Sabbath Forever!

[HARK!]

When he died on the cross, he did away with the outward form of the law and the Sabbath (Colossians 2:13-17.

Colossians 2:14 (CLV)

erasing the handwriting of the decrees against us, which was hostile to us, and has taken it away out of the midst, nailing it to the cross,


Lexicon :: Strong's G1378 - dogma

δόγμα
Transliteration
dogma
Pronunciation
do'g-mä (Key)

Part of Speech
neuter noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From the base of δοκέω (G1380)
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 2:230,178

KJV Translation Count — Total: 5x
The KJV translates Strong's G1378 in the following manner: decree (3x), ordinance (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. doctrine, decree, ordinance
   1. of public decrees
      
      
   2. of the Roman Senate
      
      
   3. of rulers
2. the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment
   
   
3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
δόγμα dógma, dog'-mah; from the base of G1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 1378: δόγμα
δόγμα, δογματος, τό (from δοκέω, and equivalent to τό δεδογμενον), an opinion, a judgment (Plato, others), doctrine, decree, ordinance;
1. of public decrees (as τῆς πόλεως, Plato, legg. 1, p. 644 d.; of the Roman Senate (Polybius 6, 13, 2); Herodian, 7, 10, 8 (5, Bekker edition)): of rulers, Luke 2:1; Acts 17:7; Hebrews 11:23 Lachmann (Theod. in Daniel 2:13; Daniel 3:10; Daniel 4:3; Daniel 6:13, etc. — where the Sept. uses other words).
2. of the rules and requirements of the law of Moses, 3Macc. 1:3; διατήρησις τῶν ἁγίων δογμάτων, Philo, alleg. legg. i., § 16; carrying a suggestion of severity, and of threatened punishment, τόν νόμον τῶν ἐντολῶν ἐν δογμασι, the law containing precepts in the form of decrees (A. V. the law of commandments contained in ordinances), Ephesians 2:15; τό καθ' ἡμῶν χειρόγραφον τοῖς δογμασι equivalent to τό τοῖς δογμασι (dative of instrument) by ὄν καθ' ἡμῶν, the bond against us by its decrees, Colossians 2:14; cf. Winers Grammar, § 31, 10 Note 1 (Buttmann, 92 (80); on both passages see Lightfoot on Colossians, the passage cited).
3. of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living: Acts 16:4. (Of all the precepts of the Christian religion: βεβαιωθῆναι ἐν τοῖς δόγμασιν τοῦ κυρίου καί τῶν ἀποστόλων, Ignatius ad Magnes. 13, 1 [ET]; of the precepts (`sentences' or tenets) of philosophers, in the later secular writings: Cicero, acad. 2, 9, 27de suis decretis, quae philosophi vocant dogmata.) (On the use of the word in general, see Lightfoot as above; (cf. 'Teaching' etc. 11, 3 [ET]).)


Source: Genesis 1:1 (NASB)

Now why would Sha'ul use the word δόγμα in this verse?

I believe that he meant what he said, and said what he meant.

Anytime Paul is referring to THE LAW of Yahweh he used the phrase ho nomos which is
“The Law” in Greek.

So if THE LAW wasn't nailed to the (stake) pale; what was?


DECREE - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
DECREE, n. L. To judge; to divide.
1. Judicial decision or determination of a litigated cause; as a decree of the court of
chancery. The decision of a court of equity is called a decree; that of a court of law, a
judgment.

This is the gift of grace. Put into context, Sha'ul is not contradicting Yahshua, who said that the LAW will not pass away before heaven or earth. He's not telling us that we can live like lawless Hellians under grace because the LAW has been demolished. He's telling us that the judgements (under penalty of death) of our past sins are covered, through Yahshua, by the grace of Yahweh.


Grace be to you.

Glory to Yahweh.

 

[HARK!]

Therefore, the early church could decide on which day to worship and rest. They chose Sunday because on it Jesus rose from the dead.

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

 

[DamianWarS]

Again, how do you propose to reach that which is at a deeper level of discipline and understanding, while bypassing the rudimentary elements of the oracles of YHWH?

Who said anything about ignore? I feel you've decided my views and are responding to whatever it is you have decided. I am speaking about a discussion of the deeper meanings of the sabbath. Is not the sabbath worthy of it?

 

[HARK!]

