S.N.A.P (food stamps) is a collossal failure.

[OldWiseGuy]

Capitalism always has room for elevators that lift a few people up the respective levels of the pyramids. Those floors, however, are still in the abyss of the pyramid. The ceiling is still impenetrable for 99.9% - there is just an illusion of progress.

For example, your $20,000 is worthless if interest rates are kept artificially low, or if the value of the dollar plummets. Fiat money is worthless except for the credit applied to it. That isn't necessarily a positive attribute to capitalism. It may be a testament of your personal financial discipline, but it isn't a merit to capitalism. There are mechanisms to normalize the slope of the pyramid - and there are mechanisms to account for perturbations in that pyramid system. A $20,000 surplus for one human in a pyramid scheme of over 300 million (and trillions in alleged valuation) is nothing.

An apartment building is not a symbol of capitalism. Cotton High is from slave economy. Capitalism is that empty.

I don't pay much attention to any of the things you cite (they're all 'downers'). Perhaps that's why I am financially successful.

 

[Kaon]

I don't pay much attention to any of the things you cite (they're all 'downers'). Perhaps that's why I am financially successful.

You are not financially successful out of ignorance, and if you ignore the "downers," then you miss the complete picture, and $20,000 just becomes symbolic, for example.

Financial success in a capitalist economy is about credit and facade; the money isn't worth the cotton it is printed on, it just represents a legal tender/exchange that acts more as a certificate than currency. It has been like this since Babylon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are assuming people are conscious of their bodies, that they can rest (in this purposefully ragged economy), and that they have the luxury to heal quickly.

I said "if"...

It is that complicated, since the foundation is about nutrition, and people are either ignorant or uneducated about the meticulous defense one must execute in order to properly eat for the purposes of healthy living. Ironically, if we followed the Word of God and the Leviticus diet, you could bypass a good amount of anxiety about what you put in your body.

Most Christians don't know what that diet is.

Just because you live a long time doesn't mean you are healthy

True. Many are living a long miserable life, under their doctor's care.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are not financially successful out of ignorance, and if you ignore the "downers," then you miss the complete picture, and $20,000 just becomes symbolic, for example.

Financial success in a capitalist economy is about credit and facade; the money isn't worth the cotton it is printed on, it just represents a legal tender/exchange that acts more as a certificate than currency. It has been like this since Babylon.

It's all we have at the moment. Even gold is valued in paper dollars. I traded dollars for ownership of real estate. What's wrong with that?

In the end money is just an accounting system. One either has credits or debits in their account.

 

[Kaon]

It's all we have at the moment. Even gold is valued in paper dollars. I traded dollars for ownership of real estate. What's wrong with that?

In the end money is just an accounting system. One either has credits or debits in their account.

Gold has intrinsic value; it's worth is inherent in its substance.

Fiat money and capitalist systems work on "credit" (cotton has very little value in and of itself).

The problem with a credit based system with no backing for the currency besides confidence is that the entire house of cards fails when the confidence and credit dimisnishes. The value of a currency decreases exponentially with respect to the dependency of a financial system on credit and confidence.

Unfortunately, you do not own your estate. It can be taken from you at any time. You are allowed to occupy the space because you have made several agreements (purchase/mortgage) that work to allow you to claim a residence. But, you don't own it; you are in a binding agreement - even if it is paid.

 

[Kaon]

It's all we have at the moment. Even gold is valued in paper dollars. I traded dollars for ownership of real estate. What's wrong with that?

In the end money is just an accounting system. One either has credits or debits in their account.

Nothing is wrong with what you are doing, necessarily, but it is best to call the system what it is - a beast system that exploits the bottom participants of the grand pyramid scheme called Capitalism. It's great if you are in the lower-middle, or middle of the pyramid, perhaps. But, that is a facade too.

Only the capstone of a pyramid is the "consistent best," every other level eventually degenerates into the "bottom" - which is why the middle "class" in America is dissolving.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Gold has intrinsic value; it's worth is inherent in its substance.

Fiat money and capitalist systems work on "credit" (cotton has very little value in and of itself).

