Sabbath should not be discussed in SDA specific forums

[Radagast]

The Sabbath should not be discussed in obscure, specific SDA or Hebraic-Christian, or Judaist / Jewish forum-corners.

As a few other people have pointed out, we have rules here on CF. This is not the place to complain about the rules.

 

[Radagast]

Let's face the facts, Sunday is Roman idolatry rampant throughout Christianity.

And this is why we have rules.

 

[Major1]

<<to add ... for our salvation>>... like who? Acting Divine Judge again!
But sure, even <adding> for the sake of adding, <<is wrong (and) take(s) away from God's grace and salvation whether it be keeping the Sabbath, not eating pork, etc.>>
Absolutely so!
Who denied though? Not GE!

GE, I am sure you are sincere in your understanding of the SDA religion. I do however question if you actually understand the whole of SDA teachings.

You seem to be very defensive about them and I just wonder if you are aware that the view that the Old Testament Sabbath commandment is to be observed unchanged by the church. That is THE teaching of the SDA church which you are defending.

Your defense of keeping the Sabbath which is actually referred to as Sabbatarianism in the SDA church,refers to the belief in which membership in the true church, or even salvation, is conditional upon keeping the Sabbath law. As such,

Sabbatarianism is at the least a form of legalism and at most a denial of salvation by grace. In most cases, the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) must be observed by refraining from work, sports, and travel from sundown Friday evening to sundown Saturday evening. The belief is often accompanied by the observance of Jewish dietary laws and/or other Old Testament feasts.

It is your choice, I just thought you should know exactly what you are defending.

 

[Major1]

Says who?
Says Major1. Says Major1, YOU, acting and replacing God, assuming God's function, playing JUDGE.

Even were it true, <<The bottom line is that keeping the Sabbath for (me / us) is keeping the Law>> -- following Jesus Christ as when God raised Him from the dead "on the Sabbath Day": "of Sabbaths' Feast eating and drinking of Christ the Substance", by faith "not letting (our)selves be judged by ANYONE ... attempting to beguile us with enticing words of our Reward (which is Christ) ... lest any MAN (like you) spoil (us) through philosophy and vain deceit after the tradition of MEN, after the first principles of the WORLD (like your holy sunday), AND NOT AFTER CHRIST".

NOPE! All I did and still do is give the Word of God. IF that cause you to think as you do, then your problem is not with me but with God Himself my friend.

I would suggest that you do not go down the rabbit hole of personal comments but stick to the issue and comments that are relevant.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

go down the rabbit hole

?

Elmer Fudd: Sneak into my theater will you, you wasically wabbit?

 

[Major1]

Christ, or God did NOT say anything about any of their laws passing, being null, inert or non applicable for Hebrew, or gentiles who trust and believe in Him.

If Christ, or God said anything close to that (nullification, or dismissal of any of God's law) I am all ears.

But, I won't hear it from any other human except Christ. It has to be from Him, or God. No human interpretation of a human interpretation of a human interpretation of the word of God.

Something THIS important - the determination of what law of God is to be followed - is something He, or the literal Word of God would detail.

I want it from either of them. Because, if Paul says the sky is blue, and God says it is red, the TRUTH is that the sky is red - no matter what we think.

If you can do what no one else on these forums, or in life even, has been able to do, then I am all ears: truly.

And there it is. No matter what is said, no matter how many Bible verses are quoted to you, YOU are unable to accept them as you are rooted in the teachings of denominations.

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

You are of course free to believe as you wish. May God bless you richly.

 

[tatteredsoul]

And there it is. No matter what is said, no matter how many Bible verses are quoted to you, YOU are unable to accept them as you are rooted in the teachings of denominations.

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

You are of course free to believe as you wish. May God bless you richly.

You are correct.

With all due respect, human, it doesn't matter what you say if you can't back it up with words from Christ, or God Himself. I would say the same thing to Moses, Enoch, John, Peter, Paul, Michael, Uriel, Gabriel, Raphael, Metatron, etc.

God is my first. Christ is my authority. And, from what they have said, I see nothing suggesting that we were ever given permission to STOP following God''s word, and categorically disobey Him because of GRACE.

Nothing.

Now, if you have something from Them that does suggest this, then I am truly all ears. And, I mean that. But, I am not compromising my relationship/spirituality with God because some humans told me I could. Not even for angels.

But, since this is a popular idea in Christianity, I want to know the justification thereof. In other words, where and how can what another human said be traced back to the actual words of God, not just an interpretation of His word?

Where did Christ, or God say that Grace allows us to neglect the law of God? Where do either of them say we don't have to follow things that begin with, "And the LORD God said/commanded..."?

It would be important to mention infighting happened even with the heralded apostles. So, I am not interested in that; I want the meat without fat.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As a few other people have pointed out, we have rules here on CF. This is not the place to complain about the rules.

...plead you, just because the rules suit and protect the vital weak spot in Christian apologetics for you. Apply the rule to every irksome subject, let's see, like putting baptism in only one special category strictly Baptist?

