Salvation Cannot be Lost

[FreeGrace2]

How do you tell Jesus' sheep from all other sheep?

Why do I need to? All I can do is observe people to see who follows the Bible and who doesn't. And guess what: there are unbelievers who act better than some believers.

But I know you won't believe that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've already given you ample evidence from scripture multiple times, but since you can't stand to think you might be wrong

I'm just amazed that you are so comfortable with possibly being wrong.

you don't even consider it, you just keep harping on one verse, while ignoring that the verses in the passage explain WHO is given eternal life

lol. I guess you don't even bother to read my posts then. You want to see verses that explain WHO is given eternal life? OK, here goes.

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So, please tell me what these verses say about who possesses eternal life.

Lesson over.

and it's conditional on belief. Which of course you just said, but will deny that you said it in the next post.
It's actually quite amusing and sad.

Wow. What is actually quite amusing and sad is your comment.

You will admit that I have "just said" that eternal life is conditional on belief, but then "will deny that I said it".

That is just twisted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement on the day of the Lord.

Please prove your opinion.

 

[jerry kelso]

lol. Don't you know WHY Jesus taught with metaphors?


I'll just point out that every time I ask for clarification, you wander off into the weeds with nonsense. You haven't YET made yourself clear.


If that is true, then you would have clear evidence of that. So I challenge you to cite the post # and the quote itself.

Without which, this is just another very empty opinion.


First, you seem to have zero to little understanding of what I post. OF course Paul made the point that he could be killed at any moment. Duh.

Second, my claim is TRUE. You cannot provide ANY evidence that your opinions are found in the Bible.


No, you have only given your own opinion about a passage.


Of course I agree with the Word. What I don't agree with is your own opinions, which you have NOT been able to support from Scripture.

freegrace,

1. Now you’re just not being truthful.
You can disagree and believe what you want but you haven’t proved the scriptures I gave for the context is wrong because you can’t.

2. Do you believe Paul is talking about the resurrection of Christ at all in 1 Corinthians 15 in this context?
Do you believe that in verse 12 that it is talking about people who didn’t believe in the physical resurrection of Christ?
Do you believe that everything is in vain if there is no hope of a physical resurrection?
Do you believe they could be killed physically any day for the sake of living for Jesus?
Do you believe that if there is no hope of a physical resurrection is why Paul said they might as well eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.
Everyone is going to die but if you die without the hope of a physical resurrection you die as a sinner without Christ.
What good is baptism for the dead if there is no hope of a physical resurrection?
I gave you the first 31-32 verses of 1 Corinthians. I gave you Romans 8:36 and 2 Corinthians 4:9-11.
Answer the questions above and quit giving objecting excuses. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

The 1 John 2;1 "sinner" is not a Christian, but "any man".
As Jesus was my advocate at the beginning of my walk in the Spirit so He can be to all who will come to Him.
Verses 3 & 4 define the difference between Christians and "any man"...
3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


Amen to that.
Verse 4 above shows who is NOT "abiding".


I'm sorry you have taken a man's word to accommodate sin, as the truth of God.
By insinuating the word "practice", he has made a single murder, adultery, or lie acceptable in the body of Christ. As long as the sin is "only once in a while", it doesn't really matter!
Does that sound like the Christ of God?
And I bet it doesn't apply to Adam and Eve either.


A couple of things to address here...
First, It is "possible" for men in Christ to sin, but they don't.
Sin would manifest they were never actually "in Christ"...for in Him is no sin.
Second, One "posers'" sin can't show an entire doctrine to be wrong. The sinner was wrong, not the idea of perfect obedience to God.
We are given, by the grace of God, lots of exhortations and warnings about how to conduct ourselves, and they are meant to be adhered to.


Our level of learning has no influence on what we can resist from the devil.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
God provides the escapes for every one based on what they DO know.


Is sin a fruit of "that" seed?
No.

philw,

1. Are you telling me that you have never committed an act of sin since you have been saved?
Or do you believe that you can commit an act of sin but it really isn’t a sin because your seed remains in you?
What is your definition of sin,
Do you believe mistakes are sins or not?
What is your theology on the subject of sin according to sin?

2. Peter was being hypocritical in Acts and Galatians according to Paul when he was with the gentiles and then wouldn’t associate with them later because of fear for the Jews. That was way after he was saved.
The account of Korah in Moses day who sinned and were destroyed after they were part of those baptized in the cloud and sea.
Those in Ezekiel 18 where God would not remember there righteousness anymore if they didn’t repent?
Anna is and Sapphira dropped dead after lying to the Holy Spirit and they were a part of those that were saved in the early church and had everything in common.