The problem with a credit based system with no backing for the currency besides confidence is that the entire house of cards fails when the confidence and credit dimisnishes. The value of a currency decreases exponentially with respect to the dependency of a financial system on credit and confidence.

Unfortunately, you do not own your estate. It can be taken from you at any time. You are allowed to occupy the space because you have made several agreements (purchase/mortgage) that work to allow you to claim a residence. But, you don't own it; you are in a binding agreement - even if it is paid.

Actually I traded it back for money a few years ago.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nothing is wrong with what you are doing, necessarily, but it is best to call the system what it is - a beast system that exploits the bottom participants of the grand pyramid scheme called Capitalism. It's great if you are in the lower-middle, or middle of the pyramid, perhaps. But, that is a facade too.

Only the capstone of a pyramid is the "consistent best," every other level eventually degenerates into the "bottom" - which is why the middle "class" in America is dissolving.

It's also an escalator...always moving up. I started at the bottom tier and am now in the top 10 percent in several categories. Capitalism can work for everyone, but not all at once of course, and most must start at the bottom. If I can do it, others can as well (and I wasted a lot of time and money along the way).

 

[Kaon]

It's also an escalator...always moving up. I started at the bottom tier and am now in the top 10 percent in several categories. Capitalism can work for everyone, but not all at once of course, and most must start at the bottom. If I can do it, others can as well (and I wasted a lot of time and money along the way).

I respect your opinion; I disagree. I'll be more specific as to why.

Capitalism runs a nation like a company, with its citizens the employees.

Of course there is room for advancement in the company if you work 18hr days instead of 12hr, and produce something that is of use. But, the employees generally stay exactly where they are for years or decades.

Unfortunately, just like a business, there are specific limits and avenues of advancement for different types of employees. I am speaking about the 80% that are below "middle management"/less than $20,000,000 net worth.

People worth "less" are wealthier, because of their name (nepotism) and their connections (networking). You are living in a business disguised as a constitutional republic. Your money system is the company bottom line. Your body is the company resource. Everything the company offers is to keep you working there. Expatriation Leaving the company is highly discouraged - usually most of all by the citizens employees and managers.

Being born with a silver spoon in one's mouth is a sign that one is financially free, and independent of a system. People who work for food and shelter are dependent on the company system. The lie they tell the plebs is hard work is a sign of value, and it should reflect your financial security. It is pure nonsense; at the very least working intelligently is more important than hard work for the sake of work.

The whole head is sick!

 

[derpytia]

If food is spoiled or 'outdated' there is liability in giving it away. If someone fishes it out of the dumpster any harm (sickness) is their responsibility. Food programs like SNAP and WIC provide free food for the poor. We have wonderful food aid programs here. Sadly they are badly abused.

That is true. But there is also a lot of food that is not spoiled or outdated that also gets thrown out because it passed a "best by" date rather than an expiry date. The food is still good.

Doesn't say much about the non food items that get thrown away. Walmart for one constantly throws perfectly good clothes, toys, shoes, etc away in their trash compactor to avoid people taking it from the dumpsters. Also, a lot of other stores take a knife to perfectly good products before throwing them in the dumpster so people can't fish them out and use them for themselves or donate them. It's sad.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I respect your opinion; I disagree. I'll be more specific as to why.

Capitalism runs a nation like a company, with its citizens the employees.

Of course there is room for advancement in the company if you work 18hr days instead of 12hr, and produce something that is of use. But, the employees generally stay exactly where they are for years or decades.

Unfortunately, just like a business, there are specific limits and avenues of advancement for different types of employees. I am speaking about the 80% that are below "middle management"/less than $20,000,000 net worth.

People worth "less" are wealthier, because of their name (nepotism) and their connections (networking). You are living in a business disguised as a constitutional republic. Your money system is the company bottom line. Your body is the company resource. Everything the company offers is to keep you working there. Expatriation Leaving the company is highly discouraged - usually most of all by the citizens employees and managers.

Being born with a silver spoon in one's mouth is a sign that one is financially free, and independent of a system. People who work for food and shelter are dependent on the company system. The lie they tell the plebs is hard work is a sign of value, and it should reflect your financial security. It is pure nonsense; at the very least working intelligently is more important than hard work for the sake of work.

