Salvation vs : service.

[Ligurian]

Some specific laws He taught included the Ten Commandments, which, along with other of His commands, the ancient churches continued to affirm as obligatory to this day. And the greatest commandments, which He taught all the law and prophets hang on anyway, and again, which the ancient churches have continued to teach as obligatory. They, as Jesus, uphold the basic moral law which God wrote on tablets of stone apart from the rest of the Mosaic law.

Enter Into Life

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Matt.22:37)
2. Thou shalt do no murder,
3. Thou shalt not commit adultery,
4. Thou shalt not steal,
5. Thou shalt not bear false witness,
6. Honour thy father and mother,
7. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matt.19:18)

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (pleroo) cram full. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be (ginomai) come into being. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousenss] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 23:25)

And Continue On With Jesus


*-5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
*-5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
*-5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Matthew 19:7-8)
5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
*-5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
*-5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
*-5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

________________
Deuteronomy 13:3 ... for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

 

[Ligurian]

Paul is not saying the Gentiles were captives in Egypt; rather, as Paul stated, the disobedient Jews of that time are an example to the Church of what God detests, and so not to follow in their ways.

Does it really make sense to teach people things they may never have seen in order to keep them from doing that very thing? Isn't Paul the same guy who said the minute he heard a law he ran off to break it? I'm sorry, but Paul's mind makes no sense to me.

 

[Sidon]

Enter Into Life

You dont enter into the Spirit of God by a long list of self effort you just posted.
However, if you want to be a Buddhist or a Muslim, then, your gospel of works is on target.
Just realize, that when you teach the gospel of works, you are here.. Galatians 1:8

Paul says that the Gospel is heard, believed, and faith is counted as Righteousness.

That is to be born again.
When you are born again, you have entered INTO, Eternal life, and this same has begun to live in the born again.
"Christ in YOU< THE HOPE......of Glory".

Glory is Heaven.
And Christ is the Hope of Heaven.

 

[Sidon]

Isn't Paul the same guy who said the minute he heard a law he ran off to break it? I'm sorry, but Paul's mind makes no sense to me.

Had you read more of Paul, you would have discovered that when he said..>>"that which i would do, i dont do it, and that which i dont want to do, i do "...so, i see a LAW...

See that?
See that LAW?
That is.....>"the LAW is the POWER OF SIN">.
Christ came to "redeem us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

= Born again.

Enter Paul's Gospel. "the preaching of the Cross".

So, had you kept reading, you would have read where Paul explains how he found the TRUTH< which gave him this....."Christ ALWAYS Gives me THE Victory".

So, you are the problem, not Paul.
Believe it.

 

[setst777]

Does it really make sense to teach people things they may never have seen in order to keep them from doing that very thing? Isn't Paul the same guy who said the minute he heard a law he ran off to break it? I'm sorry, but Paul's mind makes no sense to me.

It really does make sense. No doubt Paul taught the Gentile Christians in Corinth about God's covenant with Israel, and how the unfaithfulness of many in Israel resulted in their being lost.

Paul, uses Israel as an example, saying: Yes, the Jews believed God as well, and followed the One (Christ) who was with them in a cloud by day, and a light by night to guide them. However, there faith became weak, and then rebelled against God in many sinful ways. Paul using Israel's unfaithfulness as an example, and admonition.

The 2nd question you posed refers to Romans 7. In Romans 7, Paul is showing us that, by faith alone, we cannot have victory in living out an obedient life of righteousness and love onto God. And so, in Romans 8 Paul shows that we have victory over the sinful nature by the Spirit dwelling in those who believe, to help and guide those who walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 (WEB)
3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[setst777]

Why would you think that any new Christian would not understand that after they are saved, they are supposed to live for God.

However, the baby Christian is often deceived by a dark light, who ruins their faith, by convincing them that they have to keep commandments and produced constant self effort, or they will lose their salvation.
So, when a person is trying to be good, and do a lot, so that God will keep them, then this person is "fallen from Grace" and is "in the Flesh".

Discipleship, is what we do because we have been eternally accepted by God, based in His shed blood.