Who said anything about ignore? I feel you've decided my views and are responding to whatever it is you have decided. I am speaking about a discussion of the deeper meanings of the sabbath. Is not the sabbath worthy of it?

Well after you presented the false dichotomy between observing the Sabbath, and accepting the Sabbath as a gift; I was under the impression that you felt that we are not compelled to keep YHWH's Sabbath as the Torah states.

You must see sabbath as something to obey and not as a gift to receive.

Did I misunderstand you?

Do you agree that YHWH's command to observe his Sabbath stands?

 

[DamianWarS]

Well after you presented the false dichotomy

I'm getting the impression you're saying things just to see how I react to them which would be a poor way of engaging someone. I have explicitly told you I reject such a dichotomy yet you continue to insist on the opposite and without being rude, I'm not quite sure why. the sabbath is not about isolated components, however, those components may still be intellectually observed but the sabbath itself only exists as a whole indivisible and to obverse and receive the sabbath it must be it's whole where a focus on an isolated part is incomplete.

Do you agree that YHWH's command to observe his Sabbath stands?

that's a loaded question that needs a lot to unpack. I do not reject any of the law but I also am quite sure we have different understandings of it.

I am still confused about why there is such an aversion with discussing the depth of the sabbath. You are a little flip-floppy on this and quite defensive, you have agreed there is depth but then later reject it then just ignore it but never going further than the surface of the law or explaining your inconsistencies. Is not the sabbath worthy of such a discussion?

 

[Scott Husted]

In the Beginning:


(CLV) Gn 2:3
And Elohim blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, for in it He ceased from all His work that Elohim had created by making it.

(CLV) Ex 20:11
For in six days Yahweh dealt with the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and He stopped on the seventh day. Therefore, Yahweh blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it


The Time of Moses:


(CLV) Lv 16:31
It is a sabbath of cessation for you, and you will humble your souls; it is an eonian statute. (FOREVER)

(CLV) Lv 24:8
Sabbath day by sabbath day shall he arrange it before Yahweh regularly on behalf of the sons of Israel, an eonian covenant.
(An everlasting covenant)

In the Time of Yahshua:


(CLV) Lk 4:16
And He came to Nazareth, where He was reared, and, according to His custom ion the day of the sabbaths, He entered into the synagogue and rose to read.


After Yahshua's Ascension:


(CLV) Hb 4:9
Consequently a sabbatism is left for the people of God.

(CLV) Hb 4:10
For he who is entering into His stopping, he also stops from his works even as God from His own.

(CLV) Hb 4:11
We should be endeavoring, then, to be entering into that stopping, lest anyone should be falling into the same example of stubbornness.

(CLV) Ac 17:2
Now, as was Paul's custom, he entered to them, and on three sabbaths he argues with them from the scriptures,


The Great Time of Trouble:

(CLV) Mt 24:20
Now be praying that your flight may not be occurring in winter, nor yet on a sabbath,

(CLV) Mt 24:21
for then shall be great affliction, such as has not occurred from the beginning of the world till now; neither under any circumstances may be occurring.


In the Kingdom to Come:

(CLV) Isa 66:22
For just as the new heavens and the new earth which I shall make shall stand before Me, averring is Yahweh, So your seed and your name shall stand.

(CLV) Isa 66:23
And it will come to be, as often as the new moon comes in its monthly time, And as often as the sabbath comes in its sabbath cycle, All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says Yahweh.

I dont believe because God was tired that he blessed the 7th day, week, or year, rather the first picture you see of not entering into this is Adam who lived 70 years short of the seventh day.

 

[NW82]

hmmm "read this book if you want to see my point"???

I see a lot of people here posting in favor the Bible Sabbath that are not SDA - is it your claim that they would all change their doctrine as soon as Adventists stop quoting the Bible - saying the 7th day is the Sabbath???

I didn't make any claims at all...not sure where you're getting that. I provided a link to the audio version of the book, in where the author explains his point. You should make your own conclusions. All I did was provide a resource and gave reference to what the resource is about. Maybe actually know the material before attacking and making statements about something I didn't do?