The whole head is sick!

But that's all most people want; a brainless job, work 8 hours, go home, open a beer, hit the couch and watch tv (Oh wait, that's what I do).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That is true. But there is also a lot of food that is not spoiled or outdated that also gets thrown out because it passed a "best by" date rather than an expiry date. The food is still good.

Doesn't say much about the non food items that get thrown away. Walmart for one constantly throws perfectly good clothes, toys, shoes, etc away in their trash compactor to avoid people taking it from the dumpsters. Also, a lot of other stores take a knife to perfectly good products before throwing them in the dumpster so people can't fish them out and use them for themselves or donate them. It's sad.

Yet you don't see people hungry or unclothed. Plenty of free food and cheap clothes available for the poor. My daughter, who is poor by choice, buys all her clothes at Goodwill or St. Vincent De Paul. She gets some great looking clothes for pennies. There are great deals on really good stuff on Craig's List. I replaced my old tv with one I found there for $20.

 

[Wisp]

Some problems with SNAP
1. SNAP is structured as a supplement. It's meant to cover the portion of your grocery budget that you cannot pay. However, it's often used (and issued) as though it were meant to cover 100% of your grocery bill each month. In many cases, that's just not enough.
2. People who qualify for SNAP often don't realise that they're also eligible for other food supplements, like food pantries. Issuers usually neglect to inform recipients about this benefit, as well as where to go and how to get it. Recipients are also not usually aware of other ways they can save money. For instance, in Michigan, if you purchase vegetables and fruits from a farmer's market, you get double your money. People go for years spending their SNAP for things they can get free or much cheaply, which includes most basic items (bread, milk) and vegetables.
3. Too many people are on SNAP. Most full and part-time workers in the retail, fast food and similar industries have SNAP because they are paid so little. This spreads the benefit too thin. These workers should be paid a sustainable, living wage by their employer so they don't need to utilise systems meant for the needy and disabled.
4. Just because someone has money to buy groceries doesn't mean they are capable of making wise choices. Some recipients have mental health issues, developmental problems, addictions and other problems which affect their ability to make good choices. They may also not have had any training in nutrition, cost comparison, reading labels, budgeting, etc. More oversight is necessary in some cases to ensure parents who receive SNAP are feeding their children healthy meals rather than wasting money on chips and candy. If people make expensive purchases early in the month, they may run out of money and go hungry later.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Some problems with SNAP
1. SNAP is structured as a supplement. It's meant to cover the portion of your grocery budget that you cannot pay. However, it's often used (and issued) as though it were meant to cover 100% of your grocery bill each month. In many cases, that's just not enough.
2. People who qualify for SNAP often don't realise that they're also eligible for other food supplements, like food pantries. Issuers usually neglect to inform recipients about this benefit, as well as where to go and how to get it. Recipients are also not usually aware of other ways they can save money. For instance, in Michigan, if you purchase vegetables and fruits from a farmer's market, you get double your money. People go for years spending their SNAP for things they can get free or much cheaply, which includes most basic items (bread, milk) and vegetables.
3. Too many people are on SNAP. Most full and part-time workers in the retail, fast food and similar industries have SNAP because they are paid so little. This spreads the benefit too thin. These workers should be paid a sustainable, living wage by their employer so they don't need to utilise systems meant for the needy and disabled.
4. Just because someone has money to buy groceries doesn't mean they are capable of making wise choices. Some recipients have mental health issues, developmental problems, addictions and other problems which affect their ability to make good choices. They may also not have had any training in nutrition, cost comparison, reading labels, budgeting, etc. More oversight is necessary in some cases to ensure parents who receive SNAP are feeding their children healthy meals rather than wasting money on chips and candy. If people make expensive purchases early in the month, they may run out of money and go hungry later.

The problems aren't with the SNAP program, but with the ignorance (willful or unwitting) of the people on the program. SNAP benefits can easily provide 100 percent of individual or family nutritional needs. Problems of the poor aren't undernourishment but overnourishment, which is evident by the preponderance of overweight and obesity among the poor. This also contribute greatly to their medical problems.