Sadly, NATO actually needs America. Despite Russia's economy being tiny - their military spending is huge

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I did, "Osama bin Laden, the founder and first general emir of al-Qaeda, declared war on the United States in 1996 and advocated attacks targeting US assets in various countries. He was opposed to the United States' foreign policy in the Middle East and warned the U.S. to leave the region, believing that the Israeli state's ultimate goal was to annex the Arabian Peninsula and the Middle East into its territory and enslave its peoples, as part of what he called a "Greater Israel"

I guess we should have. We'd still have two trade centers and thousands of lives, and no one would be dying today of environmental illnesses caused by it.

The biggest we would be having an endless war in the ME.

Is your defense strategy for the USA to obey terrorist like Osama bin Laden and dictator like Putin because you fear war?

It sound like those peace-loving liberal who protests with signs saying "world peace" whenever the US stands up to tyrants.

 

[Nithavela]

Russia isn't the only country surrounding Finland, and again, it's smart to have a strong military no matter who your neighbor is. Just like Finland joining Nazi Germany.

I don't know what to tell you. You just come across as willfully ignorant when you pretend Finland wasn't feeling threatened by Russia.

 

[RDKirk]

Why? Because they didn't feel Russia was a threat, doesn't that make sense? There goes the narrative of big bad Russia.

Russia attacked, which was wrong, but this attack wasn't out of the blue. Putin had been warning us for sixteen years up until they invaded but we had to have them in the country club.

Actually, Putin himself gave a long explanation that the reason he attacked Ukraine is because Russians consider Ukraine the "Eden" of Russian ethnicity and existential to their continued existence as a people. There is a copy of his treatise on Wikipedia that you can read for yourself.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't know what to tell you. You just come across as willfully ignorant when you pretend Finland wasn't feeling threatened by Russia.

They feel more threatened by Putin than they did by the Soviet Union.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not true. Russia was not Russia under the Soviets. It went from a Christian nation to a nation which murdered priests and destroyed churches.

The USSR was basically a reconstruction of the pre-Revolution Russian Empire. Some of the non-Russian parts declared independence when the Tsarist monarchy fell and then the Red Army recaptured them all calling them "soviet republics". (And, of course, the USSR added conqured lands to its territory during WW 2.

Soviet leadership played a good propaganda game, but everyone knew what "Russification" meant within the USSR.

No, not just to agitate Russia. To make money, and to get the U.S. to pay for their defense, even though there's nothing to defend against.

Maybe you should have some empathy for what the Russians feel. After 1990, Russia was never a threat to Europe until NATO just kept encroaching and encroaching. Russia and the West could have been friends, we should have been friends.

As others have noted, the post-Soviet states and the old Warsaw Pact nations *begged* NATO to let them join. (And the EU.)

 

[ozso]

Actually, Putin himself gave a long explanation that the reason he attacked Ukraine is because Russians consider Ukraine the "Eden" of Russian ethnicity and existential to their continued existence as a people. There is a copy of his treatise on Wikipedia that you can read for yourself.

Yes, there are reasons why Putin went after Ukraine that don't apply to other countries.

 

[Say it aint so]

I would ask people to look post WWll and see which countries operations have benefited the most from NATO.
With the War on Terror after 9/11, the Afghanistan war, and the Iraq war, it can be argued it has been the US.

 

[RDKirk]

I would ask people to look post WWll and see which countries operations have benefited the most from NATO.
With the War on Terror after 9/11, the Afghanistan war, and the Iraq war, it can be argued in has been the US.

NATO was the concept of the US. As well as the now-defunct SEATO and CENTO. Yes, they greatly served US interests from the beginning, as did the UN.

And they still do, as I fear we're going to learn the hard way.

 

[RDKirk]

“A lot of people don’t understand this is not only about Ukraine, but…about the world order. You can’t make a deal with Putin because that means basically also a deal with China. If Russia gets what it wants now—it’s not going to stop with Ukraine…”—Finnish President Alexander Stubb

Let me re-iterate what I've said before: Finland resisted joining NATO even in the face of the Soviet Union, but joined NATO in the face of Putin. Putin has made them more anxious of their sovereignty than the Soviet Union ever did.

 

[eclipsenow]

If anyone believes this and expects it, they are truly delusional.

He's paraphrasing me sarcastically and I would ask for more adult behaviour.

I said Trump should say the words, but then back them by funding the Ukrainians.

That's the least he can do given the Ukrainians are the ones dying to maintain the line!

The whining and name calling and schoolyard behaviour that day has so shocked the rest of the world that we are starting to reevaluate our whole relationship with the USA.

Trump has become fully Krasnov!

IYKYK

 

[Laodicean60]

You just come across as willfully ignorant when you pretend Finland wasn't feeling threatened by Russia.

A difference of "feeling" threatened than being threatened. Russia was being threatened, which caused their actions in Obama's term and prior. "Willful ignorance" can be placed on the warmongers, too.

Actually, Putin himself gave a long explanation that the reason he attacked Ukraine is because Russians consider Ukraine the "Eden" of Russian ethnicity and existential to their continued existence as a people

I remember thinking to myself in Obama's admin, "What the hell are we doing in Ukraine? We are busy enough with ME". Putin did complain that the neo nazi was killing eithnic Russians in western half of Ukraine.

