Rusmeister...leaving?

[MKJ]

I'd miss your posts if you left.

Something to think about: What would you expect it to "look like" if people were engaging/understanding you? What does it look like when you engage/understand others?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm with MKJ. I rarely hope a poster hits the bricks, even the ones with whom I disagree.

I think that posts that say "nobody is responding to me!? You will either respond to me or it shows you are all lacking in intellect!" are not healthy. i also don't like posts that say, "I'm obviously the most qualified person here and y'all aren't even close to my level but go ahead and post anyway! But if you don't post what I want to hear, you obviously didn't get it.." or "you obviously didn't read the link or you wouldn't say x, you'd say y!" are not good.

I see that a lot. It shows an expected response, a need to be agreed with and confirmed. I don't know if that is my own expectation. i post and usually expect to get argued with and hopefully learn something. If someone disagrees with me, it might give me new insights.

I've seen this trend where the poster says arrogant assumptions and accuses the other poster of foolishly not fully reading it, getting it, or meditating on it properly.

The education thread was the toughest for me. i got a lot of the "hey, I was once where you are now, ignorant, naive, and not ready for primetime. It's obvious you didn't read the articles and that you don't know half as much about education as I did. You're drinking the Kool Aid" stuff. It rubbed me the wrong way a lot.

I found huge holes in the logic.

But that being said, working things out, working an idea through, being respectful and changing one's posting style or keeping an open mind, maybe trying to befriend an "opponent" poster instead of seeing them as a threat, are all better than bolting.

Personally, I'm not sure I would agree with the idea of creating a thread about leaving anyway? Why not mull it over, talk to people in IM's, pray about it, but why tell everyone and air this out this way?

 

[Joshua G.]

Hey Rus,

My post, while I think it spoke truth and truth that you are mature enough to handle (I wouldn't have been so blunt if I thought it would wound you with your tail between your legs) still lacked the charity and respect that I should give any brother in Christ should they NEED it or not.. they deserve it.

I hope you don't go. I got a kindle and the first book I uploaded was Orthodoxy because of you (not for you) and I should say that apart from Beginning to pray by Metropolitan ANthony, it is one of the most mind-flipping books I have read in recent memory. It changes how I see the world and society. By the way, I am also reading The Abolition of Man, no coincidence.

God bless. stay or pm me your contact info (I am not saying that or any of this to patronize you).

Josh

 

[Damaris]

Rus, I think Joshua's post said a lot of what I thought needed to be said here. Nobody wants you to leave, but I think you'll have an easier time relating to other people if you come down off your high horse.

It's not logical to immediately discount the thoughts and feelings of those you regard as less experienced. And I don't have to read Chesterton in the shower to know he was wrong about a few things.

There's a reason people who rely on their creativity to make a living have proofreaders check their work: having your nose to the grindstone can make a person lose perspective, and a pair of fresh eyes can find errors that the creator can't pick out on their own because he or she is too close to the work. Sometimes it's just a few typos; sometimes it's epic logic fails. You know how it goes.

Well, I think the same principle applies in other areas, where we get so caught up in one perspective (such as Chesterton's, or just our own delusions) that we start imagining that it's stone-carved eternal truth and everyone else is nuts. Well, it's very rare that everyone else is actually nuts. More likely, we've just lost perspective for a little bit and need to consider what others are saying.

With regard to not having enough access to your priest, I'd suggest making an appointment with him and talking about this. He might be busy himself, but maybe he can put you in touch with another priest who can help. Maybe an American priest would be able to keep in touch with you long distance or something like that.

 

[MariaRegina]

Rus, I am a senior citizen too.

In my family, there is a disconnect because I am the only Orthodox Christian among my siblings who think that the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church minus the Pope. They are all very anti-Catholic, and so also very anti-Orthodox.

In my son's family, there is also a disconnect as they think that the idea behind organic foods is a conspiracy to get people to boycott Monsanto, whom they view as a great company who is trying to feed the world. So, if I purchase any organic foods, they are very reluctant to eat that. When I tell them that Monsanto has a controlling interest in Whole Foods Market, they told me that WFM is part of the conspiracy to rob people by overcharging them.