When a dark light flips this Grace, into, "now here is the next step, so that you dont lose your salvation" then this person is controlled by the Devil.
See, its the devil who wants you under the commandments and the law, as if you are back in the Old Testament.

God does now want you there, and that is why He authored the New Testament, with His Blood that redeems you from all self effort to try to get God to accept you and keep you.

Growing in the faith, as a baby Christian, does not mean that you are allowed time to straddle the fence, living your life between two masters and think you are still saved.

Luke 9:62 (WEB) 62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for God’s Kingdom.”

Matthew 6:24 (WEB) 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

“Mammon” is a term used to imply idolizing, holding great value, in anything for the purpose of catering to our fleshly desires.

For instance, the rich man who came to Lord Jesus (Luke 18:18-25) certainly believed in Jesus, and desired the eternal life that was offered, but he idolized his wealth, and so was not fit for God’s Kingdom. You cannot claim faith in Lord Jesus, or claim you are growing in the faith, while you are still following after any of the things of this world. Sanctification is to be separate onto God from idolizing anything in this world.

Therefore, growing in the faith means to become more fruitful within the sanctification you committed to when you believed.

Growing in the faith is to become ever more fruitful and growing in wisdom against the forces of evil as you live by God’s Word and Spirit every day.

Growing in the faith must include sanctification as the only acceptable faith by which we are saved – that is the faith you are growing in. Any other faith that does not include sanctification is not the faith of the Gospel, and is of no value. There can be no Spiritual growth until, by repentance and faith, you commit to sanctifying your life to God.

Hebrews 12:14-18 (WEB)
14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.

Esau sold his birthright as firstborn for a bowl of stew. How much more value is Eternal Life as a son of God in His Kingdom? What sin are you willing to commit to give up your birthright? So faith is sanctifying ourselves to God.

Revelation 3:15-16 (WEB) 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing;’ and do not know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked

So a saving faith is one in which you sanctify (to be separate onto) yourself to God. These are the only ones the Lord accepts. Sanctification is the faith of the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

John 15:8-10 (WEB) 8 “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. 9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love.

Revelation 3:21 (WEB) 21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

 

[Sidon]

Paul using Israel's unfaithfulness as an example, and admonition.

You should study with me, by asking questions, instead of posting your theology, pretending to ask a question.
I can help you, setst777.


Listen....

God set up the "time of the Gentiles' with Paul as the Apostle TO the Gentile, for a REASON.

And what you wrote is not why Israel, is DECEIVED and LOST.

So, if you actually Study all this, you'll find that Paul says that Blindness came on Israel, because they '"""stumbled as the stumbling stone.""""
What is that stone?
That is the REVELATION that Peter had, that caused Jesus to define him as "rock".

Now notice...>"rock", is a "STONE".
And the rock, that Christ was talking about to Peter.....= is the REVELATION of HIM as MESSIAH.

That is what Peter said....."You are the SON OF GOD". = our MESSIAH.
That is the REVELATiON, that is the rock, and the """"STONE of OFFENSE."" that has the Jews, in a bad situation.

Let me show you how bad it is, as i know you have not been to Israel, have not lived there, and because i have, and do sometimes, i am familiar with Hebrews.
Let me tell you about RELIGIOUS Hebrews.....(Hebrews 10:26)
They BELIEVE the are married to the LAW.
Married to it.
So, when you try to talk to them about Jesus as Messiah, then they feel that to leave the Law, and go to Messiah is to commit ADULTERY.
See that?
See that CRAZY?
That is spiritual insanity, and so many of them have it.
Imagine how happy the DEVIL is about this. He uses the OT Law, as a TRAP to keep God's chosen from Their Messiah.
And he will have you chasing the law and commandments also..
That is what he does.

Listen...

The "stone" is the REVELATION of CHRIST as THE MESSIAH.

This is the "stumbling STONE" that is the "blindness" that stops "ISRAEL" from SEEING JESUS as Messiah.

The Jews are trying to get to God, and they are stumbling over CHRIST, as He is the ONLY WAY To God.
John 14:6

The Jews, just like the dark lights on this forum, are trying to Get to GOD by SELF EFFORT, and DEEDS, and COMMANDMENT KEEPING.

