Sabbath Day - Orthodox

[ArmyMatt]

That actually doesn’t answer my question though. I am asking if Orthodox observe the sabbath according to the commandment?

and again, yes, but we do in the light of Christ Whose death is what the OT pointed to.

 

[Union With Christ]

and again, yes, but we do in the light of Christ Whose death is what the OT pointed to.

As a Christian I understand that it is necessary to remember Christ always and especially on the sabbath.

My question though is about sabbath rest and whether or not the Orthodox rest from their labors according to the 4th commandment and observe the sabbath.

 

[ArmyMatt]

As a Christian I understand that it is necessary to remember Christ always and especially on the sabbath.

My question though is about sabbath rest and whether or not the Orthodox rest from their labors according to the 4th commandment and observe the sabbath.

again, the reason the Sabbath is the Sabbath is because it is the day God rested from His works in the Tomb. that's true whether you rest on Saturday or Sunday.

plus, one of the says Joshua marched Israel around Jericho was a Sabbath day.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

As a Christian I understand that it is necessary to remember Christ always and especially on the sabbath.

My question though is about sabbath rest and whether or not the Orthodox rest from their labors according to the 4th commandment and observe the sabbath.

I think the issue is that our phronema (or mindset, if you will) reads the OT in light of Christ. So, that means the Church interprets a lot of it "spiritually" whereas you might be reading the OT legalistically. We're speaking a different language from you, as well as many Protestants.

Holy Saturday was when God "rested" in His Tomb (and went down into Sheol/Hades and preached the Gospel to the prophets of old). Sunday is the day of Resurrection, so that's why we celebrate on Sunday. It's the "Eighth day of the New Creation." Ya dig?

 

[Union With Christ]

again, the reason the Sabbath is the Sabbath is because it is the day God rested from His works in the Tomb. that's true whether you rest on Saturday or Sunday.

plus, one of the says Joshua marched Israel around Jericho was a Sabbath day.

You keep repeating that same tag line but it’s still not answering my question of whether or not Orthodox observe the 4th commandment and rest on the sabbath.

 

[Union With Christ]

I think the issue is that our phronema (or mindset, if you will) reads the OT in light of Christ. So, that means the Church interprets a lot of it "spiritually" whereas you might be reading the OT legalistically. We're speaking a different language from you, as well as many Protestants.

Holy Saturday was when God "rested" in His Tomb (and went down into Sheol/Hades and preached the Gospel to the prophets of old). Sunday is the day of Resurrection, so that's why we celebrate on Sunday. It's the "Eighth day of the New Creation." Ya dig?

You don’t think Protestants honor the resurrection?

My question is about sabbath observance.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You keep repeating that same tag line but it’s still not answering my question of whether or not Orthodox observe the 4th commandment and rest on the sabbath.

it's because you are approaching the Sabbath apart from Christ. we do observe it, just not like a pre-Incarnation Jew, but as Orthodox Christians. you had the answer in the very article from Ancient Faith.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

You don’t think Protestants honor the resurrection?

Is that what I said? Nope.

My question is about sabbath observance.

As Christians we don’t observe the sabbath in and of itself, but rather in light of Christ. You seem to have a difficult time grasping that.

Tell me, am I sinning by doing the Divine Liturgy (liturgy: “Work of the people”) on Saturday instead of Sunday?

 

[Union With Christ]

it's because you are approaching the Sabbath apart from Christ. we do observe it, just not like a pre-Incarnation Jew, but as Orthodox Christians. you had the answer in the very article from Ancient Faith.

No, I’m not approaching the sabbath apart from Christ so please stop saying that. I worship Christ on the sabbath but I also rest according to the commandment.

The Ancient Faith Ministries article isn’t consistent with the answers I am getting from other Orthodox including the priest I emailed and also you for that matter.

 

[Union With Christ]

Is that what I said? Nope.



As Christians we don’t observe the sabbath in and of itself, but rather in light of Christ. You seem to have a difficult time grasping that.

Tell me, am I sinning by doing the Divine Liturgy (liturgy: “Work of the people”) on Saturday instead of Sunday?

Why can’t you understand that I already stated many times that I worship Christ on the sabbath and do observe the sabbath in light of Christ?