This is fixing to be a moot issue because America is leaving Ukraine, and thankfully so. My interest will be to watch Europe after this.

 

[7thKeeper]

A difference of "feeling" threatened than being threatened. Russia was being threatened, which caused their actions in Obama's term and prior. "Willful ignorance" can be placed on the warmongers, too.

This is, once again, utter bull. Russia was in no way threatened by any credible metric, way or other measure except in Russian propaganda.

 

[Nithavela]

A difference of "feeling" threatened than being threatened. Russia was being threatened, which caused their actions in Obama's term and prior. "Willful ignorance" can be placed on the warmongers, too.

I remember thinking to myself in Obama's admin, "What the hell are we doing in Ukraine? We are busy enough with ME". Putin did complain that the neo nazi was killing eithnic Russians in western half of Ukraine.

This is fixing to be a moot issue because America is leaving Ukraine, and thankfully so. My interest will be to watch Europe after this.

I hope you have lots of popcorn while you watch Europe get conquered by Putin.

 

[Laodicean60]

I hope you have lots of popcorn while you watch Europe get conquered by Putin.

Early on, I thought Ukraine would win, but as time went on and with their manpower issues, I saw the smarter thing for Ukraine would be to stop the loss of men and real estate.
All the loss of men is bad for Ukraine's future economy, and the longer the war goes on, the greater the loss of land eastward. The war of attrition was never in Ukraine's favor.

Don't worry. I have popcorn because it will be interesting once we are out. I feel like I'm playing a game of Risk.
I hope you don't mind:

 

[Chesterton]

The USSR was basically a reconstruction of the pre-Revolution Russian Empire. Some of the non-Russian parts declared independence when the Tsarist monarchy fell and then the Red Army recaptured them all calling them "soviet republics". (And, of course, the USSR added conqured lands to its territory during WW 2.

Soviet leadership played a good propaganda game, but everyone knew what "Russification" meant within the USSR.

This is too ridiculous to even respond to.

As others have noted, the post-Soviet states and the old Warsaw Pact nations *begged* NATO to let them join. (And the EU.)

They wanted to ally with the world's remaining superpower? They wanted to jump on board with the winner? What a surprise. I might beg you to pay my utility and grocery bills if I thought you were stupid enough and power-hungry enough to do it.

 

[Richard T]

Hi all,
on dollar parity levels - Russia's military spending looks much smaller than the EU's - just in sheer currency volumes.

But I didn't realise how much cheaper it was to buy military hardware in Russia.

When you compare purchasing power parity, Russia's smaller economy and smaller military cash spending actually adds up to about the EU's because of their smaller hardware price tag!

On the weekend Trump fractured the image of NATO solidarity.​

​

He betrayed the west.​

​

He has sent the 'all clear' signal to Russia and China that they can do whatever they want!​

Power is far more than military spending. It is about capability. The EU would be able to overcome Russia easily. Why? Because their overall economy is bigger. More people, more money and more capability to ramp up. Still, if the USA was silent, other allies would likely get involved and the war of that size with even just conventional weapons would be a disaster.

 

[Hans Blaster]

This is too ridiculous to even respond to.

All you do here is betray your ignorance of 20th century history, particularly of the Soviet Union.

They wanted to ally with the world's remaining superpower? They wanted to jump on board with the winner? What a surprise. I might beg you to pay my utility and grocery bills if I thought you were stupid enough and power-hungry enough to do it.

Did you ever live next to Russia? Well Poland has. They've been invaded by Russia 3 times in the 20th century. (Not to mention the 3 partitions of Poland that went to Russia in the 18th century. Poles know *exactly* why they'd rather be have allies behind the when they face Russia.

 

[Nithavela]

Power is far more than military spending. It is about capability. The EU would be able to overcome Russia easily. Why? Because their overall economy is bigger. More people, more money and more capability to ramp up. Still, if the USA was silent, other allies would likely get involved and the war of that size with even just conventional weapons would be a disaster.

I think what you forget is that the russian economy doesn't have to be as big. They can make war far cheaper. All they need to equip their infantry is some old fatigues, a gun with some ammo and some cheap vodka, plus a sack of potatos for the widow.

 

[Richard T]

I think what you forget is that the russian economy doesn't have to be as big. They can make war far cheaper. All they need to equip their infantry is some old fatigues, a gun with some ammo and some cheap vodka, plus a sack of potatos for the widow.

I think what you forget is that the russian economy doesn't have to be as big. They can make war far cheaper. All they need to equip their infantry is some old fatigues, a gun with some ammo and some cheap vodka, plus a sack of potatos for the widow.

Yes, but even if Russia's acquisition price is half what the EU's is the EU GDP is around 20 trillion US dollars, the Russian economy around 2 trillion. Russia alone can't conquer the Ukraine, it would be game over if they try the EU. Ukraine has put some hurt there, like 20 percent inflation.

 

[Nithavela]

Yes, but even if Russia's acquisition price is half what the EU's is the EU GDP is around 20 trillion US dollars, the Russian economy around 2 trillion. Russia alone can't conquer the Ukraine, it would be game over if they try the EU. Ukraine has put some hurt there, like 20 percent inflation.

Perhaps Europe will truly stop buying russian gas and oil once Russia invades the EU. That would do more damage to the russian economy than our combined armies.