This is stumbling over the "stone".
Jesus is the "Cornerstone".

Now.....Look at these verses, and notice how the STUMBLING happens to both gentiles and jews...


Paul teaches..

"""
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being IGNORANT of God's righteousness, and going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness, = have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".

Faith is counted as Righteousness.
Justification by FAITH.
------------------------


Now, reader........did you just read that Christ is the END Of THE LAW....for Righteousness?

Yet are you are trying to keep the LAW and COMMANDMENTS to be right with God.?

Better go back and read the verses.

You are BLINDED.
See the verse?
Pauls says "IGNORANT" of God's Righteousness......

To be like that is to be "blinded by the God of this world" who wants you chasing self effort, and law, and commandments.
And that is exactly WRONG. And if you teach that you are here : Galatians 1:8

 

[Ligurian]

Jesus says that the Father's commandment is life everlasting, John 12:50.

John 14:15-17 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My words: and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Aren't you glad you're not under Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, Sidon?

Commandment keeping is not related to "The Gift of Salvation".

________________________________________
NOTE
___________________________________
Ligurian said: ↑
I'm not under the gospel to the gentiles,
___________________________________

_______________________________________
Sidon replied:

I agree.
You are definitely under the dominion of the law.
_______________________________________
How to walk in the Spirit.
________________________________________

I dont use Hebrew on USA Forums

hmmm...

And of course is the same reality found when you realize that if you dont speak Greek, and you show up on a christian forum trying to correct the English BIBLE with a language you dont read, then you are just being a fraud.

 

[setst777]

You should study with me, by asking questions, instead of posting your theology, pretending to ask a question.
I can help you, setst777.

I usually don't answer a question with a question. The normal reply to a question is to give a response to the question, which is what I did when I responded to you. Isn't that what we all were taught in English class in grade school?

Listen....
God set up the "time of the Gentiles' with Paul as the Apostle TO the Gentile, for a REASON.

And what you wrote is not why Israel, is DECEIVED and LOST.

So, if you actually Study all this, you'll find that Paul says that Blindness came on Israel, because they '"""stumbled as the stumbling stone.""""
What is that stone?
That is the REVELATION that Peter had, that caused Jesus to define him as "rock".

Now notice...>"rock", is a "STONE".
And the rock, that Christ was talking about to Peter.....= is the REVELATION of HIM as MESSIAH.

That is what Peter said....."You are the SON OF GOD". = our MESSIAH.
That is the REVELATiON, that is the rock, and the """"STONE of OFFENSE."" that has the Jews, in a bad situation.

Let me show you how bad it is, as i know you have not been to Israel, have not lived there, and because i have, and do sometimes, i am familiar with Hebrews.
Let me tell you about RELIGIOUS Hebrews.....(Hebrews 10:26)
They BELIEVE the are married to the LAW.
Married to it.
So, when you try to talk to them about Jesus as Messiah, then they feel that to leave the Law, and go to Messiah is to commit ADULTERY.
See that?
See that CRAZY?
That is spiritual insanity, and so many of them have it.
Imagine how happy the DEVIL is about this. He uses the OT Law, as a TRAP to keep God's chosen from Their Messiah.
And he will have you chasing the law and commandments also..
That is what he does.

Listen...

The "stone" is the REVELATION of CHRIST as THE MESSIAH.

This is the "stumbling STONE" that is the "blindness" that stops "ISRAEL" from SEEING JESUS as Messiah.

The Jews are trying to get to God, and they are stumbling over CHRIST, as He is the ONLY WAY To God.
John 14:6

The Jews, just like the dark lights on this forum, are trying to Get to GOD by SELF EFFORT, and DEEDS, and COMMANDMENT KEEPING.

This is stumbling over the "stone".
Jesus is the "Cornerstone".

Now.....Look at these verses, and notice how the STUMBLING happens to both gentiles and jews...


Paul teaches..

"""
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they being IGNORANT of God's righteousness, and going about to establish THEIR OWN righteousness, = have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".

Faith is counted as Righteousness.
Justification by FAITH.
------------------------


Now, reader........did you just read that Christ is the END Of THE LAW....for Righteousness?

