Salvation and Obedience: Can you have one without the other?

[Dah'veed]

You keep adding a notion of work (by using words like submit, devote) and not just faith in Jesus. But The Bible states one who believes in Jesus receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Because there were some believers in Jesus time on earth who believe in Jesus and became born again children of God. But they would not confess being believers in Jesus.
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

When the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonders that he did and the children shouting in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant and said to him, “Do you hear what these children are saying?” Jesus replied, “Yes, I do. Have you never read, ‘From the mouths of children and infants, you have created praise’?” Matt 21:14-16

Great is the Lord, and most worthy of praise; Ps 48:1
We will declare the praiseworthy deeds of the Lord, his power, and the wonders he has done. Ps 78:4
You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; Sing the praises of the Lord, you his faithful people; Praise His holy name; Ps 30:3-4
You set me in your presence forever. Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. Ps 41:12-13
The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today; They make known your faithfulness; Isa 38:19

 

[Mercy Shown]

You keep adding a notion of work (by using words like submit, devote) and not just faith in Jesus. But The Bible states one who believes in Jesus receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Because there were some believers in Jesus time on earth who believe in Jesus and became born again children of God. But they would not confess being believers in Jesus.

Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Belief in Him produces works, devotion and submission. When the seed fell on the good soil it produced a crop, some 30, some 60, some 100 fold. We are recreated to do good works that Jesus has prepared for us beforehand.

Jesus did not say to the crippled man at the pool of Salome, "Just believe and I will carry you around for the rest of your life. He said, "take up your bed and walk."

 

[Dah'veed]

Belief in Him produces works, devotion and submission. When the seed fell on the good soil it produced a crop, some 30, some 60, some 100 fold. We are recreated to do good works that Jesus has prepared for us beforehand.

Jesus did not say to the crippled man at the pool of Salome, "Just believe and I will carry you around for the rest of your life. He said, "take up your bed and walk."

Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.” Luke 7:22-23

 

[Mercy Shown]

Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.” Luke 7:22-23

Praise the Lord for this. A blind, deaf mute who is healed will have a radical change in their lives and behaviors for now they can see, hear and speak. When Christ gifted me with spiritual sight it was a painful shock for me to see how sinful and deficit I was. There was no good thing in me, that is in my flesh and still He loved me enough to die in my place and suffer my eternal damnation. Oh what wonderous love. But losing my ego, hubris and pride it has radically changed my behaviour.

 

[d taylor]

Belief in Him produces works, devotion and submission. When the seed fell on the good soil it produced a crop, some 30, some 60, some 100 fold. We are recreated to do good works that Jesus has prepared for us beforehand.

Jesus did not say to the crippled man at the pool of Salome, "Just believe and I will carry you around for the rest of your life. He said, "take up your bed and walk."

Belief in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It (belief) only produces good works, devotion and submission if the new believer has correct teaching and becomes a discipline believer.

Like the parable of the soils, there are three types of believers illustrated in the parable. The 2nd soil and the 3rd soil (both believers) fail to mature as a believer and produce fruit. The 2nd soil even falls away from the faith but they are still permanently a born again child of God. But they will not have that good of a resurrection concerning future rewards for children of God.

 

[ozso]

True obedience was only possible for Christ to accomplish. I believe once we are saved we have a desire to be obedient. A longing for righteousness.

 

[d taylor]

When the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonders that he did and the children shouting in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant and said to him, “Do you hear what these children are saying?” Jesus replied, “Yes, I do. Have you never read, ‘From the mouths of children and infants, you have created praise’?” Matt 21:14-16

Great is the Lord, and most worthy of praise; Ps 48:1
We will declare the praiseworthy deeds of the Lord, his power, and the wonders he has done. Ps 78:4
You, Lord, brought me up from the realm of the dead; Sing the praises of the Lord, you his faithful people; Praise His holy name; Ps 30:3-4
You set me in your presence forever. Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. Ps 41:12-13
The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today; They make known your faithfulness; Isa 38:19

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Yes The Bible does say that God is worthy of praise, Whats your point?

 

[Mercy Shown]

Belief in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It (belief) only produces good works, devotion and submission if the new believer has correct teaching and becomes a discipline believer.

Like the parable of the soils, there are three types of believers illustrated in the parable. The 2nd soil and the 3rd soil (both believers) fail to mature as a believer and produce fruit. The 2nd soil even falls away from the faith but they are still permanently a born again child of God. But they will not have that good of a resurrection concerning future rewards for children of God.

I must admit, it is above my paygrade to determine who will be saved or lost, so I do not know if these individuals will be saved or lost and pruned off to be cast in the fire. (John 15:6)

I leave that to God who knows. All I can testify to is what He did and does for me.

 

[Soyeong]

True obedience was only possible for Christ to accomplish. I believe once we are saved we have a desire to be obedient. A longing for righteousness.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So obedience was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as something that was only possible for Christ to accomplished. Furthermore, there are a number of examples of people in the Bible who are obedient, such as Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Hebrews 5:9, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

 

[Clare73]

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life!

And the NT reports that all who rely on observing the law are under a curse. . .clearly no one is justified before God by the law because righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:10-11, Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3).

