Sanctification : How to be sanctified.

[Navair2]

Salvation is absolutely not related to what a person does.

In no way at all?
Then why do you teach that a person's faith is what the Lord looks upon when He decides to save someone...or am I misunderstanding what you're telling me?

God offers it.....-= Salvation, as "the gift of Salvation"..... John 3:16

You don't see what you just did there, do you?
"God offers it".

In your next quote, "...they receive it." Which I agree with.
But let's go back to what you said above...
God offers it.
Where do you see anywhere in His word God offering salvation to anyone?

For example, look closely at John 3:16...
Do you see an offer, or a statement of fact?
Also, what does a person have to do to receive it?
Nothing or something?

In other words, all offers, no matter what is being offered or by whom, come with conditions that must be met, or the person who does not meet them will not be rewarded with the item...the same as any other market deal, used car lot deal, etc.

But all gifts come with no strings attached...
or it's not a gift.

A person does not do or earn or keep salvation, " they RECEIVE it, as "the gift of Salvation".

Amen.
But let's look at the above, shall we?

Is salvation an offer ( a deal that we make with God ), or a promise and a declaration ( where God does something and we then partake of it without our efforts influencing who is saved and who is not )?

 

[Brightfame52]

Salvation is absolutely not related to what a person does.
You'll never find a word in my Threads or Posts, that talk about any type of self effort as the way a person is saved or stays saved. (Salvation).

Listen, Salvation, is Jesus on the Cross, 2000 yrs Ago.
He said..>"it is finished/accomplished"< then died.

The "it" is Salvation.
He did it....He finished it. Its done.
God offers it.....-= Salvation, as "the gift of Salvation"..... John 3:16

A person does not do or earn or keep salvation, " they RECEIVE it, as "the gift of Salvation".

What scripture says God offers Salvation ? Jn 3:16 doesnt say that, nowhere close !

 

[Sidon]

Then why do you teach that a person's faith is what the Lord looks upon when He decides to save someone...or am I misunderstanding what you're telling me?
In other words, all offers, no matter what is being offered or by whom, come with conditions that must be met,
Is salvation an offer ( a deal that we make with God ), or a promise and a declaration ( where God does something and we then partake of it without our efforts influencing who is saved and who is not )?

Faith is not a work.
Also, Salvation is based on "belief"., which is not a work.
That is the condition.
The condition is that you believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross= as the ONLY reason, God will take you and keep you.
You do this in your heart, not with your biceps.

 

[Danthemailman]

Faith is not a work.
Also, Salvation is based on "belief"., which is not a work.
That is the condition.
The condition is that you believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross= as the ONLY reason, God will take you and keep you.
You do this in your heart, not with your biceps.

Faith is certainly not just another work in a series of works in a quest to obtain salvation by works. Man is saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[Sidon]

What scripture says God offers Salvation ? Jn 3:16 doesnt say that, nowhere close !

""For God so loved the world that = HE GAVE "..

John 3:16

See that?

Do you understand the word "GAVE"?

Gave what?

"His only begotten Son".

Who is that?

That is Jesus.

How did God "give Jesus".

= THE CROSS.

 

[Brightfame52]

""For God so loved the world that = HE GAVE "..

John 3:16

See that?

Do you understand the word "GAVE"?

Gave what?

"His only begotten Son".

Who is that?

That is Jesus.

How did God "give Jesus".

= THE CROSS.

Wrong that scripture doesnt say nothing about an offer !

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is not a work.
Also, Salvation is based on "belief"., which is not a work.
That is the condition.
The condition is that you believe in the finished work of Christ on the Cross= as the ONLY reason, God will take you and keep you.
You do this in your heart, not with your biceps.

Faith is not a work if one admits its the Gift of God, and it doesnt come from within man naturally !

 

[Sidon]

Wrong that scripture doesnt say nothing about an offer !

For God so "gave"..
There is your offer.
If you take what He is giving, (The Blood of Jesus), by faith, then God will take you.
If not, then not.

 

[Sidon]

Faith is not a work if one admits its the Gift of God, and it doesnt come from within man naturally !

Faith is an act of trust.
Its your free will, making a decision.
God requires you to make it, and God holds you accountable for not making it, regarding believing in Jesus.
If you dont, you are this.... John 3:36

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is an act of trust.
Its your free will, making a decision.
God requires you to make it, and God holds you accountable for not making it, regarding believing in Jesus.
If you dont, you are this.... John 3:36

If you say it faith comes from within man and because of it God saves you, it defaults to a works merit salvation you earned.

 

[Sidon]

If you say it faith comes from within man and because of it God saves you, it defaults to a works merit salvation you earned.

Faith : is a choice to BELIEVE in Christ.

This is why those who have, are termed "believers".

Those who have not believe are termed "unbelievers".

"all that believe in Jesus...shall be saved". "all that believe not shall be damned".

 

[Navair2]

Faith is not a work.

But depending upon where one places faith in the lineup ( before or after the new birth ), it can be made into a work...can it not?

If our faith as believers is what God uses to determine who to save and who to cast into the Lake of Fire, then that is what God relies upon to decide who to grant His gifts to... which then raises the possibility of us being legally able to boast in our faith, and not strictly upon His grace and mercy alone ( Titus 3:5-7 ).

Is that what you see the Bible teaching, Sidon?
Conditional salvation that is dependent upon our own efforts, belief, faith, etc?