Yet are you are trying to keep the LAW and COMMANDMENTS to be right with God.?

Better go back and read the verses.

You are BLINDED.
See the verse?
Pauls says "IGNORANT" of God's Righteousness......

To be like that is to be "blinded by the God of this world" who wants you chasing self effort, and law, and commandments.
And that is exactly WRONG. And if you teach that you are here : Galatians 1:8

Israel stumbled over the Rock because they sought salvation, not by faith, but by works.

Had they truly kept their faith in God, they would have continued to follow in obedience as God guided them through Moses and the other Prophets.

 

[Sidon]

Growing in the faith, as a baby Christian, does not mean that you are allowed time to straddle the fence, living your life between two masters and think you are still saved.
.

If you are born again, you are saved.
If you later are trying to get God to accept you and keep you, then you are fallen from Grace, or you are not born again, at all.

You keep talking about Discipleship, and that is not a problem, unless you teach it as how to stay saved or why you are saved.
When you do that, you are spitting on the Cross, and defying God's Grace, and this happens.
Galatians 1:8

So, teach Salvation, only as God's blood .............and only teach discipleship as what the born again do because we are born again.

Born again, is the only proof of Salvation.

Keeping commandments, and doing good works, can be faked.
The devil's own fake them, constantly.
The devil's own talk about them endlessly, as its their religion, pretending to be Christianity.
You read about "dark lights" on my 2 Threads that expose them.

See,... you can't fake being born again, as God has caused that to happen.
But a person can fake the fruit of christianity.

The fruit of the lips of the born again, are found here..... =they dont obsess on commandments and works, as HOW God saves you or WHY God keeps you.

How do you know if you are a Legalist?
You will believe that you can lose your salvation.

And how do you know if you are a deceived dark light?
You will join Christian forums, and fight against the Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God and try to convince real believers that they can lose their salvation.

Is this anyone you know?

 

[setst777]

If you are born again, you are saved.
If you later are trying to get God to accept you and keep you, then you are fallen from Grace, or you are not born again, at all.

You keep talking about Discipleship, and that is not a problem, unless you teach it as how to stay saved or why you are saved.
When you do that, you are spitting on the Cross, and defying God's Grace, and this happens.
Galatians 1:8

So, teach Salvation, only as God's blood .............and only teach discipleship as what the born again do because we are born again.

Born again, is the only proof of Salvation.

Keeping commandments, and doing good works, can be faked.
The devil's own fake them, constantly.
The devil's own talk about them endlessly, as its their religion, pretending to be Christianity.
You read about "dark lights" on my 2 Threads that expose them.

See,... you can't fake being born again, as God has caused that to happen.
But a person can fake the fruit of christianity.

The fruit of the lips of the born again, are found here..... =they dont obsess on commandments and works, as HOW God saves you or WHY God keeps you.

How do you know if you are a Legalist?
You will believe that you can lose your salvation.

And how do you know if you are a deceived dark light?
You will join Christian forums, and fight against the Paul's Gospel of the Grace of God and try to convince real believers that they can lose their salvation.

Is this anyone you know?

When you do that, you are spitting on the Cross, and defying God's Grace, and this happens.

We are saved by faith onto obedience to God.

Hebrews 10:29-30 (WEB) 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.29 How much worse punishment do you think he will be judged worthy of who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the Blood of The Covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and
has insulted the Spirit of Grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will repay,” says the Lord. [Deuteronomy 32:35] Again, “The Lord will judge HIS people.” [Deuteronomy 32:36; Psalms 135:14]

 

[Ligurian]

Its your theology that is keeping you from the Truth.

Try this. Paul said that Abraham is the "father of our faith"., as "Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted to him AS Righteousness".

See that?
That is "Justification by Faith".

Welcome to Paul.

If verse 3 had not happened, would verse 12 have happened? No.
If verse 8 means Abraam didn't have to keep God's commandment, would verse 12 still have happened if Abraam refused? No.