Then they accuse me of believing in conspiracy theories because I eat organic foods. All I can do is shake my head and go home.

It is the perennial old vs. young battle.

However, the internet can be the great equalizer if people do not know your age or marital status.

 

[MariaRegina]

Please do not go, Rus.

I enjoy your very enlightening posts and your educational background as an ESL teacher in Russia.

I also miss Mitch who serves as an ESL instructor in Japan. Anyone know how he is doing?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Eating organic, I like you already!

Rus, I am a senior citizen too.

In my family, there is a disconnect because I am the only Orthodox Christian among my siblings who think that the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church minus the Pope. They are all very anti-Catholic, and so also very anti-Orthodox.

In my son's family, there is also a disconnect as they think that the idea behind organic foods is a conspiracy to get people to boycott Monsanto, whom they view as a great company who is trying to feed the world. So, if I purchase any organic foods, they are very reluctant to eat that. When I tell them that Monsanto has a controlling interest in Whole Foods Market, they told me that WFM is part of the conspiracy to rob people by overcharging them.

Then they accuse me of believing in conspiracy theories because I eat organic foods. All I can do is shake my head and go home.

It is the perennial old vs. young battle.

However, the internet can be the great equalizer if people do not know your age or marital status.

 

[ClementofRome]

Rus,
I turned 50 this past May....and i can completely relate to you in this matter. However, I want to point out one difference between you and I...you have the energy and mental capacity to do the job right, and I gave up on that a couple of years ago. I agree with 99% of everything you post, but lack the energy to enter the fray and the time necessary to "fray" properly in defense of your erudition. As an educator (Lord have mercy on me), I so agree with the "framing the argument in a relevant context" problem. I teach mostly freshmen and sophomores in college (18-21 year old students) and my subject matter is religion/philosophy.....pray for me!

God bless,
Uncle Clem

 

[Knee V]

Rus, I am a senior citizen too.

In my family, there is a disconnect because I am the only Orthodox Christian among my siblings who think that the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church minus the Pope. They are all very anti-Catholic, and so also very anti-Orthodox.

In my son's family, there is also a disconnect as they think that the idea behind organic foods is a conspiracy to get people to boycott Monsanto, whom they view as a great company who is trying to feed the world. So, if I purchase any organic foods, they are very reluctant to eat that. When I tell them that Monsanto has a controlling interest in Whole Foods Market, they told me that WFM is part of the conspiracy to rob people by overcharging them.

Then they accuse me of believing in conspiracy theories because I eat organic foods. All I can do is shake my head and go home.

It is the perennial old vs. young battle.

However, the internet can be the great equalizer if people do not know your age or marital status.

Why do you believe that the U.S. government imploded the World Trade Center and blamed it on invented terrorists?

(That's a joke, in case that fact is not obvious)

Rus, I've enjoyed your thoughts on education.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, I agree with what I have been reading. I like your posts Rus, and it'd be a bummer if they did not grace TAW. prayers for you

 

[Joshua G.]

Can i just say for the record that I am reading Orthodoxy by Chesterton and I can't find anything I could say "He is wrong on this". I can find a lot of things where i have said "huh? Really? That sounds like total bs. I mean, what about.. er what about this er, i mean... hmmmm... I will have to mull that over"... and I mull... and I have to say I change and I begin to realize that although some of his statements may SEEM to ne to be a bit overstated (nto that that means they ARE overstated, I am only talking abot by current malleable perception), I can't really argue with much of what he says so far.

I'm only in chapter 5 so I still have about half the book to go. lol

Anyway, Rus, if memory serves a rough count lands you with at least three people who have admitted that they would have never checked out Chesterton had it not been for you. So there ya go. That is something.

Josh

 

[Lirenel]

Anyway, Rus, if memory serves a rough count lands you with at least three people who have admitted that they would have never checked out Chesterton had it not been for you. So there ya go. That is something.

And I have to say that I don't know how much I would have looked into Orthodoxy itself if I hadn't read Rus's post on the C.S. Lewis forum before it closed down. That's something to remember Rus: I didn't interact a lot with you on that forum, but that doesn't mean I didn't take into consideration what you said. Same with Chesterton and even education.

