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Sidon

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Have you read the Epistle of James? Faith without works is dead.

I did more then read it. I studied it and discerned it.

So, let me explain your verse you posted, so that the readers can see it..

James said, to the believers ....."faith without works is dead".
Then James says this, teaching them what he means..
"i will show YOU , MY Faith, by my works'. = spiritual "fruit".

See that?

Why did he say that?
Because when faith is real vs, stagnate and cold, then your life reflects it, as "works". "fruit".

So, if your faith is dead then you are backslidden, and you are not focused at all on the things of God.
This is DEMAS...who was born again, and a Part of Paul's ministry, but got caught up in the world, and left it all.

Where is He now?
He is with all the born again who have died since Christ was Crucified.


Finally. ..... Notice that James says "dead faith< but is careful to not say...>dead salvation.

Notice that, and then in the future when a deceiver tries to make you feel that you can lose your salvation, by misquoting James, you will know what they are, instantly.
 
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Sidon

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Firsrly, “self-saving theology” is Pelagianism, but rejecting the doctrine of Pelagius does not require us to embrace Calvinist determinism or Once Saved, Always Saved, which is a moral hazard.

I dont notice Calvin.
I only Teach Paul.

And the "once saved always saved", phrase you used, was created by a legalist who rejects the Cross, and does not understand the Blood Atonement.
And neither do his disciples.
 
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Sidon

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“Blood atonement” by the way is not a commonly used phrase in Christianity;

You mean its not widely known by your denomination.
I agree.

Lets look at the phrase.

"Atonement"...this means at-one-ment.
To be as "ONE". is the correct "christian" NT Pauline Theology understanding.
I can't vouch for Websters or for the "cult of Mary", as i am not interested in their definition.

So, this explains why the world BLOOD is used with it.

As its by the Blood of Jesus, that we are made "ONE with God, in Christ".

This : "For by one offering (blood atonement) CHRIST hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

Notice = "perfected forever", and "ARE sanctified"...

How?
By the "blood Atonement", not by works, not by effort, not by commandments.

Only by Christ's Blood. The Blood Atonement.
 
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Sidon

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Even so, John MacArthur goes a step further, by teaching that, those who presently live by that Gospel Faith, will never fall away or lose their salvation - because their faith and resulting salvation are both guaranteed by God.

Let me show you the error in John's theology, regarding "why they will never fall away"..

Its very simple.
John is equating being saved, with never being bad , ever again.
He is teaching that because you are sanctified by the Blood of Jesus, you can never again be a human and totally mess up.

So, thats not reality or Christianity.

Here is the reality.
Paul said. "use not your LIBERTY, as a occasion to the flesh".
Paul then described the works of the Flesh...and its a list of carnal deeds, including witchcraft...etc.

So, a born again Christian does not have a born again mind.
And that mind, until it is renewed,.... will take you into carnality, if you do not learn how to renew it, so that you are no longer trapped and controlled by the "soul realm", which is the Natural or Carnal Mind.
 
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Sidon

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I don't know how many believe that but many believe that once made just, justified, one is expected to walk in that justice, and not compromise and ultimately lose it. We must remain in Him;

The only way you can be in God and remain, is to be born again.

Your theology of self effort does not cause the new birth, and its only the new birth that marks heaven as your home after you die.
 
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fhansen

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The only way you can be in God and remain, is to be born again.

Your theology of self effort does not cause the new birth, and its only the new birth that marks heaven as your home after you die.
Even as faith is a gift it's also an obligation, a choice that we can shirk. So our wills are involved to one degree or another from beginning to end. Which is the whole point to begin with. Since Eden on until this day God's been patiently working with man to turn him back to right choice, to alignment with His own will, without force. He wont force us to do the right thing, or to remain in that state. But to the extent that we do, our justice or righteousness exists intact and even increases. Absolutely impossible without grace, apart from God, but He still doesn't do it apart from us.

Because from the big picture His whole intent isn't to just save a portion of otherwise worthless wretches but to actually produce something here, something better than He began with, something truly great. And it doesn't happen without our participation. And that's why it's taken so long. It's all a work of His, of cultivating His crop, preparing it to blossom.
 
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pescador

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Atonement does most definitely not mean "at-one-ment"; there is no such thing. The word means "the concept of a person taking action to correct previous wrongdoing on their part." Therefore, the rest of your post, being based on a false meaning, means nothing.
 
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Sidon

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Even as faith is a gift it's also an obligation,.

Salvation is God's blood making you righteous.

That is not your obligation, that is God's Gift of Jesus on the Cross.

You obligation, is to "work out your salvation, in awe and wonder".
This is your discipleship.
Its the entire time you are saved, and are breathing whereby you learn how to exist as a Son of God, on this earth, according to the Spiritual Law of the Kingdom of God that is DEFINED as : being "under Grace" and not 'Under Law".
 
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Sidon

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As i said, if you use a non Christian Source, you will find the secular definition.

But when you are dealing with Salvation, then the "atonement", is God on the Cross, offering His Blood that Atones for your sin......so there is the secular idea, but in this Atonement, you have the BLOOD that is the CAUSE, and that results in a new birth of a person dead Spirit, that become "ONE With God", "In Christ"< and that is the At -ONE- Ment.

