Sabbath question from seeker

[ricker]

There are those who are always learning but they never come to a knowledge of truth. Everything that is said, they deny or inject some form of doubt and never contribute anything of substance. The first day of the week had no special meaning to the early church. As a matter of fact, at one point Paul travelled many miles on the first day by foot and by boat. Paul even gave specific instructions to the church to have them gather stuff from their homes and barns on the first day so when he returned he could collect it for the suffering brothers and sisters. Paul understood how gathering all this needed stuff would be time consuming and labor intensive so he specifically tells them to do it on the first day.

Yes, Paul didn't think the first day of the week was the Sabbath and neither do millions of Christians today.

Early Christians did meet on the first day of the week, even before your beloved Constantine, and they called it the Lord's Day, seperate and not the same as the Sabbath.

Why in the world would Paul tell people to gather their money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh when they congregated???? There is absolutely no reason to be specific about gathering the money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why in the world would Paul tell people to gather their money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh when they congregated???? There is absolutely no reason to be specific about gathering the money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh.

Actually, the instruction to gather their tithe or offerings at the beginning of the week was premised on the principle to pay God first from your labours, to put Him first and not relegate Him to an after thought at the end of the week.

Tell me, when you put aside your tithes, do you wait til everything else is taken care of and then see what's left? Or do you take your tithe off the top (the first of the week) to ensure that you have it in store for the next service?

 

[Joe67]

1 Cor 16:1-2
6:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. KJV

This is not speaking of tithe and any obligatory offerings. It was kept by each individual until Paul came. The individual did not have to gather it together at the last minute. It was for the purpose of caring for the poor. There had been a drought in that region and the believers in Judea were suffering.

Acts 11:27-30
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul. KJV

Then a later event after the Acts 15 history.
Gal 2:10
10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. KJV

The Gentiles were free from obligatory worship and monetary requirements. God is not worshiped with men's hands as though he needed anything. We do not pay him anything. He is not worshiped in buildings made with men's hands.

Joe

 

[k4c]

Yes, Paul didn't think the first day of the week was the Sabbath and neither do millions of Christians today.

Early Christians did meet on the first day of the week, even before your beloved Constantine, and they called it the Lord's Day, seperate and not the same as the Sabbath.

Why in the world would Paul tell people to gather their money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh when they congregated???? There is absolutely no reason to be specific about gathering the money on the first day of the week, if it was to be given on the seventh.

Show me where the disciples said the first day as the Lord's day?

Who said they layed by in store money on the first day? If there is a place that has no water or food for the saints what good will money do? I can see God's people getting together food, supplies and water from their homes, like some translations say, so Paul could take the supplies to the suffering saints. This would be labor intensive and time consuming. This is why he specifically tells them to do it on the first day, as opposed to the Sabbath day.

 

[ricker]

[e=k4c;57677741]Show me where the disciples said the first day as the Lord's day?

Red herring. It is well known the early Christians called the first day of the week the Lord's day long before Constantine.

Who said they layed by in store money on the first day? If there is a place that has no water or food for the saints what good will money do? I can see God's people getting together food, supplies and water from their homes, like some translations say, so Paul could take the supplies to the suffering saints. This would be labor intensive and time consuming. This is why he specifically tells them to do it on the first day, as opposed to the Sabbath day.

Food supplies and such would keep better if they weren't sitting around for almost a week before being given.

Admit it, there is no reason to say the first day of the week, rather than the second day, or throughout the week, or whatever, unless the first day held special significance.

What seems to be lost here is that Paul could come on any day of the week. Why indeed lay up money on the first day?

NIV 1 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

 

[k4c]

Red herring. It is well known the early Christians called the first day of the week the Lord's day long before Constantine.




Food supplies and such would keep better if they weren't sitting around for almost a week before being given.

Admit it, there is no reason to say the first day of the week, rather than the second day, or throughout the week, or whatever, unless the first day held special significance.

What seems to be lost here is that Paul could come on any day of the week. Why indeed lay up money on the first day?

NIV 1 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

You are asking me to forget the seventh day to keep it holy as clearly defined by God in the fourth commandment because the early church called the first day the Lord's day? Can you show me where Jesus or the disciples called the first day of the week the Lord's day?

Food and supplies in them days came in the form of livestock, large jars of water, grain and whatever else.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

You are asking me to forget the seventh day to keep it holy as clearly defined by God in the fourth commandment because the early church called the first day the Lord's day?

To be fair, I'm not sure Ricker has ever asked you to forget the seventh day for that reason or any other reason. Ricker . . . is that your intent?

As far as I can tell, the non-sabbatarians aren't trying to push a specific day for corporate worship.

BFA

 

[ricker]

To be fair, I'm not sure Ricker has ever asked you to forget the seventh day for that reason or any other reason. Ricker . . . is that your intent?

As far as I can tell, the non-sabbatarians aren't trying to push a specific day for corporate worship.

BFA

Thank you, BFA.

