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Roy Moore challenger Doug Jones, has ties to KKK

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by angeltrue, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't know this, thanks.

    I guess I just look at the people as individuals rather than a party vote.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  2. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt Supporter

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    I am still very suspicious about that "slight margin".
     
  3. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    So at the end of the day, punishing a rape victim by forcing her to carry to term, rather than terminate the pregnancy early, is the proper course of action. That's an awful lot to do to a child on the basis of a belief that even a small cluster of undifferentiated cells is as much of a human person as a developed fetus or post-born infant.

    Republicans have been trying, in their desire to repeal the ACA and in their attempt to de-fund PP. The Trump administration has made it easier for employers to deny their employees access to birth control on the basis of religious or moral conviction--in other words, if an employer is opposed to birth control on religious or moral grounds, they will not be obligated to as part of the medical insurance offered at the company cover birth control.

    Yes, there are people blocking the doors here.

    I've heard too many "welfare queen" and "parasite" comments coming from conservatives to know this is false.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  4. JackRT

    JackRT "Karma" can bite you in the butt Supporter

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    Actions like defunding Planned Parenthood and medical NGOs operating in third world nations has an extremely negative unintended impact. It reduces access to prenatal and post natal care, to sex education, to contraceptive information but most importantly it creates the sort of desperation that leads to dangerous unmedical abortions. There are proven ways of dramatically reducing the abortion rate if you are serious about it. Just remember that the most powerful abortifacient in this world is poverty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    So it's your position we are not biologically human at conception or just a lesser form of human being? What arbitrary non biological point in gestation do we become humans?

    The alternative is yes you do believe we have moral worth at conception but less than more developed human beings. A sub human category?

    See the problem. Letting the 13 year old have an abortion makes two victims. At least from a Biblical and historic Christian position.


    Show me someone blocked from going to a pharmacy to buy their own contraceptives? Or poor women who are denied such at women's clinics or free clinics. PP is not the only provider of free contraceptives.

    What's false is your generalization bordering bigoted comment.

    Shame on those who do.

    My church runs a pregnancy crisis center and is in partnership with other churches running a women's shelter and education center. We know well women need more than diapers and formula to raise a child.
     
  6. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    All the medical NGOs are prohibited by the Mexico City accord is abortion services.

    And as mentioned in the linked post below, PP is not the only act in town. It's the only act getting federal funding for what state and county women's clinics already provide.

    Family Planning and Birth Control - Parenthelp123

    Roy Moore challenger Doug Jones, has ties to KKK
     
  7. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Don't you remember the "hanging chads"? Bush won Florida by 537 votes.
     
  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It looks like the state of Washington is doing a good job.
     
  9. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    Texas started a similar program in 2015.
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    So much to remember. As in two election workers having voting machines and ballots in their car trunks.

    And Bush never being behind in the official count and illegal recount.
     
  11. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    What was illegal about the recount?
     
  12. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    It started before the Sec State (FL) confirmed the official results. By the state law then, a contest to the election results can only happen after Sec State confirmation. You can't contest unconfirmed results.

    Yet counties decided to conduct their own recounts and standards varied from county to county and in some cases precincts. Various groups sued for a recount of a vote yet to be official. The FL SCOTUS legislated from the bench in effect negating FL voting laws. That's why the case went to USSCOTUS.

    Team Gore was hunting for enough votes by extra legal means to try and establish enough doubt.

    He did not want to wait for the certified confirmed results because he knew that alone would be legal precedence enough and a mountain too high to overcome.
     
  13. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    The recount was mandated by Florida Election Code so it couldn't have been illegal. Regardless, Bush won Florida legitimately by a small margin.
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Biologically human? Yes, but then if you were to scrape some tissue from a person, that tissue sample would be biologically human as well. But we're dealing with concepts that go a bit further than simple genetic information; the question is a matter of human person-hood.

    Let's be clear about something, the Bible doesn't say anything on this topic. If it did, then the question of human ensoulment would never have been a question in the history of the Church--but it was. The Bible doesn't answer this question. And Christian theologians and philosophers sought answers to the question, largely by looking to the philosophical tradition of the Greeks.

    Yes, the historic Christian position is that abortion is wrong. No question, not challenging that. But the question of when is there a human person is important. And I think there should be something a bit more substantial than mere opinion--no matter how dogmatic one is about said opinion--to hold together an argument in which one is forcing a child to have a child because she was raped. That there is no difference between a fertilized egg and a human fetus.

    If men can have their viagra covered by insurance, should woman have their birth control covered as well?

