Salvation is an Experience

[Soyeong]

It may be an experience (by your definition) but it is an experience that happens in a moment of time.

As long as it takes for a person to here that is is faith in The Messiah, that is how a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life. To here that and understand this promise and then to believe it is true. When that occurs in a person, then this person is born again and becomes a child of God.

Some people because of poor instruction/teaching have to wade through a lot of incorrect information. So for that person it may take a while to actually find the truth. While others find Eternal Life quite quickly and believe with out much searching.

All by God's grace the long road and the short path.

As 5:24 states when a person believes in The Messiah they cross over from death to life. It does not say they will eventually cross over if they do this or that or even endure to the end. The verse guaranties at the moment of faith, the believer crosses over from death to life.

The experience of knowing God and Jesus is an ongoing relationship. In John 6:40, those who believe in Messiah will have eternal life and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in and know the Messiah, while in 1 John 3:4-10, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to it are not born again as children of God. Believing in in him who sent him is an ongoing action. It's like we are appliances and there is a house with unlimited electricity, so we have eternal life for as long as we remained plugged into the outlet, which is the source of life.

 

[fhansen]

Our salvation is from sin

What is sometimes confused is the notion of whether or not we’re only freed from the consequences of sin, by having faith, or whether we’re freed from sin and given the Spirit by which we can overcome it, by having faith, such that the consequence: death, can no longer have power over us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The experience of knowing God and Jesus is an ongoing relationship. In John 6:40, those who believe in Messiah will have eternal life and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in and know the Messiah

This is wrong logic...

There is a difference between entering into the blessings of the Kingdom by obedience and being adopted into the Kingdom by faith. This is a distinction you fail to make.

 

[Soyeong]

What is sometimes confused is the notion of whether or not we’re only freed from the consequences of sin, by having faith, or whether we’re freed from sin and given the Spirit by which we can overcome it, by having faith, such that the consequence: death, can no longer have power over us.

Our salvation would be incomplete if were only from the consequences of sin while we continued to live in sin, so there is an present tense aspect of our salvation. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation id described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself both to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.

 

[Soyeong]

This is wrong logic...

There is a difference between entering into the blessings of the Kingdom by obedience and being adopted into the Kingdom by faith. This is a distinction you fail to make.

What is that difference? The Bible frequently connects our faith in God with our obedience to Him or that connects our unbelief with our disobedience, such as in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is on of the weightier matters of the law. In James 2:18, he said that he would show his faith by his works. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying His commands. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is also an example of works. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience is referred to break faith. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to put our faith in God's law is to put our faith in God.

In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, in Psalms 119:160, the sum of God's word is truth, in John 1:14, the word of God became flesh and dwelt among us, and in John 14:6, Jesu said that he is the way, the truth, and the life, so he was claiming to be the living embodiment of God's law, which is evidenced by the fact that he lived in sinless obedience to it. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, so he is the personification of God's nature expressed by the law, or in other words he is the physical manifestation of the law, so obedience to the law of which he is the living embodiment is the way to believe in the nature of who he is, or in other words, the way to have faith in him.

 

[servant7777]

What is that difference? The Bible frequently connects our faith in God with our obedience to Him or that connects our unbelief with our disobedience, such as in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is on of the weightier matters of the law.

Does anyone agree that the key scripture Soyeong is quoting, is misunderstood by him, Matthew 23:23 ?

Soyeong can find a lot of verses in the old testament that speak about mercy as told in Matthew 23:23. But the point he would be misunderstanding is, that mercy was reserved from Israel, so too was judgment, look at the very words of the Lord, the Lord will be gracious to them( to Israel) when He will be exalted, then He can have mercy on them, the God of judgement ( before this Israel cant know mercy in the law, because God has not shown them what His mercy and judgement is yet.





Isaiah 30:18 And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the Lord is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.( Isaiah 55:7)

Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.





Faith needs to be revealed to Israel too.