If you want to worship/rest on the Sabbath, k4c, I certainly won't judge you or even think less of you. You have that freedom in Christ! I go to an SDA church occasionally and usually get a blessing from the service. Almost all my relatives are Adventists (but they all live far away from me). I believe many of them are saved Christians, as was my father who passed away a couple years ago.

I do like to look at specific Bible passages for what they say, not trying to make them fit a predetermined doctrine. I think the verses we have been discussing are examples.

 

[ricker]

You are asking me to forget the seventh day to keep it holy as clearly defined by God in the fourth commandment because the early church called the first day the Lord's day? Can you show me where Jesus or the disciples called the first day of the week the Lord's day?

Food and supplies in them days came in the form of livestock, large jars of water, grain and whatever else.

The verse I quoted said "money in keeping with your income".

What in the world difference does it make anyway if it were dry goods or money they were setting aside on the first day of the week? Isn't the concept the same?

 

[ricker]

You are asking me to forget the seventh day to keep it holy as clearly defined by God in the fourth commandment because the early church called the first day the Lord's day? Can you show me where Jesus or the disciples called the first day of the week the Lord's day?

Can you show me where Jesus or the disciples called the Sabbath the "Lord's day"?

I can provide quotes where early Christians long before Constantine called the first day of the week the Lord's day.

 

[ricker]

Originally Posted by EastCoastRemnant

Let me ask you a question that will hopefully show what I'm talking about...

do you believe that Satan tempted Eve in the garden?
​

Yes, I believe that the serpent probably was Satan in visible form tempting Eve. Revelation says:

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.

Bump for ECR, I'm interested where this is going.

 

[k4c]

Can you show me where Jesus or the disciples called the Sabbath the "Lord's day"?

I can provide quotes where early Christians long before Constantine called the first day of the week the Lord's day.

The whole OT calls the Sabbath the Lord's day and Jesus Himself says He's Lord of the Sabbath. Now, can you show me where Jesus or the disciples said the first day is the Lord's day?

You say you have no problem with me keeping the Sabbath. Would you have a problem with me stealing?

 

[mandelduke]

Exodus

20.8:Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.


I will keep this short but I would like to know how you personally keep Sabbath, what you regard as Holy and what you would not find to be appropriate. I won't get in to the debate regarding the Saturday/Sunday issue as it's all quite peripheral to me but I do acknowledge the importance of a rest day so I would love to get your thoughts on it.

I will tell you how I would like to keep the Sabbath. I would like to be on a river bank with a fishing poll, talking to God and praising him for all he has done for me. But I work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, so that’s not going to happen.

 

[k4c]

I will tell you how I would like to keep the Sabbath. I would like to be on a river bank with a fishing poll, talking to God and praising him for all he has done for me. But I work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, so that’s not going to happen.

I'm a married man who loves my wife but being faithful to her is not going to happen.

 

[ricker]

[;57685527]The whole OT calls the Sabbath the Lord's day and Jesus Himself says He's Lord of the Sabbath. Now, can you show me where Jesus or the disciples said the first day is the Lord's day?

No, the OT never calls the Sabbath the "Lord's Day". (or the NT). Why do you write such things? Do you think deception actually helps?

You say you have no problem with me keeping the Sabbath. Would you have a problem with me stealing?[/]

If you steal or not is between you and God. All sins can be forgiven. You know quite well my position is that the Sabbath was a ceremonial sign between God and Israel as I believe expressly explained in the Bible. If you don't believe that I can accept it, but don't try to say I think immorality is OK.

 

[ricker]

I will tell you how I would like to keep the Sabbath. I would like to be on a river bank with a fishing poll, talking to God and praising him for all he has done for me. But I work 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, so that’s not going to happen.

I actually don't work at any "job" on Saturday and work a part time job every Sunday afternoon. Go figure.

Sorry you have to work 10/7. I hope you like your work!

 

[ricker]

I'm a married man who loves my wife but being faithful to her is not going to happen.

Doesn't that break one of the ten, besides being immoral in the eyes of even modern society? (I know, your trying to make a point)

 

[mandelduke]

I'm a married man who loves my wife but being faithful to her is not going to happen.

Maybe that’s why when you and your wife are in bed together, she is not thinking of you?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Bump for ECR, I'm interested where this is going.

I already answered it in post #80...

 

[ricker]

By the same method you used to identify who the serpent was, by letting scripture interpret intself, is the same way we know that the Lord's day was the day that Jesus said He was the Lord of.... Sabbath

You can say that, and I don't think the Rev. comment is proof that John thought Sunday was the Lord's day, but it is interesting that the phrase isn't used anywhere else in the Bible, and is used shorly therafter by Christians to mean the first day of the week.

I wouldn't base doctrine on the assuption that the serpent was satan, either. The Bible says sin entered the world through one man, Adam. It doesn't say with certainty that Satan tempted Eve.

The Bible does say with certainty that the Sabbath was given as an exclusive sign and covenent to the nation of Israel, and that the clean/unlean laws are no longer in effect. Those are the passages I would base doctrine on.