    How is pointing out that many conservatives have used terms like "welfare queen" and "parasite" bigoted? Shouldn't the charge of bigotry be toward those trying to undermine social safety net programs that help the disenfranchised?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    Personhood is a made up post modern relativist term.

    If you scrape off your own skin, the DNA would show you.

    I'm a bit surprised I have to explain 10th grade embryology to such an intelligent poster as you. We are distinct human beings at conception. Scientific fact. If you want to promote one of hundreds of relativistic and arbitrary philosophical theories of "personhood", feel free to do so but it will be your opinion against the scientific facts.

    Again, if you want to group humans into relative "worth" factors, then be comfortable with those who did so throughout history. Not very good people.

    Good. Yet there is a "but" looming....

    There is no opinion in what I present. Only scientific fact. We become a new distinct human being at conception. Not opinion fact. Your opinion is a human at that stage of life is morally inferior to the pregnant woman. And you chose a vignette of a 13 year old who was raped which amounts to less than 1% of all abortions performed.

    Again a horrible situation, but what did the developing human being in the womb do to get a death sentence?

    And again, one would have to view the developing human being as morally inferior to the pregnant woman and ignore the settled science.

    One kills and the other does not.

    FYI the Hobby Lobby case involved birth control as defined as abortifacients.

    Yes, Some Contraceptives Are Abortifacients
     
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Abide Boldly! Supporter

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    TaNaKh surely does address when human life begins.

    Check out any genealogy in Genesis and you will see a life is determined by the fathering "begat." A dad has one function in this process.

    Not to mention the verses showing the understanding we are woven in the womb by God.

    If you really want me to delve into this I'll ping you over at the debate abortion forum.

    Plus @Vicomte13 has some detailed posts on conception and Genesis.
     
  17. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't think there's any question that fathers sire children, and the meaning of יָלַד (here, here, here) being what it is. Neither do I question the Psalmist who writes, "You formed my inward parts, you wove me together in my mother's womb". Though neither of those things exactly answer the question of ensoulment.

    My point is somewhat singular here: Abortion is bad, and when it happens it is tragic. But I don't think the answer is fiat anti-abortionism: no abortion, ever, for any reason and all women who get them and all doctors who perform them are murderers of the worst sort. The answer is to address the underlying causes of abortion. And that sometimes, there are circumstances, where terminating a pregnancy might be necessary to save a life--that doesn't mean the terminating of the pregnancy is something to be celebrated, but it does mean sometimes it's necessary--and that it is preferable to live in a society where that is legal and able to be done then not.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  18. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    9 million kids get health insurance under CHIP. Congress just let it expire.

    Congress just allowed the Children’s Health Insurance Program, which provided low-cost health insurance to 9 million children, to expire.

    If action is not taken soon to restore the funding, the effects will become obvious in schools across the country, with many of the children in the program unable to see a doctor for routine checkups, immunizations, visits when sick and other services.

    The program, created under a 1997 law passed with bipartisan support during the administration of President Bill Clinton, provided coverage for children in families with low and moderate incomes as well as to pregnant women. It was instrumental in lowering the percentage of children who were uninsured from nearly 14 percent when it started to 4.5 percent in 2015. It was last reauthorized in 2015 and was due to be renewed by Sept. 30, 2017.

    Amid unsuccessful efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, the Republican-led Congress allowed the CHIP deadline to pass without action.

    9 million kids get health insurance under CHIP. Congress just let it expire.

    [​IMG]

    Pro-Life advocates are only too willing to lecture the rest of us about the sanctity of human life, only to respond with a "deafening silence" when the Republican dominated House and Senate, which they helped vote into office, allowed funding for the "Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)" to expire.

    This program provided low-cost health insurance to 9 million of America's most vulnerable children, allowing for checkups, immunizations, visits when sick and other services which their parents might not otherwise been able to afford.

    Given that these 9 million children are the result of mothers who decided to continue with full-term pregnancies instead of choosing to abort - Pro-life supporters are demonstrated a "strange" way of rewarding those who have followed their advice!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  19. Yonny Costopoulis

    Yonny Costopoulis Well-Known Member

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    The party of family value has chose leader who is thrice divorced and brags about sexually assaulting women by grabbing their vaginas.

    The party of the Moral Majority values has chosen a leader who lies constantly and continuously and makes most disgusting attacks to people he is angry with.

    The party of fiscal responsibility is demanding tax laws that will increase deficit 1.5-2 trillion USD.

    The part of personal responsibility has chosen a leader who never accepts responsibility for his actions.

    Why would we be surprised that they do not follow their statements about the sanctity of life as well? Based on past conduct would be very much more surprising if they voted to help save thousands of children's lives.
     
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