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Sadly, NATO actually needs America. Despite Russia's economy being tiny - their military spending is huge

Laodicean60

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Everyone is feared by Russiaphobia, Russia, Russia, Russia. When you look at history objectively, it's this fear, along with all the other phobias, that keeps everyone divided.

Against Russophobia​

Ten years after the end of the Cold War, it is time to liberate ourselves from Cold War attitudes and to remember that whether as journalists or academics, our first duty is not to spread propaganda but to hold to the highest professional standards.


by Anatol Lieven
published by
World Policy Journal
on January 1, 2001
russia_hero_mb.png

program​

Russia and Eurasia​


The Russia and Eurasia Program continues Carnegie’s long tradition of independent research on major political, societal, and security trends in and U.S. policy toward a region that has been upended by Russia’s war against Ukraine. Leaders regularly turn to our work for clear-eyed, relevant analyses on the region to inform their policy decisions.
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Source: World Policy Journal
Ever since the Cold War ended, Western officials and commentators have been telling the Russians how they need to grow out of their Cold War attitudes toward the West and Western institutions, and learn to see things in a "modern" and "normal" way. And there is a good deal of truth in this. At the same time, it would have been good if we had subjected our own inherited attitudes toward Russia to a more rigorous scrutiny. For like any other inherited hatred, blind, dogmatic hostility toward Russia leads to bad policies, bad journalism, and the corruption of honest debate-and there is all too much of this hatred in Western portrayals of and comments on Russia.
From this point of view, an analysis of Russophobia has implications that go far beyond Russia. Much of the U.S. foreign policy debate, especially on the Republican side, is structured around the belief that American policy should be rooted in a robust defense of national interest-and this is probably also the belief of most ordinary Americans. However, this straightforward view coexists with another, equally widespread, view that dominates the media. It is, in Secretary of State Madeleine Albright's words, that "the United States stands taller than other nations, and therefore sees further." The unspoken assumption here is that America is not only wise but also objective, at least in its perceptions: that U.S. policy is influenced by values, but never by national prejudices. The assumption behind much American (and Western) reporting of foreign conflicts is that the writer is morally engaged but ethnically uncommitted and able to turn a benign, all-seeing eye from above on the squabbles of humanity.
It is impossible to exaggerate how irritating this attitude is elsewhere in the world, or how misleading and dangerous it is for Western audiences who believe it. Not only does it contribute to mistaken policies, but it renders both policymakers and ordinary citizens incapable of understanding the opposition of other nations to those policies. Concerning the Middle East, it seems likely that most Americans genuinely believe that the United States is a neutral and objective broker in relations between Israelis and Palestinians-which can only appear to an Arab as an almost fantastically bad joke. This belief makes it much more difficult for Americans to comprehend the reasons for Palestinian and Arab fury at both the United States and Israel. It encourages a Western interpretation of this anger as the manipulation of sheep-like masses by elites. At worst, it can encourage a kind of racism, in which certain nations are classed as irrationally, irredeemably savage and wicked.
Concerning Russia, the main thrust of the official Western rhetoric with respect to the enlargement of NATO, and Russia's response, has been that the alliance is no longer a Cold War organization or a threat to Russia, that NATO enlargement has nothing to do with Russia, that Russia should welcome enlargement, and that Russian opposition is not merely groundless but foolish and irrational. It is of course true that Russian fears of NATO expansion have been exaggerated, and some of the rhetoric has been wild. Still, given the attitudes toward Russia reflected in much of the Western media (especially among the many supporters of NATO enlargement), a Russian would have to be a moron or a traitor to approve the expansion of NATO without demanding guarantees of Russian interests and security.1
This is not to deny that there has been a great deal to condemn in many aspects of Russian behavior over the past decade, the war in Chechnya being the most ghastly example. But justifiable Western criticism has all too often been marred by attacks that have been hysterical and one-sided, and it has taken too little account of the genuine problems and threats with which Russians have had to struggle. This has been especially true of comment on the latest Chechen war, which began in the summer of 1999.
Outworn Stereotypes
Western Russophobia has various roots. One shoot is the continuing influence of what the political scientist Michael Mandelbaum has called "residual elites": groups and individuals who rose to prominence during the Cold War and have lacked the flexibility to adapt to a new reality. To these can be added others who have sought to carve out careers by advocating the expansion of U.S. influence into the lands of the former Soviet Union, in direct competition with Russia. Then there are various ethnic lobbies, whose members hate and distrust Russia for historical reasons and whose sole remaining raison d'être is to urge an anti-Russian geopolitical agenda. Finally, there are those individuals who need a great enemy, whether from some collective interest or out of personal psychological need.
Much of the intellectual basis for, and even the specific phraseology of, Russophobia was put forward in Britain in the nineteenth century, growing out of its rivalry with the Russian Empire.2 Given Britain's own record of imperial aggression and suppression of national revolt (in Ireland, let alone in India or Africa), the argument from the British side was a notable example of the kettle calling the pot black. Many contemporary Russophobe references to Russian expansionism are almost word-for-word repetitions of nineteenth-century British propaganda3 (though many pre-1917 Russians were almost as bad, weeping copious crocodile tears over Britain's defeat of the Boers shortly before Russia itself crushed Polish aspirations for the fourth time in a hundred years).