Look at the TESTIMONY. God will have mercy upon Judah, ( show Judah what mercy is, until then they cannot know) but not by ow, nor battle, horses or horsemen ( all that Israel used to know of being saved by God) but soon would see a new way of being saved by the Lord their God. Zechariah continues this. Not by might, nor by power, but by His Spirit, and that is the Lords grace soon to be.

Now Micah tells of the performance of this from the Lord, of course it is what God promised to Abraham, which was the mercy to Abraham.

Immediately in the new testament this is TESTIFIED, as been fulfilled. God now ( through John the Baptist then Jesus our Lord) helps Israel through the mercy promised to Abraham ( not promised in the law Romans 4:13, BUT THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH)

To perform the mercy promised to the Fathers ( to Abraham) the oath which the Lord had sworn to Abraham, of being delivered to then serve God in Holiness and righteousness. ( not promised in the law Romans 4:13, BUT THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH.)

Giving knowledge of salvation ( the knowledge of Gods mercy faith and judgement only then revealed to all) by the remission of our sins ( the faith of Christ giving His life for us to set us free from the curse of the law. ( Galatians 3:13)

The tender mercy of God was Him visiting Israel ( to give them knowledge of faith, and mercy and the loving judgment of God) to give light to those in darkness ( all are in darkness) to guide our feet to the way of peace ( nobody who cant see, can know where peace is until guided into it by the faith of Jesus Christ)





Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Zechariah 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

Micah 7:20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

Luke 1:54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Luke 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.






Look at Soyeong misunderstanding again. He affirms ( wrongly) that Israel can have knowledge of what judgment, mercy and faith are in the law. ( but the promise of Gods mercy for the knowledge of mercy, is NOT PROMISED IN THE LAW. Romans 4:13, BUT THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH THROUGH CHRIST.)

Also we were TESTIFIED, how it is not by might or power, not Israel saved by horses and horsemen, but saved through His Spirit, which is then by the Lord their God. Titus 3 continues this, how we all are NOT SAVED by works of righteousness we ( Israel had done in the law) BUT ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US ( by the Holy Ghost as TESTIFIED.)

Howbeit, Israel are IGNORANT ( being without faith in the law, as Gods mercy was not through a promise in the law but through the righteousness which is of faith, and the law is then not of faith. Galatians 3:12) of Gods righteousness ( IGNORANT OF GOD PERFORMING THE MERCY PROMISED TO THE FATHERS, WHICH WAS NOT IN THE LAW, as the law is NOT OF FAITH.)

Then we understand ( not misunderstand as Soyeong.) that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness ( through the righteousness of Gods fulfilling of the promise of righteousness by faith, Romans 4:13.) and that is God through His mercy begetting us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. ( Christ crucified is faith, law does not fulfil or give knowledge of that promise, only Christ gave that knowledge of faith, mercy and the judgment of the Lord, through His death and rising again to life, which is the grace and love of God to every one that believes.)





Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[servant7777]

We know Messianic s and Israel believe in the law, that is WHY they try to teach law to the Gentile believers.

But how silly is it for those same Gentile believers, to consider that when we read below Romans 7, of Paul speaking about the law, to believe that the law is still active, as the Messianic s an those in Judaism believe and follow ?

Stop with the vanity, please. If Gentile believers want a discussion with a Messianic believer who teaches law, as Judaism are yet in the law, then of course you have to begin to acknowledge that all these times Paul speaks of the law, it is a law that is waxed old ( get a beginning of sense please.

That also is when we were in the flesh ( we no longer are to believe we are in the flesh)

When we were in the flesh, ( carnal) what we would not do ( the works of the flesh) we do.

The law was spirit, but we are carnal. ( flesh, doing the works of the flesh we would not do)

But those led of the spirit ( of Christ) are NOT UNDER THE LAW.

