christ's Righteousness.

 

[Sidon]

Yet the Bible shows men are conditionally made sinners when they choose to sin 1 John 3:4 and conditionally made righteous when they choose to have faith Romans 5:1-2.

God's Salvation is Freely offered, but to get it, you have to Believe in the One who died as your Salvation.

Salvation is not the believing Part.....that is Salvation being given, because you believed.

Salvation is THE CROSS, 2000 yrs ago, and what God as Christ finished there, for the world... John 3:16.
----------------------------

Adam's righteousness was lost, and so this fell to the entire human race.
To resolve this, God came here and died for you.

 

[Sidon]

. Did Christ die physically because of inheriting Adam's sin?

Christ didnt come from the seed of Adam.
Christ came from the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[TedT]

It seems you are trying to make one a sinner BEFORE one even commits a sin, which is not possible.

IF all people existed before the physical universe existed (as Job 38:7 can be seen to imply) then of course it is possible for them to sin before the physical universe was created and when they are sent to earth (Matt 13:38-39), as sinners (only sinners are born on earth) they bring their sinfulness with them and sin on earth. How do you deal with Matt 13:38-39 anyway else?

I believe the story of Jacob and Esau fighting in the womb to be instructional. The actual word used for their fighting is a reciprocal form of ratsats, S H7533, to crush each other to pieces, which implies they are indeed sinful in the womb because while one might have been fighting righteously ie in self defence, both can't have been fighting the other by GOD's Spirit or will for them...

Of course by now I don't need to repeat that the translations of the word ratsats as struggle, wrestle or jostle each other are mere clumsy eisegetical attempts to cover over their sinfulness in the womb...

But the most interesting part is GOD's explanation to Rebecca about why they were trying to ratsats, crush each other to pieces, ie both wanted to be the first born and get their father's birth right, not knowing that GOD had chosen the elder to serve the younger. Now, just how could two pre-borns in the womb know anything about their future as Hebrews and the laws of primogeniture in Hebraic society???

IF they were just newly created in the womb at conception, GOD could have spoken to their souls and told them about their future lives in a Hebrew society but then, why did GOD not tell them HIS pans for the younger to rule and save them from their sinful hostility? I find it far more likely that GOD chose this method to show their pre-conception existence and fall into sinfulness before conception in such a way it could be (and would be) ignored for, what, 3000? years, that is, hidden, so to speak, like the Divine suffering Messiah was hidden in plain sight for generations.

 

[TedT]

But infants cannot be instructed. Infants have not developed intellectual ability nor have language skills to be instructed as to what sin is, they have not learned right from wrong (Isaiah 7:14-15) therefore not accountable to God's law and not being able to sin they cannot be sinners. Infants have done no evil (Romans 9:11) therefore not sinners....can't call one a sinner who has committed no sin.

Don't forget you must adjust thoughts about the meanings of these verses because of the teachings of Ps 51:6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
which says that we are (or can be) indeed taught in the womb.

You are selling people short methinks...because you look at them, not what the bible says about them, hmmmm?

 

[TedT]

God didnt create Adam and Eve with a "fallen nature".
He Created them RIGHTEOUS or.."in Our Image let us create man". "we created man is OUR Image"....our same LIKENESS......RIGHTEOUS.

Oh I know that - but inherited sin means that everyone else has been created as sinful in Adam... and you know that.

Death is the wages of sin, not a consequence of life.
Death proves sinfulness.
Infants die.
Ergo infants in or out of the womb are sinful.

Either they got their sinful nature from Adam as orthodoxy suggests or they sinned in a life previous to conception and bring that sinfulness with them.

 

[Sidon]

Oh I know that - but inherited sin means that everyone else has been created as sinful in Adam...

Here is the best way to understand it..

We are born with a sin nature.
Had Adam not sinned, then this would not be our situation.

If you want me to drill it down to the reality check, then that's a bit more complex.

It like this..
What Adam and Eve did is REBELLION.
This is the nature of the DEVIL.
Jesus said that unbelievers are "of your father, THE Devil".

This means that the unbelievers, who are all of us, at one time, had the nature of the DEVIL.
He is the spiritual father of all unbelievers, and that is why sinners sin.
Sin, sinning, LUST, is a part of REBELLION, and this is the Devil's Nature.
A child of the devil, is a unbeliever, and that is why they sin and it feels NORMAL and GOOD and FUN.
It also feels normal to their Father. He really enjoys it.

When we are born again, we are given a new Spirit, and now we become, a Child of a different Spiritual Father.

 

[TedT]

This means that the unbelievers, who are all of us, at one time, had the nature of the DEVIL.
He is the spiritual father of all unbelievers, and that is why sinners sin.

How did we get the nature of the devil?

The devil got it by a free will rejection of YHWH as GOD and repudiating the Son as the only saviour from sin. Adam and Eve got it by rebelling by their free will against HIS command though they accepted HIM as their GOD.

You haven't answered how the rest of us got our satanic nature except by either inheriting it from Adam because GOD set it up for us to be created with a Satanic nature by means of Adam
or
by a free will rebellion to HIS commandments before our conception in Adam.

IF I am a sinner by GOD's will and not by my own choice, then I can't be guilty of any sin nor under any consequence for my actions. There are so many blasphemies trying to make GOD's responsibility for our sinfulness to be righteous and our guilt real without our free will decision to rebel...do you have a favourite?

 

[Brightfame52]

See just as the scripture teaches an imputed righteousness apart from works, it also teaches an imputed sanctification/holiness apart from works, both premised on the person and work of Jesus Christ the head of His Body the Church ! There's a perfect sanctification of all the elect whom Christ died for Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ[His Death] once for all.