Second, it is a good thing to go to Church on the sabbath so why would you ask me that question?

Lastly, you were suggesting that Protestants weren’t spiritual and don’t interpret the OT in light of Christ and his resurrection.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Why can’t you understand that I already stated many times that I worship Christ on the sabbath and do observe the sabbath in light of Christ?

I understand you do. Why can't you understand that we do, too?

Second, it is a good thing to go to Church on the sabbath so why would you ask me that question.

Because liturgy, by definition is "work," and that would violate the OT definition sabbath would it not? In other words, I would not be keeping the sabbath by going to liturgy on the sabbath.

Lastly, you were suggesting that Protestants weren’t spiritual and don’t interpret the OT in light of Christ and his resurrection.

You ought to read St. Justin Martyr's dialogue with Trypho the Jew to determine how the earliest Church read the scriptures (the OT since there was no NT canon at the time of St. Justin: 100 ~ 165 A.D.). Livres audio et plus | Votre premier livre est gratuit! | Audible.ca

It's interesting to note that Trypho's apologetic method for Judaism is still used to this day. The arguments haven't changed since the beginning.

 

[Union With Christ]

I understand you do. Why can't you understand that we do, too?

You say that you do but it seems like my question is being refused and no answer is being given.

So I will again ask the same question. Do Orthodox rest on the 7th day according to the 4th commandment and observe the sabbath?

 

[Union With Christ]

Because liturgy, by definition is "work," and that would violate the OT definition sabbath would it not? In other words, I would not be keeping the sabbath by going to liturgy on the sabbath.

Worship is not working. The sabbath was made to be a day of worship and communion with God as well as rest.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

You say that you do but it seems like my question is being refused and no answer is being given.

Probably because we don't identify as "Sabbath-keepers," rather identifying ourselves in Christ. It's not a big issue for us anymore than the OT requirement for circumcision is. You can take it or leave it, but if it causes you to stumble by not keeping the sabbath, then by all means keep the sabbath.

So I will again ask the same question. Do Orthodox rest on the 7th day according to the 4th commandment and observe the sabbath?

Some do. Some don't.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I think the issue here is that you want a black or white absolute answer on the Sabbath. It's obvious we don't have an absolute answer on it, rather we look back to the first council of Jerusalem where St. James determined that gentiles don't have to, but they can if they like. It's a non-issue in the Church. It's not required. You don't get anymore brownie points for keeping the sabbath than not.

Also, there were more than 10 commandments in the OT. Do you also keep ALL the commandments?

 

[Union With Christ]

Probably because we don't identify as "Sabbath-keepers," rather identifying ourselves in Christ. It's not a big issue for us anymore than the OT requirement for circumcision is. You can take it or leave it, but if it causes you to stumble by not keeping the sabbath, then by all means keep the sabbath.

Circumcision was part of the ceremonial law. The sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments written in stone. Jesus said that we must do and teach the commandments.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Worship is not working. The sabbath was made to be a day of worship and communion with God as well as rest.

The word liturgy, derived from the technical term in ancient Greek (Greek: λειτουργία), leitourgia, which literally means "work for the people" is a literal translation of the two words "litos ergos" or "public service".

 

[Justin-H.S.]

Circumcision was part of the ceremonial law. The sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments written in stone. Jesus said that we must do and teach the commandments.

Is it your aim to convince the rest of us to observe the sabbath along with you?

I just said you can if you want to. Will it cause you to stumble if I ate meat while you eat only vegetables?

 

[Union With Christ]

Is it your aim to convince the rest of us to observe the sabbath with you?

No, my aim here is to find out if I will be out of place in the Orthodox Church because I am a sabbath keeper.

From the argument that I am receiving here that may very well be the case.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

No, my aim here is to find out if I will be out of place in the Orthodox Church because I am a sabbath keeper.

From the argument that I am receiving here that may very well be the case.

If you rightly kept the sabbath, no one would care or notice unless you bring attention to yourself. That attention you draw on yourself would be your only reward.

I don't think anyone is arguing with you on this. We're all saying some form of "You don't have to, but you can."

Is it your argument that some of us are in the wrong for not keeping the sabbath because Abbot Tryphon wrote that we should a couple years ago?