No longer sold under sin ( no longer in the flesh, no longer under the law of course)

To no longer live the rest of our time in the flesh, doing the works of the flesh ( when we were in the flesh and under the law. But if we be led of the Spirit, WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW. The Spirit is against the flesh, against the law, and the flesh, the law, is lusts against the Spirit) as we can not do the things we would ( IF NOT LED BY THE SPIRIT, AND YET UNDER THE LAW)





Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

 

[d taylor]

The experience of knowing God and Jesus is an ongoing relationship. In John 6:40, those who believe in Messiah will have eternal life and in Matthew 19:17, the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in and know the Messiah, while in 1 John 3:4-10, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor known him, and those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to it are not born again as children of God. Believing in in him who sent him is an ongoing action. It's like we are appliances and there is a house with unlimited electricity, so we have eternal life for as long as we remained plugged into the outlet, which is the source of life.

There is not two (or more) ways to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

One way, one condition required by God.
That is faith in The Messiah.

 

[fhansen]

Our salvation would be incomplete if were only from the consequences of sin while we continued to live in sin, so there is an present tense aspect of our salvation. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation id described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself both to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.

Yes, and yet righteousness remains optional for a believer, and he can and should grow in it. Purification from sin depends on a change of heart and repentance, and this may be necessary even after one comes to faith. The point is that man is still obligated to be righteous under the new covenant, but he comes to that righteousness via faith, now in communion with God, living by the Spirit, under grace to the extent that he remains in Christ. One cannot be in Christ and walk in darkness at the same time.

 

[Soyeong]

There is not two (or more) ways to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

One way, one condition required by God.
That is faith in The Messiah.

I agree that the only way to receive God's gift of eternal life salvation is by faith in the Messiah, so when he said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17), then that means that the experience of living in obedience to them is the way to have faith in him. Likewise, in Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Luke 10:25-28, obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life is Christ, which is the gift of God, so the experience of living in obedience to God's commandments is itself the content of His gift of eternal life. In revelation 22:14, those who obey God's commandments will be given access to the Tree of Life. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him, and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus, so the fact that the only way to enter eternal life is by faith in the Messiah, then that means that the experience of living in obedience to God's law is the way to live by faith in the Messiah.

This would also be while there are many verses that connect our faith in the Messiah with our obedience to God's commandments, such as Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience is referred to as breaking faith.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, and yet righteousness remains optional for a believer, and he can and should grow in it. Purification from sin still depends on a change of heart and repentance, and this may be necessary even after one comes to faith.

In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, so righteousness is not optional for a believer. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works that he did, in Galatians 3:26-29, it equates being children of Abraham with being children of God in Christ through faith, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. A chip off of the old block is someone who has the same character or nature as their father, so that is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God insofar as the Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so that is also the sense that we are sons of God when we are partaking in his nature through following his example by walking in the same way he walked, which is why those who do not practice righteousness are not children of God. The fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature, so that is also why in Romans 8:4-14 that those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law.

 

[servant7777]

I agree that the only way to receive God's gift of eternal life salvation is by faith in the Messiah, so when he said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17), then that means that the experience of living in obedience to them is the way to have faith in him. .

Soyeong: "so when he said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17), then that means that the experience of living in obedience to them is the way to have faith in him."



You are comparing natural with natural.

Try instead comparing Spiritual with Spiritual.



Why did Jesus say in Matthew 19, that the rich man should sell and give all his riches away ( to enter the Kingdom of Heaven/ to have treasure in Heaven and that this would mean He can THEN FOLLOW CHRIST?


Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.




The answer was already in the scriptures that, Israel had.

Because that rich man really had nothing ( in the law) and he being poor did not hear the rebuke ( but went away sorrowful instead)

The ransom of a rich man are his riches. Jesus ransomed us ( Isaiah 35:10. Jeremiah 31:11 from the power of the grave by being a ransom for us, even though He was rich (Jesus is the rich man) the ransom of a mans life are his riches, so Jesus became poor to make us rich.





Proverbs 13:7 There is that maketh himself rich, yet hath nothing: there is that maketh himself poor, yet hath great riches.
8 The ransom of a man's life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.

2 Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.



Why cant the rich man enter who does keep the law ?

Because he did not have faith that Jesus is the rich man who gave His life a ransom for us and trusted in his own riches and his own keeping of the law as testified.