But I will say, with all love, that recently I've sort of noticed you becoming a little more combative about your education views. While it's certainly a topic that needs to be addressed, perhaps you might do better to lay low on it for awhile, and simply point to previous things you've said should it come up in conversation. I understand you're passionate about the issue, but often times people will be more inclined to learn more about the subject if it is simply mentioned in passing, with perhaps links to more information that we may read about at leisure. Multiple threads tend to wear people out, at least in my case.

Again, that's said in all love and sincere appreciation for your influence in pointing me towards Orthodoxy.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

Count me in the "switched-on-to-Chesterton-thru-rusmeister" fanclub. Btw, I'm 90% lurker, and 10% poster. This means that I'm often one of those who reads your posts without replying. And, yes, I do agree with most of what you write.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

PS. I'm no spring-chicken myself.

 

[gracefullamb]

I hope you stick around as well. I like your posts and find them informative. You have definitely made me think about some things, especially about education. What ever you decide may God bless you.

 

[Protoevangel]

Can i just say for the record that I am reading Orthodoxy by Chesterton and I can't find anything I could say "He is wrong on this". I can find a lot of things where i have said "huh? Really? That sounds like total bs. I mean, what about.. er what about this er, i mean... hmmmm... I will have to mull that over"... and I mull... and I have to say I change and I begin to realize that although some of his statements may SEEM to ne to be a bit overstated (nto that that means they ARE overstated, I am only talking abot by current malleable perception), I can't really argue with much of what he says so far.

I'm only in chapter 5 so I still have about half the book to go. lol

Anyway, Rus, if memory serves a rough count lands you with at least three people who have admitted that they would have never checked out Chesterton had it not been for you. So there ya go. That is something.

Josh

I've read a few of his books, and have several more waiting to be read. I've also read many articles, parts of books, and debates of his, as well. I'm still where you are. Not much of what I've read, can I really fully disagree with... But if I did disagree with him, I could see exactly where I disagreed, and on what grounds, because he lays his thought process out so well. Never does he use sophistry, or shroud his logic... It's all laid out for anyone to challange, if they care to.

I first read Chesterton before I was Orthodox. I'm not sure if Rus directly contributed to my initial interest or not... But I do know that Rus's enthusiasm for Chesterton has encouraged me to reade more of his books.

 

[MariaRegina]

What books of his have you read?

I've read a few of his books, and have several more waiting to be read. I've also read many articles, parts of books, and debates of his, as well. I'm still where you are. Not much of what I've read, can I really fully disagree with... But if I did disagree with him, I could see exactly where I disagreed, and on what grounds, because he lays his thought process out so well. Never does he use sophistry, or shroud his logic... It's all laid out for anyone to challange, if they care to.

I first read Chesterton before I was Orthodox. I'm not sure if Rus directly contributed to my initial interest or not... But I do know that Rus's enthusiasm for Chesterton has encouraged me to reade more of his books.

 

[Protoevangel]

What books of his have you read?

Let's see, I remember reading Heretics, Orthodoxy, and one that i printed out from Gutenburg Press... I thought it was Tremendous Trifles, but looking through it, I don't remember several of the chapter titles... Maybe I only read parts of it. Also, one of his Father Brown detective stories.

I've read the articles Rus linked from here, and I've ran across a few while researching other subjects. I don't remember most of the titles. Oh, some of the lectures and videos from chesterton.org as well. But it's all been over a number of years. I'm far, far from an expert. I do want to read the books on distributism that I have. I should check to see if they are on Librivox, and I'll listen to it on my mp3 player!

Sorry, the long commute to and from work has me wiped out. I'm not usually this lazy.

 

[rusmeister]

First of all I want to say thank you for your comments - the good and the bad.
I am both surprised and humbled. For the last several months, I've had a growing sense of experiencing only the negative. So the expressions of the positive have floored me.

