Salvation Cannot be Lost

[BCsenior]

Peter thinks you can be perfectly obedient...

There are a dozen NT verses which promise:
BACs are NO LONGER slaves of sin
BACs have been SET FREE from sin's bondage
etc.
But, most BACs in today's churches, and on today's Christian forums,
do NOT want to hear about it, read the verses, believe the verses, etc.

 

[BCsenior]

So, please provide evidence that says that salvation can be lost.

You've seen all the verses dozens of times!

 

[BCsenior]

I don't really know what is hard to understand about that.

Some here just obviously don't want to believe it.

 

[BCsenior]

God does expect you to live as Jesus did.
He made a way for us to accomplish that.

-- a new creation in Christ
-- the indwelling Holy Spirit
-- the whole word of God
-- set free from being a slave of sin
Do you need more?

 

[renniks]

Eph 1:13,14 is my reference.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
It's clearly conditional on belief. Why do you want so badly to believe that people who no longer believe Christ died for them will go to heaven?

 

[Phil W]

Against his free will, can He?

Nope, not against a rebel's will.
But He can, and will, for those who love Him above all else and their neighbor as they love themselves.

 

[renniks]

You don't think there are folks who have resisted the grace of God?
What is the percentage of men who still commit sin on earth?
They are the resisters!

Um, I just said I didn't believe in irresistible grace, so I'm confused at what point you are making here.

 

[BCsenior]

An unbeliever would not want to be with God, whom he rejected.

C'mon, most unbelievers would gladly choose
to be with God in heaven instead of being in hell.

However, after being in hell for a few hours,
ALL unbelievers would gladly choose
to be with God in heaven instead of being in hell.

 

[Phil W]

-- a new creation in Christ
-- the indwelling Holy Spirit
-- the whole word of God
-- set free from being a slave of sin
Do you need more?

There are many "links in the chain", but your summation is about all inclusive.
Thanks!

 

[Phil W]

Um, I just said I didn't believe in irresistible grace, so I'm confused at what point you are making here.

Oops!
I must have misread your opening line...
Sorry for the confusion.

But hey, you can add my words to your position, no charge!

 

[renniks]

C'mon, most unbelievers would gladly choose
to be with God in heaven instead of being in hell.

However, after being in hell for a few hours,
ALL unbelievers would gladly choose
to be with God in heaven instead of being in hell.

I don't believe that who has resisted God his whole life, would find being in the presence of God a joyous experience. Once the time of Grace is over, the will is fixed and the will The unbeliever will always resist. At least that's my take on it. Can you imagine an unrepentant Hitler in heaven? Could such a person endure the presence of holiness? I'm not saying I can prove this position from scripture, it just seems logical.

 

[BCsenior]

I'm not saying I can prove this position from scripture, it just seems logical.

Sorry, brother, it's not logical to me.
Especially, re: the one who has been in hell for awhile.
Like I said before ... C'mon!

Aaaaaah, now I get it ... Thou doesn't believe in hell.

 

[renniks]

Sorry, brother, it's not logical to me.
Especially, re: the one who has been in hell for awhile.
Like I said before ... C'mon!

Aaaaaah, now I get it ... Thou doesn't believe in hell.

I certainly do. I'm not convinced that I can know what it is really like, however, because the Biblical descriptions vary so widely. A place of outer darkness, a firery place, a garbage heap...
The orthodox, I hear, believe God is the fire in hell, which makes sense. What would be a comfort for a believer would be torment for the rebel..

 

[FreeGrace2]

God does expect you to live as Jesus did.
He made a way for us to accomplish that.
He gifted us with repentance, baptism for the remission of past sins, the death of the old man and rebirth of a new man, the Holy Spirit, the mind of Christ, and, among others things, escapes from every temptation.
Everyone who's repentance from sin was real have "met that goal".

And you can't support any of this from Scripture.

Please answer this question.

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Hast thou forgotten that there are
HEAVY-DUTY CONDITIONS
attached to your blessed hope of
John 10:28?

False. Between Jesus' statement of giving eternal life to His sheep, and the result of never perishing, there are ZERO conditions attached.

They are listed for you in John 10:27,
which is the verse before John 10:28.

This list has ZERO conditions either. To every reasonable and rational person, this is a list of what Jesus' sheep DO.

Or, it's a list of what Jesus' sheep SHOULD DO. iow, it's a policy statement.

Please answer this question:

In restaurants there is a sign on the inside of their restroom doors that say:
"all employees wash their hands".

Do you seriously believe that every single employee washes their hands every time?

You'd be very naive if you do.

But you don't want to recognize a policy statement, because it refutes your claim.

Paul, the FG2 is very well aware of these conditions.

Why do you put the word "the" before my initials? Is this just your way of ad hominem attacks?

Am I an object? Certainly an object of derision to you, but why the need to reveal your insecurities to the whole forum?

Please answer this question.

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are a dozen NT verses which promise:
BACs are NO LONGER slaves of sin
BACs have been SET FREE from sin's bondage
etc.
But, most BACs in today's churches, and on today's Christian forums,
do NOT want to hear about it, read the verses, believe the verses, etc.

This is a failure to understand what being "set free" means. It doesn't mean to no longer sin.

It means freed from the penalty of sin. The theological term is justification.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"So, please provide evidence that says that salvation can be lost."

You've seen all the verses dozens of times!

Sure. And I've addressed ALL of them. And shown that NONE of them state in clear and unambiguous words that salvation can be lost.

otoh, John 10:28 is the single most clear statement about eternal security in the Bible.

But some people reject the truth at their own peril.

When Jesus gives eternal life to believers, they shall never perish.

You cannot prove otherwise.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Eph 1:13,14 is my reference."

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
It's clearly conditional on belief.

Of course it is. And the phrase "when you believed" in v.13 proves that. I don't need v.19 to prove the guarantee is for believers only.

However, I DO use v.19 to explain who is chosen (elected). Believers are chosen. No one is chosen to become a believer.

Why do you want so badly to believe that people who no longer believe Christ died for them will go to heaven?

Because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

And we KNOW WHEN a person receives (is given) eternal life. WHEN they believe, according to John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:11, 13.

So, FROM the moment on believes, they are guaranteed to never perish.

Please answer this question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

 

[renniks]

I said:
"Eph 1:13,14 is my reference."

Of course it is. And the phrase "when you believed" in v.13 proves that. I don't need v.19 to prove the guarantee is for believers only.

However, I DO use v.19 to explain who is chosen (elected). Believers are chosen. No one is chosen to become a believer.


Because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

And we KNOW WHEN a person receives (is given) eternal life. WHEN they believe, according to John 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:11, 13.

So, FROM the moment on believes, they are guaranteed to never perish.

Please answer this question:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

No, no. I said; Eph 1:19 A"what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
It's clearly conditional on belief."
This is not those who once believed, but those who currently believe.
And in John 10 it's also conditional, it's the sheep who follow who are given eternal life and will never perish. If one ceases to follow, he is no longer one of his sheep.

 

[BCsenior]

Eph 1:19 "what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power"
It's clearly conditional on belief.
This is not those who once believed, but those who currently believe.
And in John 10 it's also conditional, it's the sheep who follow who are given eternal life
and will never perish. If one ceases to follow, he is no longer one of his sheep.

John 10:27 ...
It's also the sheep who hear Jesus' voice, and the sheep whom He knows!

There are many CONDITIONAL "IF" verses in the NT.
Maybe I should post them all AGAIN.
But, they are only for those with eyes to see, ears to hear, etc.
And I know you are one of those blessed believers.