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Featured Saints who Protect

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Natsumi Lam, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    This is true. My friends were led to that belief by someone and the aftermath was grave. They were wholly captive by four spirits and their lives were never the same. I remember their vibrancy and lament what they became.

    This is true. There's a spirit of schizophrenia and it is the ruler for most mental ailments. But many spiritual strongholds find their root in rejection. It is the most dangerous of the bunch and the door for many of our calamities.

    Jezebel is generally found in places of worship, pastoral, and teaching ministries. It creates factions and power struggles with the intent of destruction and the cessation of the spiritual flow in the group/person. It speaks with a forked tongue and those who are under its sway usually appear harmless and captivate their audience. Although most think of women when it's mentioned a man can be under its influence. Control is its goal.
     
  2. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    I like the question..."Good point! Are there any other Scriptures that tell us what those in heaven pray for?"...makes me think...how do we hold the dead accountable? How do we know if their prayers are answered? Where scripurally does it say we are to prayer to or with those saints? Accounability and fruit is a necessity.
     
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  3. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Mental illness can be physical, spiritual or a combo.

    I have a combo.
     
  4. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Where does it say in Scripture that deceased saints pray for our salvation? ".... God answered their prayers for you." Why would He not answer one's own prayers for their own salvation?

    Isaiah 8:18-20 (note the differences in translations)

    King James Version

    18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

    19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

    20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    1599 Geneva Bible:
    18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me, are as signs and as wonders in Israel, by the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in Mount Zion.

    19 And when they shall say unto you, Inquire at them that have a spirit of divination, and at the soothsayers which whisper and murmur, Should not a people inquire at their God? from the living to the dead?

    20 To the Law, and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word: it is because there is no light in them.

    Footnotes:
    1. Isaiah 8:18 Meaning, them that were willing to hear and obey the word of God, whom the world hated, as though they were monsters and not worthy to live.
    2. Isaiah 8:18 This was a consolation in their troubles, knowing that nothing could come unto them, but by the will of the Lord.
    3. Isaiah 8:19 Answer the wicked thus, Should not God’s people seek succor only at him?
    4. Isaiah 8:19 This is, will they refuse to be taught of the Prophet, who is the mouth of God, and seek help at the dead, which is the illusion of Satan?
    5. Isaiah 8:20 Seek remedy in the word of God, where his will is declared.
    6. Isaiah 8:20 They have no knowledge, but are blind leaders of the blind.
    American Standard Version:
    19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits and unto the wizards, that chirp and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? on behalf of the living should they seek unto the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them.

    Footnotes:
    1. Isaiah 8:20 Or, teaching
    2. Isaiah 8:20 Or, surely according to this word shall they speak for whom there is no morning

    New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition
    18 See, I and the children whom the Lord has given me are signs and portents in Israel from the Lord of hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion. 19 Now if people say to you, ‘Consult the ghosts and the familiar spirits that chirp and mutter; should not a people consult their gods, the dead on behalf of the living, 20 for teaching and for instruction?’ surely, those who speak like this will have no dawn!

    Now the phrase "unto their God" is used in two other places. (Leviticus 21:6 and Hosea 5:4) In both those passages the reference to "elohim" (which is a plural word) is noted to be "Yahweh" in the context.

    We can only take for absolute truth what we read of the Scripture of such type events; not what tradition tells us. I hear lots of people from all sorts of faith backgrounds saying all kinds of things that I'm skeptical of.

    This is why we are told to "test the spirits" because not all come from God. Satan disguising himself as an angel of light is a very real thing.

    Yes, good observation. Who's considered "alive" and who's considered "dead" is where one argument stands and the other falls.
     
  5. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    How do we know for sure God answers their prayers? On earth there is accountability one with another.. how do we know what they pray? How do we know for sure it is answered. In our Christian walk we have to be accountable.
     
  6. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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  7. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Personally, I don't "pay much attention" to the dead / "dead" because what the've done is now past and their deeds in life don't impact me in this life? Besides, we don't hold the dead accountable. That's God's job.