3. I don’t have time to go on but oblige me and let me know what your stand is on sin and the questions I have asked. Jerry Kelso

 

[renniks]

You will admit that I have "just said" that eternal life is conditional on belief, but then "will deny that I said it".

Lol, reading comprehension problem.

 

[renniks]

15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

Believes, present tense. Exactly as I've been saying. Whoever believes, now, at this time has eternal life. Not whoever once upon a time believed. Lesson over.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I reject free grace but I believe that the bible does in fact state that a believer cannot lose their salvation. Case in point many statements made by Christ and the apostles that once a person receives the Holy Spirit and is born again, they are born again and saved FOR FOREVER.

 

[jerry kelso]

I reject free grace but I believe that the bible does in fact state that a believer cannot lose their salvation. Case in point many statements made by Christ and the apostles that once a person receives the Holy Spirit and is born again, they are born again and saved FOR FOREVER.

neostarwcc,

1. OSAS which is UES cannot be substantiated by all the scriptures and scriptural contexts across the board in the Old and New Testaments both.
We can be eternally secure by cooperating with Christ in relationship.
But there is always a condition.
God will not make man do something against his will if he decides he doesn’t want to do it. If so then he would make sure that we are eternally unable not have the possibility to sin.
Christians losing their salvation is a possibility but I wouldn’t necessarily it is a high probability. Paul said he had a made up mind and most Christians are of that mindset. Jerry Kelso

 

[Phil W]

Why do I need to?

Because I asked you.

All I can do is observe people to see who follows the Bible and who doesn't.

That is a fine answer.

And guess what: there are unbelievers who act better than some believers.

If the unbelievers are following the bible closer than the believers, doesn't that make you see that those alleged believes are not following the bible?

But I know you won't believe that.

I do believe it, but I don't call men who don't adhere to the bible "believers".
They are 'sheep' who do not follow Jesus. (John 10:4)

 

[Phil W]

Please prove your opinion.

It is written..."But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom 14:10)
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". (Heb 9:27)
"For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:" (2 Peter 2:9)
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:7)
"Here in is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
...only then your salvation will be assured.

 

[Phil W]

philw,
1. Are you telling me that you have never committed an act of sin since you have been saved?

I have committed no sin since my repentance from sin.
My salvation won't be sure till the day of the Lord's judgement.

Or do you believe that you can commit an act of sin but it really isn’t a sin because your seed remains in you?

As His seed is that from which I have been (re)gendered, it can not bear the fruit of the devil.
Were I to commit a sin, I would have to admit I wasn't (re)born of God.

What is your definition of sin,

It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin:.." (1 John 5:17)

Do you believe mistakes are sins or not?

Not, as James writes..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:14-15)
For something to be a sin, it requires a temptation, a lust, an enticement, and conception.
Hardly the things evident in a 'mistake'.

What is your theology on the subject of sin according to sin?

I've never heard the phrase before.

2. Peter was being hypocritical in Acts and Galatians according to Paul when he was with the gentiles and then wouldn’t associate with them later because of fear for the Jews. That was way after he was saved.

Had Peter fraternized with the Gentiles when the visiting Jews showed up they would have accused him of sin.
He was in a no-win situation.
Peter's real "fault" was his acting in a way that validated the Law's continued reign over men.
But even that was no sin, as there were "thousands" in Jerusalem that were zealous of the Law. (Acts 21:20)

The account of Korah in Moses day who sinned and were destroyed after they were part of those baptized in the cloud and sea.

They were "immersed", took part in an event...not into Christ and His death, burial, and resurrection.
Their "baptism" was not to cause their rebirth, so they all still walked in the flesh instead of the Spirit.

Those in Ezekiel 18 where God would not remember there righteousness anymore if they didn’t repent?

I can't get a handle on a question here.??

Anna is and Sapphira dropped dead after lying to the Holy Spirit and they were a part of those that were saved in the early church and had everything in common.

Again, as salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement of the last day, Ananias and wife manifested who they were really born of by their wicked fruit.

3. I don’t have time to go on but oblige me and let me know what your stand is on sin and the questions I have asked. Jerry Kelso

Jesus came and conquered sin, while in the flesh.
By our "immersion" (baptism), into Him we can share in that victory and power over sin.