 

[BobRyan]

I often refer to this irrefutable detail showing that almost all Christian scholars agree with the basic Bible detail that all TEN of the TEN commandments are written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant -- including the Sabbath Commandment

like this
=================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

This book by Chris White,
Should Christians Keep The Sabbath? - A Refutation of Seventh Day Adventism and the Hewbrew Roots Movement, directly addresses the Sabbath and its applications to the New Covenant, through the use of scripture. It's essentially a Bible study he made into a book. The below video is actually an audio of the book itself. I suggest a listen for those interested.
...

hmmm "read this book if you want to see my point"???

I see a lot of people here posting in favor the Bible Sabbath that are not SDA - is it your claim that they would all change their doctrine as soon as Adventists stop quoting the Bible - saying the 7th day is the Sabbath???

I didn't make any claims at all...not sure where you're getting that.

well...let's see..I wonder who posted this --

This book by Chris White,
Should Christians Keep The Sabbath? - A Refutation of Seventh Day Adventism

Looks like your own post making that coonnection

I provided a link to the audio version of the book, in where the author explains his point.

I leave it to you to summarize your own recommended book for us - rather than having us slog through a couple of hours trying to see where your point may be in that material.

 

[NW82]

I often refer to this irrefutable detail showing that almost all Christian scholars agree with the basic Bible detail that all TEN of the TEN commandments are written on heart and mind under the NEW Covenant -- including the Sabbath Commandment

like this
=================================
I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.



hmmm "read this book if you want to see my point"???

I see a lot of people here posting in favor the Bible Sabbath that are not SDA - is it your claim that they would all change their doctrine as soon as Adventists stop quoting the Bible - saying the 7th day is the Sabbath???



well...let's see..I wonder who posted this --



Looks like your own post making that coonnection



I leave it to you to summarize your own recommended book for us - rather than having us slog through a couple of hours trying to see where your point may be in that material.

So by your logic I'm making a claim by posting the title of a book? That makes no logical sense. In order to make a claim, I'd have to make a statement. I never made any claim or the statement that you're putting in quotation marks, of "read this book if you want to see my point". Stop putting words in my mouth, what I actually said was "It's essentially a Bible study he made into a book"; so all I ever stated was that the book was based off of a bible study, which is a factual statement. I also said, "I suggest a listen for those interested", so if you're not interested, the statement does not apply to you, therefore you should just ignore it. STOP reading into it and take the literal words at face value.

 

[HARK!]

I have explicitly told you I reject such a dichotomy yet you continue to insist on the opposite and without being rude, I'm not quite sure why.

You are incorrect.

You must see sabbath as something to obey and not as a gift to receive.

You presented the false dichotomy when you used the word "not" in this sentence.

Speaking of rudeness, I find it offensive that you make statements about what my perspective "must" be . You don't set mandates for my perspective.

I have no interest in continuing in this folly.

If you would like to start over, without directing your comments toward me personally, and discuss the Bible; I'm willing to accommodate you.

 

[HARK!]

I dont believe because God was tired that he blessed the 7th day, week, or year, rather the first picture you see of not entering into this is Adam who lived 70 years short of the seventh day.

How do you figure that Adam lived 70 years short of the seventh day?

 

[DamianWarS]

If you would like to start over, without directing your comments toward me personally, and discuss the Bible; I'm willing to accommodate you.

I've invited you to discuss the Sabbath's deeper meanings and I continue to invite you to do this.

 

[HARK!]

I've invited you to discuss the Sabbath's deeper meanings and I continue to invite you to do this.

OK let's go deeper.

Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

How do you suppose observing the Sabbath enables us to know that YHWH sets us apart for him?

His says that it is a sign between him and us. I can understand how he can read the sign; but what are we to read from this sign?

 

[DamianWarS]

OK let's go deeper.

Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

How do you suppose observing the Sabbath enables us to know that YHWH sets us apart for him?

His says that it is a sign between him and us. I can understand how he can read the sign; but what are we to read from this sign?

Shallow/surface meanings are the physical and concrete. They are earthly things and actions that we (humans) have the ability to do such as found in ritual and ordinances, they are a shadow of the deeper meanings and they seek a specific response from God as their instructions tell but do so in ignorance of the meanings. The deeper meanings are the abstracts and spiritual things, what the shadow points to and what it is really about. They are of heaven and are about what God does and we are dependant upon God for these things. The two are indivisible.

A shadow is a perfect representation of what casts it and it is created by light directed on the object. The two are one and cannot be separated; we cannot remove the shadow or object from each other so long as their is light, without the light we see neither object nor shadow.

