Salvation vs : service.

The Liturgist said:

I find the notion that there are two Gospels, one taught by our Lord and one by St. Paul, appalling, and for this reason @Sidon I have to confess I am troubled by you declaring “you only teach Paul.” Surely it would be better to teach all of the Scriptures in a Christocentric way, which is one thing the denominations I “chase” have in common (for the most part).

This takes us to another point - what is the basis for your teaching authority? Do you have an MDiv, like most clergy in major churches, or any kind of degree in theology, or were you ordained as a pastor, presbyter or minister by another teacher of Paul who shared your doctrinal views and was either a mentor, or a source of validation that your doctrine was consistent with whatever this movement is?

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I agree with you, Brother Liturgist,

There are not two Gospels in the New Testament. How unfortunate that so many of those claiming to be Christians are so lacking in spiritual understanding of the simple Gospel as presented to us in the New Testament.

1 Corinthians 3:4 (WEB) 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you fleshly?

Whatever authority or degree one may offer as evidence for his/her credibility does not wash, because we see so many, even instructors, pastors, elders, etc, within the Church who clearly are biased, and see the Scriptures only in light of their indoctrination from professed great knowledge, credentials, and wisdom.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:13-31 (WEB)
…13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one should say that I had baptized you into my own name. 16 (I also baptized the household of Stephanas; besides them, I don’t know whether I baptized any other.) 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the Good News—not in wisdom of words, so that the cross of Christ wouldn’t be made void. 18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are dying, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise. I will bring the discernment of the discerning to nothing.” [Isaiah 29:14]
…20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the lawyer of this world? Hasn’t God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.
...22 For Jews ask for signs, Greeks seek after wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God; 25 because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
…26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world that he might put to shame the things that are strong.
…28 God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that don’t exist, that he might bring to nothing the things that exist, 29 that no flesh should boast before God. 30 Because of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: 31 that, as it is written, “He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.” [Jeremiah 9:24]

Blessings, and continue the Good Work.

Ligurian said:

Enter Into Life

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Matt.22:37)
2. Thou shalt do no murder,
3. Thou shalt not commit adultery,
4. Thou shalt not steal,
5. Thou shalt not bear false witness,
6. Honour thy father and mother,
7. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matt.19:18)

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (pleroo) cram full. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be (ginomai) come into being. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousenss] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 23:25)

And Continue On With Jesus


*-5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
*-5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
*-5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Matthew 19:7-8)
5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
*-5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
*-5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
*-5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

________________
Deuteronomy 13:3 ... for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

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And historically the church has taught this since the beginning. Maybe I should know your answer-not sure tho- but do you think these directives are possible to observe without grace? Or how do you define the New Covenant?

Sidon said:

The Born again, are alive to God, "In Christ" and "dead to the law". This means that the law, which IS a curse to us, has been resolved by Christ who has "redeemed us from the Curse of THE LAW". So by being delivered from the "dominion of the law", we are now no longer judged or defined by the Law, which is the "curse".
We now exist here...."under Grace". This has become our spiritual dominion, as we are "dead to the law", or as Paul teachers... "reckon yourselves DEAD".... See, our old man, our adamic nature our sinful nature, has been "crucified with Christ" and we are risen with Christ in "newness of Life".
This "newness" is our "new Creation" "in Christ" that is who we have become, by being BORN AGAIN. We are now become "ONE WITH GOD< IN Christ".
This is now who we are...and never again are we to think of ourselves as a "sinner". We are now become...."as Christ IS, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD". This is why God tells you to "be in the world but not of it".... And that means how you understand who you have become, as the "new birth", a Child of the Light, BORN AGAIN.

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No one disagrees that we are saved from the curse of the Law by faith in Jesus, which results in a "New Life."

What does it mean by a new life?

You like Paul's Gospel so much, so what does Paul have to say about that New Life?

Romans 6:1-5 (WEB) 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For IF we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection

Sidon said:

No.

We are not saved by Faith.
Faith is not the Savior.
God on the Cross is THE Savior.
If you are trusting in FAITH, you are NOT Trusting in CHRIST.

Listen carefully.

God saves you THROUGH Faith.

God accepts Faith, TO SAVE YOU.

God is THE Savior, not faith.

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We are saved by faith in Lord Jesus. That is the Gospel. God only saves those who believe in His Son.

Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Acts 10:43
Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”

1 Peter 1:9
obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Mark 16:16
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

1 John 5:4
this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

John 3:15
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 20:31
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Sidon said:

The Born again, are alive to God, "In Christ" and "dead to the law". This means that the law, which IS a curse to us, has been resolved by Christ who has "redeemed us from the Curse of THE LAW". So by being delivered from the "dominion of the law", we are now no longer judged or defined by the Law, which is the "curse".
We now exist here...."under Grace". This has become our spiritual dominion, as we are "dead to the law", or as Paul teachers... "reckon yourselves DEAD".... See, our old man, our adamic nature our sinful nature, has been "crucified with Christ" and we are risen with Christ in "newness of Life".
This "newness" is our "new Creation" "in Christ" that is who we have become, by being BORN AGAIN. We are now become "ONE WITH GOD< IN Christ".
This is now who we are...and never again are we to think of ourselves as a "sinner". We are now become...."as Christ IS, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD". This is why God tells you to "be in the world but not of it".... And that means how you understand who you have become, as the "new birth", a Child of the Light, BORN AGAIN.

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"Born Again" is fully explained in Scripture. We are born again of the Spirit by faith.

And the arguments continue on a Christian forum over the position that salvation is through Christ alone.

Sidon said:

Ive taught about this in 10 Threads.
Maybe you should read them.
Then you'll know.

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Sidon, I see no reason to respond to you further. You are divisive, and you continually misrepresent what others write. You don't even remember what you wrote.

I am patient, but patience has its limits.

setst777 said:

I have thoroughly studied the Gospel by Paul, and I can say with complete confidence that Paul taught the same Gospel that Lord Jesus and the other Apostles taught.

The problem is when those reading the letters of Paul do not read them in context; rather, people use chapters within his letters to form doctrines, when those chapters were meant to flow with the other chapters, in context, to explain the complete thought.
I am not saying that is your problem, but my feeling is you have been turned against the Epistles of Paul to the churches because others are misusing and misquoting the Apostle Paul, in particular, to teach their own doctrines.



The free gift of salvation is free because we cannot earn, nor do we deserve, the privilege to inherit eternal life to be with God; rather, God graciously grants this salvation on the condition of a Gospel Faith in His Son, Lord Jesus.

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1) I've thoroughly studied Paul, and can't match what he taught with what Jesus teaches. What really interests me is all of the places that Paul could've quoted Jesus but doesn't.

2) Patient zero of the Biblical World could be anyone who thinks outside the box. He/she doesn't have to have been influenced by others, all they have to do is their own research.

3) Your free gift of salvation runs contrary to what Jesus teaches. Imputed righteousness is the polar oposite of what Jesus says. Nor does Jesus even imply that mankind is under the sin of Adam. What He does say is that the bringer of death has been judged... and that ain't Adam or Eve. Blaming mankind for the sins of the serpent is definitely odd.