    Same thing goes with their prayers. Does it matter to us if their prayers are answered? We can assume that now, being freed from sin that they pray in accordance with God's will; but just because some person still residing in the flesh asks them to pray for something, doesn't mean they comply. Are the deceased saints aware of what's going on on earth? I believe they are. How do these two realms affect each other; outside of what God has already predetermined - I don't know?
     
  8. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Good point about human earthy accountability. Assuming those in heaven are now freed from sin; they'd need no accountability. "Well done good and faithful servant". The race is run, the job is over. We pray for each other to help each other get through this life basically. And this is also what we petition God for!

    Good points bring clarity!

    :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:
     
  9. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    So what's the conclusion as to what the phenomena is? If it's a common experience, there has to be some sort of biological basis to it?
     
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Why would it have to have a biological basis? A basic tenet of the Christian faith, historically, is that human beings are more than their biology.
     
  11. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    That doesn't answer the question of the "near death experience" though, because people who aren't Christian have them also. So is it a phenomena that has an earthly answer?
     
  12. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    Correct. I was addressing it solely from the spiritual element based on his response. :)
     
  13. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    How can we know if they prayed for us? How many can they do at a time? How do we gauge if their prayers are answered?
     
  14. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Why would the experience necessarily have to be unique to Christians?
     
  15. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    It's not, that's my point. You said why would it have to be biological. We are more than just biology. Yet if the experience does not fall into the spiritual realm, than the only other option is a biological phenomena.
     
  16. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    Well, we don't. That's why it's a pointless question to ask.

    See Isaiah 8:18-20
     
  17. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Before saints were "alive" after death in Christ...who did the Jews pray to? Is there support for this pov?

    If they prayed to God alone...and we have the Helper now...why do we need to go through anyone other then The Holy Spirit?

    If God already knows your prayers...why would we need saints?

    When i die...do i become a saint to petition God? How do we know what prayers i should address?

    Does the saint become divine and know when they are not praying amiss?
     
  18. Natsumi Lam

    Natsumi Lam Preparer of the Bride Supporter

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    Seems pointless to pray to them then...
     
  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Who says it doesn't fall into the "spiritual realm". Do Christians really have a monopoly in this area?
     
  20. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla Well-Known Member

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    Overall, my days are quiet. There was a period after my deliverance where spiritual activity was more prevalent. But it was largely related to developing the spiritual gifts I've been given. I needed to learn how to discern what was good and evil. I couldn't rely on feelings. Learning to listen to my spirit with the Word in tow was paramount.

    Because I'm sealed in Christ, I can never be afflicted in the way I was. However, there are instances when praying for someone (or a cause), sharing a Word or passing along information to aid an individual who's spiritually vexed when I'll encounter darkness. The goal in these scenarios is my silence.

    But it's my belief that the Lord permitted my suffering for greater reasons aside from my freedom and person. If I'm in a position to assist someone I should do so. Even if the result of my involvement is discomfort. If I detect a serious situation I'll inquire about my involvement in prayer.

    I'm sorry to hear of your accident. Have you made a full recovery?

    That's an incredible experience. Do you believe you were speaking with Jesus or someone holy? I believe mystical encounters take place but it isn't a subject I rush towards. If you understand my meaning.

    Why do you think he said that?

    I have never personally experienced the same. But that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I believe these incidents have a higher purpose. A reason our finite minds can't conceive. During my spiritual attack I frequently prayed aloud while sleeping. I heard myself talking and knew they were verses. But I can't say why and I didn't have the breadth of scripture that I possess at present. My daughter would sleep with me on occasion and echoed the same. If I had to guess I'd say it was my spirit praying on my behalf.

    While I acknowledge my experiences I don't immerse myself in them. I don't believe its God's intention for me to do so. The unknown has an uncanny way of sparking curiosity in wayward souls and those lacking maturity or discernment. Much of this hails from a hunger for God. But I'd rather lead them towards Him the right way.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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