Genesis 22:3 And Abraam rose up in the morning and saddled his ass, and he took with him two servants, and Isaac his son, and having split wood for a whole-burnt-offering, he arose and departed, and came to the place of which God spoke to him, ...
8 And Abraam said, God will provide himself a sheep for a whole-burnt-offering, my son. ...
12 And He said, Lay not thine hand upon the child, neither do anything to him, for now I know that thou fearest God, and for My sake thou hast not spared thy beloved son.

Therefore, I'm welcome to James and Jesus.

James 2:21-23 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

John 15:14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

 

[Ligurian]

I understand the issue you are raising, but please read my reply in response to your concerns.

You referred to Ephesians 2:8-9, but you have to read through to verse 10 to get the full context Paul is conveying.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (WEB) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Paul is saying that no works we can do can justify us before God. However, if one truly believes in God, then, by faith, we have repented, and now live to obey God. Those who do not believe will not obey God.

In fact, a person cannot even receive the Holy Spirit until they first believe in (to love) Lord Jesus demonstrated by obeying Him.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:15-17 (WEB). . . 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

Only by Faith, like unto Abraham, does God justify. God accredits righteousness to those who believe.

Genesis 15:6 (NIV)
6 Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness.

So, what does faith mean? That is the question. To have faith in God is to love God. In the New Testament Gospel, a true faith in God is to believe in (to listen to and follow) His Son.

Faith includes repentance, which is demonstrated by a complete change of mind and purpose for living). The believer denies the old life of selfish ambitions, and now commits to become a slave of God, holy (being separate or sanctified) onto God for the purpose of obeying Him, living a righteous life of Love. This is what Paul taught throughout all his letters. For instance, see:

Romans 6; Romans 13:11-14; Romans 12:1-2; 1 Corinthians 9:22-27; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-2; 2 Corinthians 13:5; Galatians 5:13-25; Galatians 6:7-9; Ephesians 5:1-20; Philippians 2:14-16; Philippians 3:7-12; Colossians 3:1-17; 1 Timothy 4:16; 1 Timothy 5:11; 2 Timothy 2:19; Hebrews 3:6; Hebrews 3:12-15; Hebrews 3:14; Hebrews 12:14-17, and so many more Passages of instruction all through Paul’s letters.



Yes; however, the “US” that Lord Jesus is telling to keep His commandments are those who believe in Him.

Do we not see all through the Gospels how the Lord Jesus commands and admonishes the people to repent and to believe in Him to receive eternal life?

Lord Jesus clarifies what He means by “believe” by saying that those who believe are the same ones who are His disciples, which is, to listen to and follow Him, obeying all things He commands of us.

Faith is demonstrated by following Jesus, resulting in eternal life. This is the same exact teaching of The Apostle Paul.



Many Christians say they have faith in "Jesus," but will not demonstrate their faith by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love. That is not the faith of the Gospel, nor of the Apostle Paul.

• Those who put their faith in Lord Jesus will listen to Him, and will follow Him.
• An unbeliever will not listen to the Words of Lord Jesus, and will not follow Him. Faith is demonstrated in obedience.
• Unbelief is demonstrated in resisting God, and refusing to follow Him.
• This is the teaching of Lord Jesus, and is the same teaching of the Apostle Paul.

Blessings

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Maybe you can logic your way past this gulf, too, but I cannot. I no longer even try.

Jesus says we are to call nobody our teacher Matthew 23:8 because we have only one shepherd John 10:16, and if we love Him we will keep His commandments John 14:15 which are His Father's commandments John 12:50, for without perfect works we are in danger Revelation 3:2... therefore, "blessed are they that do His commandments" Revelation 22:14... (yes, I'm aware of the differences between the KJV and the forum's version.)

 

[Ligurian]

Why would you think that any new Christian would not understand that after they are saved, they are supposed to live for God.

However, the baby Christian is often deceived by a dark light, who ruins their faith, by convincing them that they have to keep commandments and produced constant self effort, or they will lose their salvation.
So, when a person is trying to be good, and do a lot, so that God will keep them, then this person is "fallen from Grace" and is "in the Flesh".

Discipleship, is what we do because we have been eternally accepted by God, based in His shed blood.

When a dark light flips this Grace, into, "now here is the next step, so that you dont lose your salvation" then this person is controlled by the Devil.
See, its the devil who wants you under the commandments and the law, as if you are back in the Old Testament.