Israel may have a zeal for God, but it is not according to knowledge which is the knowledge of Christ for faith, which is the end of the law.




Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[d taylor]

I agree that the only way to receive God's gift of eternal life salvation is by faith in the Messiah, so when he said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17), then that means that the experience of living in obedience to them is the way to have faith in him. Likewise, in Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Luke 10:25-28, obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life is Christ, which is the gift of God, so the experience of living in obedience to God's commandments is itself the content of His gift of eternal life. In revelation 22:14, those who obey God's commandments will be given access to the Tree of Life. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him, and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus, so the fact that the only way to enter eternal life is by faith in the Messiah, then that means that the experience of living in obedience to God's law is the way to live by faith in the Messiah.

This would also be while there are many verses that connect our faith in the Messiah with our obedience to God's commandments, such as Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience is referred to as breaking faith.

I simply do not agree with your definition of faith, which from what i have gathered from your post.
Is defined as, faith is obedience and it looks like you are saying obedience to the commandments.

I define faith as a conviction something is true. In the case of The Bible, as applied to receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.

It is the conviction that God's promise, that anyone who trust in The Messiah will receive God''s free gift of Eternal Life and becomes a born again child of God.

 

[servant7777]

Likewise, in Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life.

First they repent, by believing in the rising of Christ, then we conclude this:



Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[servant7777]

In Luke 10:25-28, obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life. .

How do we love God and love our neighbour without first believing in the proven love of God. ( Israel in the law, are incapable of knowing what the love of God is by not believing in Christ dying and rising again, which is the greatest love seen to be believed in by the world without the law)



1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[servant7777]

I In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life is Christ, which is the gift of God, so the experience of living in obedience to God's commandments is itself the content of His gift of eternal life.

Look again and see thew words stated. They obeyed the doctrine delivered to them ( the testimony was believed among them of Christ rising from the dead for our sins)



Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[servant7777]

In revelation 22:14, those who obey God's commandments will be given access to the Tree of Life. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him, and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus, so the fact that the only way to enter eternal life is by faith in the Messiah, then that means that the experience of living in obedience to God's law is the way to live by faith in the Messiah.

You again miss the part that cant be missed, how they keep the commandments ( of Christ) is through having the testimony of Jesus Christ( His dying and rising for our sins)


Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



Now Jesus taught the way to know Him, and it is by the obedience Christ alone did ( Moses did not do it) to the death.




John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

 

[fhansen]

In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, so righteousness is not optional for a believer.

What I'm saying is that a believer can still turn back away from God, and to the flesh. In the process they'll be rejecting love of God while possibly believing.
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 13

 

[servant7777]

This would also be while there are many verses that connect our faith in the Messiah with our obedience to God's commandments, such as Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. In James 2:18, he would show his faith by his works. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is an example of works. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Hebrews 3:18-19, unbelief is equated with disobedience. In Numbers 5:6, disobedience is referred to as breaking faith.

The matters of the law are to hear the law and the prophets that testified of the mercy and faith and judgement God was sending in the form of the Messiah, but they didn't understand and don't now.


What are the commandments of God in the faith of Christ ?

All fulfilled in this as testified..



Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.



In Romans 3, the law that is established is the one told already, all fulfilled in loving our neighbour as ourselves, then read and see we bear one another's burdens to fulfil that law of Christ( love our neighbour as ourselves)

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.




James 2 shows faith by our works, and what is the work of God???????


John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.




In Hebrews 12, they were not made perfect without us, as they did not have the knowledge that perfect faith is to believe in the perfect sacrifice of Christ which is believing in the love of God so we can also love our neighbour the same way ( fulfilling the law in one word)

 

[servant7777]

In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, so righteousness is not optional for a believer. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works that he did, in Galatians 3:26-29, it equates being children of Abraham with being children of God in Christ through faith, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked.

Those who break the law ( the righteousness of the law is to be fulfilled in us) have no faith in the righteousness of Christ.)

Abraham received a promise of faith, that is the work that God completed.

Children of Abraham is as told, to believe Christ rose from the dead.




Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;


Romans 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.