If so, then I must disagree on what appears to many to be a fine point;
But when analyzed deeper, places God's mercy and compassion on people who have earned it by their faith ( making it a reward ), and not been the recipients of a gift by His grace through ( involving ) their faith ( which was also given to them as a gift of His mercy and grace ).

Please allow me to break down and summarize what I'm trying to develop...

Here's how I see it:
Salvation in eternity past (grace unworthy of man's works)-----> new birth -----> belief / faith in His words out of a heart made pure.

Here's how I see you describing it:
Faith / belief in His words (man's works worthy of God's grace) out of a heart not yet made pure----> new birth / born again -------> salvation forever forward.

Also,
Please correct me if I'm in error on anything that I've observed in your presentations.

 

[Navair2]

Also, Salvation is based on "belief"., which is not a work.

Thank you for your honest reply.
However,
I'm sorry, but I find that I must disagree with you here, and this is why:

1) " And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ) <----- Here I see that the ones who believed did so because they were ordained to eternal life, not the other way around.

2) " No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 ). <----- Same here. Only the ones who are drawn will come to Him, plus all who are drawn will be raised up at the last day. Also, if all men were drawn, as John 12:32 seems to say, then all men will be raised up at the last day.

3) " But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:64-65 ). <----- To me, this passage all by itself addresses why some believe and why others do not. Because no man can come to Him ( believe on Him ) except it were given to that person of His Father to do so.

4) " He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:47 ). <---- Why do some willingly listen to God's words and those words "sink in", having an affect on a person's conscience and spirit? This is answered right here.

5) " But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. " ( John 10:26-28 ). <----- Why do people not believe? Because they are not "of" His sheep. His sheep hear His voice...He knows them, and they follow Him.

These and many others answer my own questions as to why some believe on Christ, from the heart, and others do not.
Because they believe on Christ from a formerly "dead" heart that He has mercifully opened to be receptive to Him and His words, just as Acts of the Apostles 16:14 tells me.

So, if you're seeing that a person's salvation is dependent upon their belief,
then to me you're contradicting yourself and admitting that we as sinners can indeed perform something to merit our being saved by Him.
That's not an intended insult, that's merely an objective view that I'm taking.

In other words,
Instead of belief being a product of His grace and mercy alone, it seems that you've made His grace and mercy totally dependent upon a person's efforts, no matter how small and insignificant they are, in order to obtain them.

Am I mistaken?

 

[Navair2]

@Sidon :
Also, you'll see that in many instances in your comments that I am agreeing with you on what faith actually is, and how the Lord treats it when it comes to who He regards, their prayers and so forth;
I also agree that He looks upon true, heartfelt belief and trust and considers that as righteousness (Romans 4)...
But I don't agree with you about where it exists in the matter of salvation and how it functions in that regard.

To put it simply, I see that true biblical faith is not "of ourselves".
It is the gift of God...not "of" works, lest any man should boast ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ).

It is authored ( begun ) and finished ( perfected ) by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and it exists as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ( Hebrews 11:1 );
It is both His gift to believers and the evidence of His working in them.

His word also says that not all men have it ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ), therefore I conclude it is because it is a gift given to His people, and not to all men,

In the same respect, our sanctification was and is not a cooperative effort...
It is God sanctifying us by the blood of His Son on the cross, irrespective of our own efforts to please Him,
and it is God sanctifying us by the power of His Holy Spirit within us as believers, because we are His beloved children, His elect.

 

[Brightfame52]

For God so "gave"..
There is your offer.
If you take what He is giving, (The Blood of Jesus), by faith, then God will take you.
If not, then not.

Gave His Son not offered Him. Now Christ offered Himself to God as a sacrifice !

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is an act of trust.
Its your free will, making a decision.
God requires you to make it, and God holds you accountable for not making it, regarding believing in Jesus.
If you dont, you are this.... John 3:36

I have spoke on that !

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith : is a choice to BELIEVE in Christ.

This is why those who have, are termed "believers".

Those who have not believe are termed "unbelievers".

"all that believe in Jesus...shall be saved". "all that believe not shall be damned".

I have made myself plain on that !

 

[Sidon]

But depending upon where one places faith in the lineup ( before or after the new birth ), .

It's impossible to be born again, before you believe in Jesus.
Its BECAUSE you give God your faith in Christ, that this happens...."faith is counted as Righteousness".

So, it would be interesting to find out what denomination has taught you that you can be born again, without faith, or as you described it...."after" the new birth.

 

[Sidon]

So, if you're seeing that a person's salvation is dependent upon their belief,
?

Jesus said that:

""""""if you do not believe He is the Messiah, (Son of God, The Savior), then you will die in your sins".

Jesus then defines this more clearly, as....>"I am The WAY", and "No man (person) comes to the Father but by ME">

The NT defines this as the "narrow Way".


Finally, Jesus produces the exact WAY...... "The Cross", and Jesus says..>>"it is Finished", and died.

So, what is "finished"? ????

= The only WAY to God......this is the Cross and why Paul says he only "preaches The Cross" and Christ Crucified".

This is the "gospel", that Paul states is "My Gospel".

 

[Sidon]

@Sidon :

It is the gift of God...not "of" works, lest any man should boast ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ).

Your verse is teaching that Jesus on the Cross, this blood being shed as the new covenant, is the "Gift of God".

See, if you teach that faith is the Gift, then what is Jesus on the Cross?

He's THE Gift.
And that is why you have these verses ..

1. The Gift of Salvation""""

2. The Gift of Righteousness"

This is the CROSS....


See that?
The GIFT.......is the END RESULT of God as Christ on the Cross, offering this... John 3:16