God does now want you there, and that is why He authored the New Testament, with His Blood that redeems you from all self effort to try to get God to accept you and keep you.

wow... is that what you really wanted to say?

Because these words belong to Jesus:

Matthew 5:19, Mark 10:19, John 14:21, John 14:23-24, John 15:10, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12.
_______________
Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, 17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

 

[Ligurian]

Good moot point.
I have not said Luke was anything.

Then, we're even because I wasn't talking to you.

 

[setst777]

Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Maybe you can logic your way past this gulf, too, but I cannot. I no longer even try.

Jesus says we are to call nobody our teacher Matthew 23:8 because we have only one shepherd John 10:16, and if we love Him we will keep His commandments John 14:15 which are His Father's commandments John 12:50, for without perfect works we are in danger Revelation 3:2... therefore, "blessed are they that do His commandments" Revelation 22:14... (yes, I'm aware of the differences between the KJV and the forum's version.)

Brother, I did respond to Romans 7 in the following:

The 2nd question you posed refers to Romans 7. In Romans 7, Paul is showing us that, by faith alone, we cannot have victory in living out an obedient life of righteousness and love onto God. And so, in Romans 8 Paul shows that we have victory over the sinful nature by the Spirit dwelling in those who believe, to help and guide those who walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 (WEB)
3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Jesus says we are to call nobody our teacher Matthew 23:8 because we have only one shepherd John 10:16

Even you must admit that what you are proposing is unreasonable. How do we spread the Gospel to all nations, and teach them all things that Lord Jesus commands of us, unless we follow Christ Jesus command to instruct others in the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Lord Jesus sent out the Disciples to instruct people in Gospel [Matthew 10:1-42].

Lord Jesus teaches about the faithful and wise servant who will instruct the Church:

Matthew 24:45-47 (NIV)
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

The Gospel will not go out to the nations, unless faithful Christians teach others about the Gospel of Christ. Call them what you will: instructors, pastors, elders, apostles, evangelists, whatever. They all have their place.

 

[Ligurian]

You dont enter into the Spirit of God by a long list of self effort you just posted.
However, if you want to be a Buddhist or a Muslim, then, your gospel of works is on target.
Just realize, that when you teach the gospel of works, you are here.. Galatians 1:8

Paul says that the Gospel is heard, believed, and faith is counted as Righteousness.

That is to be born again.
When you are born again, you have entered INTO, Eternal life, and this same has begun to live in the born again.
"Christ in YOU< THE HOPE......of Glory".

Glory is Heaven.
And Christ is the Hope of Heaven.

Your Galatians 1:8 threat won't work on me. Don't you remember? I'm not under the apostle to the gentiles. I'm under the Galilean Apostles to the circumcision.
That'd be really funny if I didn't know the Amorites spoke Hebrew.

Aaaannyway...

You have Colossians 1:27
but ................................................. waaaaayyy over here, I have Matthew 13:11.
and never the twain shall meet, because
you keep trying to mix the two gospels together,
like you think they're epoxy and resin .................... but really, they're oil and water.

 

[Ligurian]

Brother, I did respond to Romans 7 in the following:





Even you must admit that what you are proposing is unreasonable. How do we spread the Gospel to all nations, and teach them all things that Lord Jesus commands of us, unless we follow Christ Jesus command to instruct others in the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20 (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Lord Jesus sent out the Disciples to instruct people in Gospel [Matthew 10:1-42].

Lord Jesus teaches about the faithful and wise servant who will instruct the Church:

Matthew 24:45-47 (NIV)
45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

The Gospel will not go out to the nations, unless faithful Christians teach others about the Gospel of Christ. Call them what you will: instructors, pastors, elders, apostles, evangelists, whatever. They all have their place.

Depends on which gospel you're spreading, I suppose.
Clearly, what Paul taught as gospel isn't at all what Jesus could have taught.
Nor are all humans on earth gentiles... a fact that seems to escape some people.