And view this discussion not as a complaint, but as a challenge. A challenge to see the Christian Sabbath in its Christian setting and character right through the Scriptures, which setting and character are out and out Soteriological rather than anything else it usually is portrayed as -- e.g., as a 'creation institution' or 'Jewish sabbath' or 'old covenant commandment'.

Now see what you are actually doing. The only answer or contribution you can come up with against this or any discussion on the Sabbath, conveniently and face-saving has been to say it’s <<to complain about the rules>> and imply it breaks <the rules> of the forum!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And this is why we have rules.

Yea, obviously!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE, I am sure you are sincere in your understanding of the SDA religion. I do however question if you actually understand the whole of SDA teachings.

You seem to be very defensive about them and I just wonder if you are aware that the view that the Old Testament Sabbath commandment is to be observed unchanged by the church. That is THE teaching of the SDA church which you are defending.

Your defense of keeping the Sabbath which is actually referred to as Sabbatarianism in the SDA church,refers to the belief in which membership in the true church, or even salvation, is conditional upon keeping the Sabbath law. As such,

Sabbatarianism is at the least a form of legalism and at most a denial of salvation by grace. In most cases, the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) must be observed by refraining from work, sports, and travel from sundown Friday evening to sundown Saturday evening. The belief is often accompanied by the observance of Jewish dietary laws and/or other Old Testament feasts.

It is your choice, I just thought you should know exactly what you are defending.

I am the only real protestor against and opponent of Seventh-day Adventism in the world for the past half a century, while at the same time I have been the only real protestor against and opponent of Sunday and Sunday's church, world-wide Christiandom so addicted to and enslaved by its observance and veneration.

No; you do not know me or <<exactly what (I am) defending>>. Because it is gotten rid of together with the usual 'Sabbath garbage' daily produced by the megatons the world over, just like the great industrial countries dump their refuse in poor countries for the clink of a copper coin per pantechnicon.

 

[1John2:4]

It is amazing what people believe. Most of which is denominational tradition, not biblical.

I am SDA and not ashamed to admit it. I have studied for fifty years and have been in all mainstream denominations just to end up against the wall of tradition, which most of the time goes contrary to God's word. The SDA denomination is the only denomination that does not limit the bible to the church fathers.

If I started a thread on the public forums about having to follow the ten commandments it would be deleted, like some of my other posts are, and this one probably will be too.

Yeah I think sticking with the SDA forums, where people actually encourage each other when they share truth instead of arguing about everything. Personally I prefer to encourage instead of argue, far more people will appreciate it that way. Even then the truth is never popular, and if Jesus were here today attending any denomination they would disfellowship Him and even crucify Him because Christianity today has strayed so far from His original principles, especially about reproof and judging. Jesus said in John:7:24: "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." I pray every morning that the Lord would remove the beam so I can help people see the splinter in their eye. I consider my posts as observations not judging.

If you would like you can visit the Messianic Forum too, people are very kind and most of them, if not all, observe Sabbath The SDA forum has some very kind people too.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If you would like you can visit the Messianic Forum too, people are very kind and most of them, if not all, observe Sabbath The SDA forum has some very kind people too.

Yes, human kindness ... who has not experienced (suffered) that as well. The only genuine kindness I have seen in human beings has been that of a handful of family, purest of which, has been my wife's. Thank God for Susan.

Because I have NEVER been but disillusioned by church's type of kindness. No, this is not off topic! Again it is church sacerdotalism every church of its own kind has more than enough of -- per dictionary definition, power achieved by priests and pastors over people's mind, opinions and actions "through sophistry and guile".
Kindness that like a fashion dress assumingly conceals but unassumingly parades human character in all it's pretentiousness.

Covert false doctrine is best sold by 'Christian kindness' -- call it 'love'! In this case the merchandise is the myriads of false 'sabbaths'. "We keep ..." smile ... and it is Truth out through the backdoor!

 

[1John2:4]

Yes, human kindness ... who has not experienced (suffered) that as well. The only genuine kindness I have seen in human beings has been that of a handful of family, purest of which, has been my wife's. Thank God for Susan.

Because I have NEVER been but disillusioned by church's type of kindness. No, this is not off topic! Again it is church sacerdotalism every church of its own kind has more than enough of -- per dictionary definition, power achieved by priests and pastors over people's mind, opinions and actions "through sophistry and guile".
Kindness that like a fashion dress assumingly conceals but unassumingly parades human character in all it's pretentiousness.

Covert false doctrine is best sold by 'Christian kindness' -- call it 'love'! In this case the merchandise is the myriads of false 'sabbaths'. "We keep ..." smile ... and it is Truth out through the backdoor!

Yes, human kindness ... who has not experienced (suffered) that as well. The only genuine kindness I have seen in human beings has been that of a handful of family, purest of which, has been my wife's. Thank God for Susan.

Because I have NEVER been but disillusioned by church's type of kindness. No, this is not off topic! Again it is church sacerdotalism every church of its own kind has more than enough of -- per dictionary definition, power achieved by priests and pastors over people's mind, opinions and actions "through sophistry and guile".
Kindness that like a fashion dress assumingly conceals but unassumingly parades human character in all it's pretentiousness.