Time to update your theology.

 

[Soyeong]

And the NT reports that all who rely on observing the law are under a curse. . .clearly no one is justified before God by the law because righteousness has always been by faith (Gal 3:10-11, Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3).

Time to update your theology.

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, the way to be blessed is by relying on the Law of God while the way to be cursed is by not relying it and you should not interpret what Paul said in a manner that is contrary to what he considered to be Scripture because that would be contrary to both the NT and the OT, so you should update your theology. The fact that anyone who does not rely on the Law of God is under a curse means that anyone who relies on something else is under a curse, such as relying on works of the law.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by relying on what He has instructed, while for you to speak against relying on what God has instructed is to speak against relying on God. It is blasphemy against God to that everyone who relies on God is under a curse.

Indeed, we are not made righteous as the result of obeying the Law of God because righteousness has always been by faith and the same faith by which we declared righteous is also expressed through being a doer of the law, which is why only doers of the law will be declared righteous (Romans 2:13, 3:31).

 

[d taylor]

I must admit, it is above my paygrade to determine who will be saved or lost, so I do not know if these individuals will be saved or lost and pruned off to be cast in the fire. (John 15:6)

I leave that to God who knows. All I can testify to is what He did and does for me.

Well you are making a big assumption, that fire always means hell fire. But with born again children of God that can not be the case, as God's children will never be in danger of hell.

Believers Who Play With Fire Get Burned – John 15:6 – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Clare73]

According to Deuteronomy 27-28,

Time to update your theology.

 

[public hermit]

Is obedience to God tied to salvation? In 1 Peter 1 I read, Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation.

Jesus asked, "why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not the things that I say?" So it appears that obedience is indeed tied to salvation but in what way? Those who are saved will be obedient ones, certainly the disobedient will not inherit the Kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-10)

Yet none of us are perfectly obedient and if we claim we are, then we are being disobedient by doing so. I mistakenly thought that obedience was the way to salvation but it has turned out to be the result of salvation in my case. God saved me in Jesus Christ making me perfect forever before God even while I am being made Holy. (Heb 10:14)

Jesus taught that good comes from a good heart and evil from an evil heart. So I have figured that you can't make you heart good by doing good. No, it must be good in order to do good, so how does it become good? By being made good and that is Salvation. It is made good over time but counted good the moment we submit to God's will for our lives.

What practical advice can you share as to how you share as to how you increase your obedience to our Savior?

I think locating the issue in the heart is right. But a spiritual transformation of the heart cannot rest solely on the activity of that same heart. If it could, there would be no need for grace and the indwelling Spirit.

Obedience comes by degrees that tracks along with the Spirit's work in transforming the heart. I think what matters most is not the level of obedience but the trajectory of the person's heart. So long as they are living a life of repentance, a continual turning away from sin and toward Christ, they might be less obedient than another but they are spiritually maturing, which is the point. It's more about progress than perfection; although, perfection is the promise. Spiritual maturity, and thus obedience, is a process.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Well you are making a big assumption, that fire always means hell fire. But with born again children of God that can not be the case, as God's children will never be in danger of hell.

Believers Who Play With Fire Get Burned – John 15:6 – Grace Evangelical Society

Amen, this is true, but only God knows whether another person is His or not. This is something we do not know nor have any privy to. Everyone of the disciples assumed Judas was one of his but he turned out to be evil.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I think locating the issue in the heart is right. But a spiritual transformation of the heart cannot rest solely on the activity of that same heart. If it could, there would be no need for grace and the indwelling Spirit.

Amen! Very excellent point. God must remove our heart of stone and give us a heart for Him. It is Him at every turn!

Obedience comes by degrees that tracks along with the Spirit's work in transforming the heart. I think what matters most is not the level of obedience but the trajectory of the person's heart. So long as they are living a life of repentance, a continual turning away from sin and toward Christ, they might be less obedient than another but they are spiritually maturing, which is the point. It's more about progress than perfection; although, perfection is the promise. Spiritual maturity, and thus obedience, is a process.

Yes! As Heb 10:14 states, that we are made perfect forever by His one sacrifice while still being made holy.

 

[d taylor]

Amen, this is true, but only God knows whether another person is His or not. This is something we do not know nor have any privy to. Everyone of the disciples assumed Judas was one of his but he turned out to be evil.

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That may be your case. But i know for 100%, i am a born again child of God.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is only one act of obedience needed to received God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation That is to obey God's one requirement to receive Eternal Life salvation and that is to believe in Jesus the promised Messiah, God's only begotten Son. To believe in Jesus is to believe Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

Ahh yes the old believe in Jesus and sin as much as you like theology. Actually I should say new because it only began 500 years ago.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Amen! Very excellent point. God must remove our heart of stone and give us a heart for Him. It is Him at every turn!

Yes! As Heb 10:14 states, that we are made perfect forever by His one sacrifice while still being made holy.

It says for those who are sanctified. Colossians 1:22-23 says the same thing but with an added condition.

“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Soyeong]

Time to update your theology.

NT authors quoted or alluded to OT Scripture thousands of times in order to support what they were saying and to show that they hadn't departed from it, so they certainly considered it to still be authoritative, and so should we.