I, for one, know that the 10-north-Israel tribes were scattered among the nations millennia ago, and we see them coming home after the war, in the Prophets. But since they've been protected from being found and killed off ages ago, because people didn't make images of them when the image-making would have been worth something, we don't know what they look like today. We can speculate and surmise until the cows we don't even own come wandering to our door, but we don't know who's who and that's a good thing... Revelation 7:4 being what it is. So we have to follow our own heart. And if the notion of free grace trips your trigger, then by all means embrace it. But if you hear nothing but Jesus' voice... shrug and smile.

And, yeah, I know you talked about Romans... been there, done that... not interested... moved on. Keeping both gospels, to me, is like eating foods sacrificed to idols.

 

[The Liturgist]

I find the notion that there are two Gospels, one taught by our Lord and one by St. Paul, appalling, and for this reason @Sidon I have to confess I am troubled by you declaring “you only teach Paul.” Surely it would be better to teach all of the Scriptures in a Christocentric way, which is one thing the denominations I “chase” have in common (for the most part).

This takes us to another point - what is the basis for your teaching authority? Do you have an MDiv, like most clergy in major churches, or any kind of degree in theology, or were you ordained as a pastor, presbyter or minister by another teacher of Paul who shared your doctrinal views and was either a mentor, or a source of validation that your doctrine was consistent with whatever this movement is?

 

[setst777]

Depends on which gospel you're spreading, I suppose.

I agree. That is the main problem of relying on someone to proclaim and teach the Gospel. However, that is the way Lord Jesus has designed for the Gospel to be made known. I guess that is why we are also commanded to defend The Faith, once for all entrusted to the saints.

Clearly, what Paul taught as gospel isn't at all what Jesus could have taught.

Nor are all humans on earth gentiles... a fact that seems to escape some people.

Thank you for you reply.

Paul and Barnabas were sent forth, with laying on of hands, by the Church to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. They were not sent to preach a different Gospel.

I have thoroughly studied the Gospel by Paul, and I can say with complete confidence that Paul taught the same Gospel that Lord Jesus and the other Apostles taught.

The problem is when those reading the letters of Paul do not read them in context; rather, people use chapters within his letters to form doctrines, when those chapters were meant to flow with the other chapters, in context, to explain the complete thought.

I am not saying that is your problem, but my feeling is you have been turned against the Epistles of Paul to the churches because others are misusing and misquoting the Apostle Paul, in particular, to teach their own doctrines.

I, for one, know that the 10-north-Israel tribes were scattered among the nations millennia ago, and we see them coming home after the war, in the Prophets. But since they've been protected from being found and killed off ages ago, because people didn't make images of them when the image-making would have been worth something, we don't know what they look like today. We can speculate and surmise until the cows we don't even own come wandering to our door, but we don't know who's who and that's a good thing... Revelation 7:4 being what it is. So we have to follow our own heart. And if the notion of free grace trips your trigger, then by all means embrace it. But if you hear nothing but Jesus' voice... shrug and smile.

The free gift of salvation is free because we cannot earn, nor do we deserve, the privilege to inherit eternal life to be with God; rather, God graciously grants this salvation on the condition of a Gospel Faith in His Son, Lord Jesus.

And, as I have been communicating with copious Scripture, that Gospel Faith, if truly genuine, is demonstrated by repentance:

1. Denying, dying to, renouncing, putting to death the old life living as slaves to sinful passions, and then
2. Begin a new life and purpose for living, which is to take up our cross and follow Lord Jesus into a holy life of righteousness and love. That is what Baptism represents.

By this faith commitment, Lord Jesus, though the Spirit, comes to dwell in the believer to give the believer freedom from sin's powerful control over our mind, and then the Spirit guides the believer into that new life of righteousness and love, but only as the believer continues in the faith, demonstrated by a continual following Lord Jesus, which means to walk by His Spirit.

The Faith, as described is the only faith that saves. This is what Lord Jesus taught, and this is the same Gospel that the Apostle Paul taught.

And, yeah, I know you talked about Romans... been there, done that... not interested... moved on. Keeping both gospels, to me, is like eating foods sacrificed to idols.

That is fine. I can respect your choice. We are still just as much Brothers in Christ by a Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus whether you, or I, reject or accept Paul’s letters.

Blessings