For example sacrificing a lamb is a surface ordinance that we have the power to do but it points to Christ crucified as The Lamb which Christ does for us which is the deeper meanings.

Circumcision might help us understand the relationship of this sign that you bring up for the Sabbath as it uses the same language. For example in Genesis 17:9-14 the we see a lot of similarities that can help us navigate the Sabbath

Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.

Circumcision then is a sign of a covenant with God. This is a covenant meant to be kept for all generations; a everlasting covenant. Sabbath has these qualities as well.

So what is the role of circumcision as a sign today, how is it still valued and kept or do we no longer keep it? (I think we still do keep it regardless of the physical) Because this answer will help us approach the deeper meanings of the Sabbath.

 

[GPendu]

Constantine decreed (March 7, 321) dies Solis—day of the sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest just prior to the Council of Nicaea:

“On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.”

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. (Canon 29 [A.D. 360]). (The Church Council of Laodicea circa 364 CE)

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third (fourth) Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day." The Catholic Encyclopedia Topic: Ten Commandments, 2nd paragraph

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, catholic, apostolic church of Christ."--Episcopalian Bishop Seymour said in "Why We Keep Sunday."

The Sabbath debate could be a very long one.

Is Sabbath a moral law or a ceremonial law. A critic analysis will reveal that it is a moral law and a ceremonial law, but more of a ceremonial law. That can easily be proved, deductively.

The reason I say deductively is that deductive proofs of scripture are more concrete and solid, than inductive proofs.

One quickly ask the question; Should Christians keep the Sabbath? My question is, Are they keeping it as a pre-requisite for their salvation? As long as they keep the Sabbath, not relying on their keeping of it for their salvation, -perfect. Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ and 0% me, so to speak.

Then, what about those that keep Sunday as a Sabbath, -to these I can only say there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath, except a man made(Romish church doctrine).

And then what about those that worship on Sunday, not regarding it as a Sabbath?

Christians are free to worship on any day, in fact Christians worship God everyday.

 

[Minister Monardo]

The Sabbath is a Memorial
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
John 8:
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered Him, We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been
in bondage to anyone.(????) How can You say, You will be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

For the Sabbath to even begin to set you free, you must abide in the intended Remembrance.
Here, clearly failed to accomplish the Father's intent.

 

[Scott Husted]

How do you figure that Adam lived 70 years short of the seventh day?

By Peter's estimate of a day in the life of God. All the years of Adam were 930.

 

[HARK!]

By Peter's estimate of a day in the life of God. All the years of Adam were 930.

Really?

I don't recall Peter, nor anyone else for that matter, mentioning how many sabbaths elapsed before Adam ate of the tree.

 

[Scott Husted]

Really?

I don't recall Peter, nor anyone else for that matter, mentioning how many sabbaths elapsed before Adam ate of the tree.

Was a thousand years as one day an erroneous statement by Peter ... a number he pulled out of thin air? (Psalms 90:4). I guess you can have the opinion that it was just an under generalization of a day in the life of someone who has no beginning of days ...

Does God get tired of course not ... the sabbath was created for man, and in it the mystery of God was also in hidden form.

Adam was created on the 6th day and lived 930 years, 70 years short of entering into the seventh day by that estimate.

Your right about the sabbaths, no one in the Bible is said to have ever spoke of or kept one other than God until Moses' time; though in types they did ...

Ever studied how many sabbaths elapsed between the first sabbath and the first sabbath man keeps, and the events that fall on those days, weeks, years?

 

[honey badger]

Ever studied how many sabbaths elapsed between the first sabbath and the first sabbath man keeps, and the events that fall on those days, weeks, years?

now that is the mother of all questions ........


i take it you mean the first sabbath which we are in, and the first which man keeps and by this do you mean all men or are you meaning Jesus ?


only in part yes ... the 70 x 7 ... 490 or 49 which is summed up by 50 as in the jubilee which relates to Pentecost as in the feast in the midst where Christ is crucified, to be honest i have pondered very little upon the 62 weeks and the 1 week .... this prophecy of Daniel for some reason has eluded my studies .... off the top of my head if you add them up you get 63 which leaves 7 short of the seventy ....

glad your here and delighted your posting dear friend