Still, the negative is noted.
To Damaris - on high horses - I think people of other faiths think us to be on a high horse if they hear us sing "We have found the true faith..." (and are no longer open to syncretism or finding truth in other faiths). I guess the question is, can a person think himself really right and not be arrogant in doing so? I don't think I'm anything special - the things I learned I learned by the circumstances of life and God's providence. The way I see it, I am just a jerk, but even a jerk can really know something, be sure of it, and be right where other, better people are wrong. My failing is undoubtedly, to my mind, in communicating the part that I am just a jerk. Also, it has been said that men speak to the topic, and women speak to each other. There may be some ways in which my words may be more likely to bounce off a woman's ears because of that. Just an idea, but I think it not unreasonable or unlikely.
If our perspective is that of the faith being true, of the Church having the authority to teach us and starting from an acknowledgement of the Fall, then it is certainly a perspective we don't want to lose. But do I think others have truth? Certainly. Do I think them all nuts? Not at all. Do I think that a great many of them might have been deceived by the world about certain things? I certainly do, and we as Orthodox Christians certainly do about a great many things.
So what is true and right in your words as they relate to me? Well, I think a lack of care in my words - a failure of charity, in spite of my attempts to speak with charity. What I do is obviously not good enough if you get the impression that I think everybody is nuts.

Josh - your thoughts are a separate post. (consider that a complement! )

Fotina's story had a good point we should always keep uppermost.

To MKJ - your posts in response to mine look a lot like engagement.
When I engage others - either I agree with them, and say little, or disagree and say a lot. And yes, I do think about the implications of that.

Maria - my mom lives in San Diego, and I think she would REALLY enjoy talking with you.

PE - I'd be curious as to what you do disagree with - I disagree with almost nothing, except the Catholic Church, of course, and on his faith in accomplishing things through political action in this world (a common Catholic malaise).

To Lirinel: I'm glad to have been of help at some point.
Being combative can be good or bad. You understand it negatively, and sometimes it is. I see an essential positive side, without which debate would be impossible. The best debates are when people who disagree really are trying to get at the truth.

I think RKO touched on something big. Probably the very best example of this would be a person who, having read some GKC, thinks him to be an anti-semite. And there are such people. And they are wrong. But they HAVE read something, which, as far as they understand it, as far as it appears to them, is (as they understand it) anti-semite. But the person who reads further and looks harder finds clarity - and a clue to that is when you discover how much the Zionists considered him to be an ally, because he really was against ill-treatment of Jews, and really was for them having a homeland of their own - and that clarifies the earlier statements into treating Jews, not as foreign scum to be trashed, but as foreign dignitaries to be honored. Not that I want to hash that all out here, just to say that a quick surface reading can give false impressions, and it turns out that it is our understandings which are mistaken. I have never in all my life, not by any writer been forced to think the way Chesterton forces me to think. And when I do think I find depth, and insight. It's one reason why a couple of books and a few essays are not nearly enough.

But in case anyone has gotten me wrong on this - Chesterton is someone I have enormous admiration for. He is axios. But he is not the Church. It just so happens that what he says on the whole is compatible with and supports Orthodox Church doctrine. It has the tremendous advantage over all Orthodox writers I know of of making sense of how the modern world came to where it is today. We already knew why - sin and the Fall. But how - that is something GKC is a master of making clear. But the Church is first in my mind - it is right where all of us - even GKC - are wrong.
But what's the use of talking about where GKC was wrong if we don't consider where he was right?

Anyway, I want to say thanks again to all of you for the outpouring of support and constructive criticism!
Will I stay? Probably. I have nowhere in particular to go. TAW is just a click or two away. But I probably will cut back somewhat in posting. Like I said, in most things, I don't have too much to say that others can't say better. And in the things I do have something to say, I need to work on saying it better - so as to not be misunderstood. I'll try to avoid arguing with folk who don't understand me. But I'll probably give in to the temptation to argue or discuss with those who show they really do understand.

To the few Russians out there:
Счастье 9-Б (когда тебя понимаю&#1090 (х/ф "Доживём до понедельника")

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Please don't leave rus, I appreciate your posts here And besides, you don't want us to start a thread called "bring back rus" do you?