 

[Phil W]

Believes, present tense. Exactly as I've been saying. Whoever believes, now, at this time has eternal life. Not whoever once upon a time believed. Lesson over.

Your verse included "will in Him have..."
I hope your not saying sinners are "in Him".
Nobody "outside of" Jesus Christ will receive eternal life.

 

[renniks]

have committed no sin since my repentance from sin.
My salvation won't be sure till the day of the Lord's judgement.

So does that mean you repent daily? Hourly? Minute by minute? If salvation is lost at every sin, how can we have any confidence that we are really in Christ? Perhaps we missed confession of something we didn't know was a sin.

 

[FreeGrace2]

freegrace,

1. Now you’re just not being truthful.

No, that would be you.

You can disagree and believe what you want but you haven’t proved the scriptures I gave for the context is wrong because you can’t.

The opposite is true. You haven't proved your opinion from Scripture.

2. Do you believe Paul is talking about the resurrection of Christ at all in 1 Corinthians 15 in this context?

Of course he is.

Do you believe that in verse 12 that it is talking about people who didn’t believe in the physical resurrection of Christ?
Do you believe that everything is in vain if there is no hope of a physical resurrection?
Do you believe they could be killed physically any day for the sake of living for Jesus?
Do you believe that if there is no hope of a physical resurrection is why Paul said they might as well eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

yes. yes. yes. yes. But none of this is the point. In spite of what you seem to think is the point.

Everyone is going to die but if you die without the hope of a physical resurrection you die as a sinner without Christ.

Are you aware that other religions include a physical resurrection. So your comment isn't truthful.

What good is baptism for the dead if there is no hope of a physical resurrection?
I gave you the first 31-32 verses of 1 Corinthians. I gave you Romans 8:36 and 2 Corinthians 4:9-11.

So? Not even scholars understand what Paul was referring to by 'baptism for the dead'.

But, maybe you know more than biblical scholars. So, please, enlighten me on what that was about.

Answer the questions above and quit giving objecting excuses. Jerry Kelso

First, I just did. Second, I never give excuses. And my objections are based on truth, which I back up with Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"You will admit that I have "just said" that eternal life is conditional on belief, but then "will deny that I said it"."

Lol, reading comprehension problem.

You sure do. Your posts make no sense.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Believes, present tense. Exactly as I've been saying. Whoever believes, now, at this time has eternal life. Not whoever once upon a time believed. Lesson over.

I offer this Scripture, which REFUTES your erroneous opinion.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Condemnation is based on those who have not believed. Guess what tense that is.

 

[FreeGrace2]

We can be eternally secure by cooperating with Christ in relationship.

Such "cooperation" is just another way of saying that we are saved by what we DO. That is works salvation.

[QUTOE]But there is always a condition.[/QUOTE]
The ONLY condition for eternal security is to be given eternal life. John 10:28. And the ONLY condition for receiving eternal life is to believe in Christ. John 5:24, 6;47, 1 John 5:11, 13.

God will not make man do something against his will if he decides he doesn’t want to do it. If so then he would make sure that we are eternally unable not have the possibility to sin.

Please quote any Scripture that says so.

When a person believes, they are changed forever:

1. born again. How can anyone UNdo that?
2. new creature. What verse says we revert back to old creature?
3. indwelling Holy Spirit. What verse teaches any NT believer can lose the Spirit? In fact, Eph 1:13,14 makes clear that "having believed", the believer is sealed with the Spirit, who is a deposit that GUARANTEES our inheritance for the day of redemption for God's possession (sealed believers).

Christians losing their salvation is a possibility but I wouldn’t necessarily it is a high probability. Paul said he had a made up mind and most Christians are of that mindset. Jerry Kelso

Why can't you prove your opinion from Scripture; that losing salvation is a possibility.

Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 refute your opinion.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do believe it, but I don't call men who don't adhere to the bible "believers".
They are 'sheep' who do not follow Jesus. (John 10:4)

How do people become Jesus' sheep? They "enter through Him", a metaphor for believing in Him.

Do all sheep follow their shepherds? That's why shepherds have shepherd crooks. To get the stupid sheep out of trouble. For not following the shepherd.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is written..."But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Rom 14:10)
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". (Heb 9:27)
"For the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:" (2 Peter 2:9)
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:7)
"Here in is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
...only then your salvation will be assured.

Only one problem. There is NOTHING in any of these verses that backs up your last statement. Zero.