So, that is what the BLOOD Atonement CAUSES., and why.
 
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ripple the car

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I had always wondered about that, Liturgist. Because, honestly, you don’t sound like a Protestant. I kept wondering “why in the heck doesn’t Liturgist become Orthodox already?”, and to hear that you had been with the OCA for a while makes sense.
 
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fhansen

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Salvation is God's blood making you righteous.
Yes! Maybe you're getting it now. Jesus died so that we may be reconciled with God-and receive the authentic righteousness that flows only from that union. Then we must continue to live and walk in it. We aren't force to accept the gift of His shed blood; we aren't forced to believe; that's an option.
You obligation, is to "work out your salvation, in awe and wonder".
This is your discipleship.
Sure, and our salvation, as that verse in Phil 2 says and Rom 6:20-22 affirms:
"When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life."
 
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ozso

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You quoted JUDE.

Let me explain that verse.

There are ungodly people, led by the devil, who deceive by saying that when Grace is taught correctly, that this is "license" or 'licentiousness'".

It's plainly obvious Paul saw that objection coming when he wrote:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2
 
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ozso

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That's just wordplay used for effect. Like, whenever the Bible says "therefore" you should find out what it's there for.
 
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setst777

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Generally, you dont ask questions, setst777

You just show up on my Threads and post a very long personal theology that no one reads.

So, you are saying that, because I don't ask you many questions, then the couple questions I do ask you, you do not feel you have to answer?

The posts may seem long to you, but they are not. My responses are fairly short, but I quote Scripture as evidence.

I don't just quote a fraction of a sentence or a one line of Scripture as you do; rather, I quote the context with it. The Scriptures make up the bulk of my messages, which you have avoided and actually went out of your way to ignore.

Notice that I actually respond to your points, while you avoid direct dialogue and refuse to acknowledge the Scriptures given.

And then you make unfounded accusations against me, which had nothing to do with my responses.

And regarding your legalism you are teaching, that tries to teach that a person keeps themselves saved by never backsliding....well, that is just not true.

Unfounded accusations. Had you actually responded to what I wrote, and read my responses to you, you would not keep making false accusations.

This is the Grace of God as the "blood atonement".

What do these two Scriptures mean to you?

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
 
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setst777

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You quoted JUDE.

Let me explain that verse.

There are ungodly people, led by the devil, who deceive by saying that when Grace is taught correctly, that this is "license" or 'licentiousness'".

Exactly. Is that not what you are promoting?

For instance, I have shown you many Scriptures now, how a true Christian is a disciple of Lord Jesus, following Him. These only are saved.

In response, you say that is legalism, and that no matter how much we backslide or sin, we are still made perfect and righteous by the blood of Jesus.
 
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Ligurian

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Salvation is what Christ did for the WORLD, .. John 3:16, 2000 yrs ago.
He completed it. He said..>"it is FINISHED" just before He died.
Some bibles say "It is accomplished".
What is Finished?

What is Finished?
Answer: All that was necessary for Jesus to literally become
the Passover Lamb slain before the creation of the world.

The original Greek is in (parentheses)...

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be (ginomai) fulfilled.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be (ginomai) fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Ginomai is "generated", according to Strong's.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now (teleo) accomplished, that the scripture might be (teleioo) fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth.
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is (teleo) finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.

That this scripture might be fulfilled:

Exodus 12:21 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... 26 And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service? 27 that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."

This text proves that hyssop was needed for the service of the Passover.
Jesus came to fulfill all that was written of Him concerning His first advent.

Matthew 26:12-13 For in that she hath poured this ointment on My body, she did [it] for My burial. Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

This ointment is (myrrh). Myrrh and Frankinsense came from the wise men of (anatole) [Greece literally called Anatolia "the east"]... Smyrna, one of two blameless churches in Asia (anatolia), is (Myrrh). Frankinsense is (libanos), translated Lebanon.
 
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Sidon

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It's plainly obvious Paul saw that objection coming when he wrote:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2

Yes.

Not many believers recognize that Paul was defending at that time, what has now become known as "OSAS" or "eternal security".

See, Legalsim, which is the rejection of the Truth that Christ alone is the Savior, from beginning to end, is not a new theology.
JUDE talks about these ministers of darkness who went into churches to plant the idea that Grace is license, when its actually taught correctly.
That is the Devil FLIPPING Grace into Law and Commandments and self effort theology, by accusing Grace of being License to sin.
Amazing.
And Paul was dealing with these same types.
They went so far as to accuse Paul of teaching that we should sin so that Grace can come and deal with it.
 
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Sidon

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So, you are saying that, because I don't ask you many questions,

Lets try something new.
In your next post to me, dont cut and paste anything.
Just ask a few questions.
Write them.

Can you do it?
 
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Sidon

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In response, you say that is legalism, and that no matter how much we backslide or sin, we are still made perfect and righteous by the blood of Jesus.

Following Jesus is not how you go to heaven.
Salvation is how you go to heaven.
Salvation, is God on the Cross saving you, not you on the Cross trying to do it for yourself.
 
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