And there is more........

 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Everyone is feared by Russiaphobia, Russia, Russia, Russia. When you look at history objectively, it's this fear, along with all the other phobias, that keeps everyone divided.


In reality, the situation is quite the opposite. Only the Republican Party and the current President of the United States fears Russia. They are the only ones who seek to appease Putin.

The rest of us want to resist and push Russia back to its own territory.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Everyone is feared by Russiaphobia, Russia, Russia, Russia. When you look at history objectively, it's this fear, along with all the other phobias, that keeps everyone divided.

Against Russophobia​

Ten years after the end of the Cold War, it is time to liberate ourselves from Cold War attitudes and to remember that whether as journalists or academics, our first duty is not to spread propaganda but to hold to the highest professional standards.
Nonsense. What the Russian government calls "russophobia" is nothing more than other countries saying "Hey Russia -- we don't like your evil. Knock it off."
 
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Laodicean60

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Nonsense. What the Russian government calls "russophobia" is nothing more than other countries saying "Hey Russia -- we don't like your evil. Knock it off."
How can you say it's nonsense when you haven't read it? It's a history lesson.
 
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Chesterton

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All you do here is betray your ignorance of 20th century history, particularly of the Soviet Union.

Did you ever live next to Russia? Well Poland has. They've been invaded by Russia 3 times in the 20th century. (Not to mention the 3 partitions of Poland that went to Russia in the 18th century. Poles know *exactly* why they'd rather be have allies behind the when they face Russia.
Three times in the 20th century? That would be the Soviet Union. And if you want to bring up partitions in the 1700's, you're kind of making my point that NATO is not needed in the current century. Do the American states need to form a coalition against King George III?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Three times in the 20th century? That would be the Soviet Union. And if you want to bring up partitions in the 1700's, you're kind of making my point that NATO is not needed in the current century.
"Soviet Union" is just what the Russians Communists called the country. It's like Myanmar/Burma or Siam/Thailand it's still the same country.
Do the American states need to form a coalition against King George III?
I think he is called "Charles 3" now, but yes, monarchs should be rejected or worse.
 
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Chesterton

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"Soviet Union" is just what the Russians Communists called the country. It's like Myanmar/Burma or Siam/Thailand it's still the same country.
Barak Obama said "elections have consequences". Revolutions have even more severe consequences.
I think he is called "Charles 3" now, but yes, monarchs should be rejected or worse.
No, if you visit his grave, his name is still George.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Barak Obama said "elections have consequences". Revolutions have even more severe consequences.
China is still China through various forms of government.
No, if you visit his grave, his name is still George.
I thought Chuckie kept his regular name when he became "king". And if he had taken George, it would haven been "George 7" or something like that. (He's also still alive, so I shan't be visiting his grave just yet. (or ever, who cares about kings)
 
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Richard T

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Perhaps Europe will truly stop buying russian gas and oil once Russia invades the EU. That would do more damage to the russian economy than our combined armies.
Yes, the screws are getting tighter as we speak by many nations (Not the USA of course) on Russia trade and economic sanctions. The EU was too content to slow play the economic sanctions. I think they are awoke now but it may be too late. It is funny how the USA thinks that sanctions on Iran will change them, but yet does not advocate for such sanctions on Russia. They sure changed South Africa on the question of apartheid. I think history will show the West was too timid on dealing with belligerent nations. Certainly that is what Gen's Patton and McArthur thought. I am no war monger but Trump is undoing what Reagan so skillfully managed.
 