Covert false doctrine is best sold by 'Christian kindness' -- call it 'love'! In this case the merchandise is the myriads of false 'sabbaths'. "We keep ..." smile ... and it is Truth out through the backdoor!

Thanks for your reply, I do agree with you that truth has been sacrificed but they are still our brothers and sisters they are not the enemy. The enemy has snuck in from the beginning and stole the truth from the church. The Sabbath is not the only thing Christianity disagrees on they disagree on everything that is why we have over 3000 different denominations. I just read a forum about weather or not to keep Halloween. The enemy has removed the plumb line(law) from the church now everything is relative. Just look at the issue the church is having with same sex marriage. We have to prayerfully help our brothers and sisters in love to see the truth.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Thanks for your reply, I do agree with you that truth has been sacrificed but they are still our brothers and sisters they are not the enemy. The enemy has snuck in from the beginning and stole the truth from the church. The Sabbath is not the only thing Christianity disagrees on they disagree on everything that is why we have over 3000 different denominations. I just read a forum about weather or not to keep Halloween. The enemy has removed the plumb line(law) from the church now everything is relative. Just look at the issue the church is having with same sex marriage. We have to prayerfully help our brothers and sisters in love to see the truth.

All true ... but ...

Christianity is not so divided after all. Christianity is on nothing more united and of the same opinion as on Sunday and the REASON -- allegedly -- for its observance and veneration. As for the REASON for Sunday observance: there is not the slightest crack of a division; not even the Sabbatharians differ -- with one voice they all take Justin Martyr for the final say.

Christiandom – Sabbatharians included – in totality claims Christ's RESURRECTION for REASON why it hallows Sunday the First Day of the week. This is the most audacious annexation—robbery in broad daylight—of the Divine for the mundane in the history of mankind, and which has formed both human society and its moral values like no ideology ever did. Its FRAUD until today justifies and accommodates every heresy that through the centuries followed and accumulated in the wake of its progression.

 

[1John2:4]

All true ... but ...

Christianity is not so divided after all. Christianity is on nothing more united and of the same opinion as on Sunday and the REASON -- allegedly -- for its observance and veneration. As for the REASON for Sunday observance: there is not the slightest crack of a division; not even the Sabbatharians differ -- with one voice they all take Justin Martyr for the final say.

Christiandom – Sabbatharians included – in totality claims Christ's RESURRECTION for REASON why it hallows Sunday the First Day of the week. This is the most audacious annexation—robbery in broad daylight—of the Divine for the mundane in the history of mankind, and which has formed both human society and its moral values like no ideology ever did. Its FRAUD until today justifies and accommodates every heresy that through the centuries followed and accumulated in the wake of its progression.

Agreed, I have read some of Justin Martyr an it is so anti-Semitic and full of pride, it makes me so sad that wonderful people are being deceived by these doctrines. It has caused so much separation, and I suppose that was the plan of the enemy all along to steal (the Torah from the church) to kill (Spanish Inquisitions, Crusades, Holocaust) and destroy(make God's beloved exactly like the world). Even when we come into truth about His Instructions we have traps and snares that lie in wait for us. I guess we must all arm ourselves because the battle is ongoing until death. Thanks again for the reply

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

But isn't it biblically true that EVERYDAY is God's day because He created all the days.

There is only ONE day that He Hallowed and Sanctified however.. the seventh day.

If you do not steal, do not commit adultry, do not covet your neighbours stuff and "observe" any of the other Commandments, then what right do you have to segregate the 4th as "works"? Are you not doing works, or better yet, showing works when you don't steal? How is that different than observing the Sabbath as God intended us to, incommunion with Him sepreate fro the goings on in the secular world? We are merely showing good works because of our love for God and being obedient to what He has asked... just like you when you don't sleep around on your wife, or even lust after another woman.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Notice the rules haven't prevented worldwide disintegration in overwhelming wickednesses and evil beyond belief, including in all the religious clubs, except for the remnant YHWH set aside for HIMSELF, wherever they are at any given time.

So 'who' has the rules ,
and what set of rules ?

And this is why we have rules.

 

[1John2:4]

There is only ONE day that He Hallowed and Sanctified however.. the seventh day.

If you do not steal, do not commit adultry, do not covet your neighbours stuff and "observe" any of the other Commandments, then what right do you have to segregate the 4th as "works"? Are you not doing works, or better yet, showing works when you don't steal? How is that different than observing the Sabbath as God intended us to, incommunion with Him sepreate fro the goings on in the secular world? We are merely showing good works because of our love for God and being obedient to what He has asked... just like you when you don't sleep around on your wife, or even lust after another woman.

lol, so ironic folks calling the Sabbath works, on the Sabbath we do no work

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

lol, so ironic folks calling the Sabbath works, on the Sabbath we do no work

Yes, and saying for instance "If you stop at a red light because it is red because the law says to stop at a red light, then you're condemned guilty already because by doing this you are "under the law" ! "

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

lol, so ironic folks calling the Sabbath works, on the Sabbath we do no work

LOL, so ironic folks talk THEIR Sabbath WORKS on the Sabbath but NEVER GOD'S WORKS on the Sabbath and of the Sabbath.