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RDKirk

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I am no war monger but Trump is undoing what Reagan so skillfully managed.
That's true, although we learned later that Reagan played the game a whole lot closer to the edge than he or any of us realized.
 
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Chesterton

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Hans Blaster

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Chesterton

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Are Chinese people somehow not in charge of the Chinese government?
Chuck gets the respect he has earned -- none.
I agree he's a nitwit, but my parents raised me better than to call a king Chuckie. As much as I disliked Obama, I didn't call him "Barry".
No living king is can be "good", definitionally.
When the Romanians killed Ceaușescu and his wife, their exiled king was able to return. He was very warmly and enthusiastically received by the people. More than half the people wanted to restore the monarchy, although that ultimately didn't happen.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I didn't say the government was controlled by "the people". It is clearly a dictatorship controlled by a Chinese dictator.

But let's go beyond this: Is Egypt somehow not Egypt for 6000 years of history because the nation was concqured a few times? (Libyans, Nubians, Hyksos, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, British, etc)? Russia was still Russia and has been since the formation of the Moscovite state.
I agree he's a nitwit, but my parents raised me better than to call a king Chuckie. As much as I disliked Obama, I didn't call him "Barry".
It is the mere existence of Chuckles and the title that he claims that I have no respect for. Perhaps he is a nice man, but until he give up that "crown" I cannot consider him as such.
When the Romanians killed Ceaușescu and his wife, their exiled king was able to return. He was very warmly and enthusiastically received by the people. More than half the people wanted to restore the monarchy, although that ultimately didn't happen.
The level of foolishness in this world is striking.
 
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Chesterton

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I didn't say the government was controlled by "the people". It is clearly a dictatorship controlled by a Chinese dictator.

But let's go beyond this: Is Egypt somehow not Egypt for 6000 years of history because the nation was concqured a few times? (Libyans, Nubians, Hyksos, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, British, etc)? Russia was still Russia and has been since the formation of the Moscovite state.
It's not that the people somehow become different, it's that the people who violently took control of every aspect of government had wildly different values and ideologies.
It is the mere existence of Chuckles and the title that he claims that I have no respect for. Perhaps he is a nice man, but until he give up that "crown" I cannot consider him as such.

The level of foolishness in this world is striking.
This dislike of royalty seems odd coming from a guy who uses an avatar of a guy who appears to have a Napoleon complex.
 
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Hans Blaster

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It's not that the people somehow become different, it's that the people who violently took control of every aspect of government had wildly different values and ideologies.
It was still Russia, just like the US is still America.
This dislike of royalty seems odd coming from a guy who uses an avatar of a guy who appears to have a Napoleon complex.
It was a common way to pose for portraits at the time particularly by men in uniform.
 
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Pommer

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It was still Russia, just like the US is still America.

It was a common way to pose for portraits at the time particularly by men in uniform.
You know you’ve hit pay dirt when they’re nitpicking one’s avatar!
 
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Chesterton

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Hans Blaster

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No, when the values change, the society changes.
Was France no longer France after the Revolution? Or the "new" France no longer France after Napoleon became emporer? What about when the Germans turned it into a puppet state? No longer France in 1940? How about after liberation and the 4th Republic? Still France or not? What about the creation of the 5th Republic? Did it stop being France then?
What have you been smoking?
You, apparently.
The only sense in which the U.S. is still America is geographic, although we do still occasionally follow the Constitution.
 
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Chesterton

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Was France no longer France after the Revolution? Or the "new" France no longer France after Napoleon became emporer? What about when the Germans turned it into a puppet state? No longer France in 1940? How about after liberation and the 4th Republic? Still France or not? What about the creation of the 5th Republic? Did it stop being France then?
It remained France in name only. If it was still France through changes like this, why is this Frenchman weeping?

1741557937617.png
 
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