chevyontheriver

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Forgive me, but who is Tucho?
'Tucho' is a nickname for cardinal Fernandez. I'm not sure if he approves of it so I try not to use it. I have seen it used derisively and I would not recommend using it.
 
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'Tucho' is a nickname for cardinal Fernandez. I'm not sure if he approves of it so I try not to use it. I have seen it used derisively and I would not recommend using it.

Thank you for the heads up! I certainly won’t be using it in that case.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I am not advocating obeying Fiducia Supplicans, rather obey God. Avoid schism, remain in n the Church, repent, fast and pray.
I am trying. People who tell me I must assent to Fiducia Supplicans are leaving a very sour taste in my mouth. They are asking me to drink poison to remain Catholic.And they are telling me it's fine food, the best.
We know from the teachings of Christ that sex for pleasure is a sin and the marital act has a proper place.
Sex for pleasure is not a sin. What is a sin is sex for pleasure which deliberately excludes the procreative and unitive nature of each sexual act. We don't have to be thinking of creating a baby while begrudgingly having sex. But deliberately preventing a baby through some form of contraception is immoral. So too any form of deliberately sterilized sex including that between two men or two women. Sex for pleasure is fine unless some value of sex is intentionally denied. God created it to be pleasurable.
Francis is reacting to traditionalists becoming tribal and thinking that is righteousness.
Something I think he imagines more than actually sees.
When we see our brothers in sin, our hearts should break, just as our Lord’s does when he sees us and will do anything, even death on a cross, to call us back to the truth.
FS seems to have little care for rescuing sinners, but of blessing sin. FS is a pastoral flop in that regard.
Too many times we become as the proud Pharisee and list our great Christian accomplishments and neglect the man who comes into Church and just wants to say Lord have mercy on me a sinner.
Who is doing that?
Instead of wasting time condemning homosexuals, we need to shine forth the righteousness of Chastity. Fornication and lust are like drugs dragging their practitioners from the path of life and enslaving them to sin. Don’t get lost in the argument of gay vs straight. It is rather pure, chaste vs foul, adulterated.
Who is condemning homosexuals? Those who say of a couple that we can bless your sin or those who want to bless courageous individuals who are trying their best for a wholesome life? Those are the ones FS should have been written for. Not for the friends of James Martin who are so pleased they can ape the nuptual blessing for all sorts of illicit and invalid and immoral unions.
A gay man is incredibly lonely, despite his protests to the contrary. A gay man is looking to be loved but will never find it, as lust looks at the object and wishes pleasure from it, while marriage is a sacrifice to God for the good of the family it produces

More often than not, but not always because Satan is slick and not one dimensional, it is a demon of fear rather than a demon of lust that torments the homosexual. Fear of loneliness, fear of rejection, fear of being unloved. We play into that fear and assist the demon when we harp on condemning the homosexuality rather than finding the real problem, and the word of God is blasphemed among the gentiles because of us.

I know it is not an easy solution and we need to study spiritual warfare, rather than using slogans and one liners. The battle is more complex than we think and we cannot do it alone. That is why we have the Church, the communion of saints.
Satan wants us fighting alone, because he can the more easily manipulate us. He is breaking up the Church to render it ineffective and stale

His strategy began as soon as Peter and the apostles began speaking on Pentecost, by calling them drunks. It became more manifest in the great schism and later in the reformation. The lonelier we are the more vulnerable we are. Same with homosexuals. Satan has them trapped in loneliness
FS has failed these people so far. What it has said is that you can just give up the struggle for chastity and partner up and get blessed. Don't be a simp and believe all those out of date teachings of the Catholic Church. We recognize you as you are, with your inclinations and desires which we now call good and blessable. The Catholic Church, well, some parts of it, were allies of those trying to live courageous chaste lives. We have switched now to be allies of those who, like the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, say 'go and sin some more'.

You are right in saying we need study spiritual warfare. We have lost more in battle in the last month than I could have previously imagined. Satan is breaking up the Church, trying hard anyway. I still pray for the reinforcements to arrive in time.
 
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chevyontheriver

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A huge number of Catholics are distressed by this, and there is a group of traditional Catholics including Gerhard Cardinal Muller, Raymond Cardinal Burke, HG Athanasius Schneider, Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, and Dr. Peeter Kwasniewsky who are working on strategies to correct this error and I believe Dr. Kwasniewsky is even investigating the possibility of deposing Pope Francis, or having him censured.
There is no real mechanism to depose a pope. It just does not exist because of a failure at Vatican I to contemplate that anything this bad could happen. I suspect the next council will be correcting that oversight. Vatican I was trying to protect the papacy from Italian political interference. What we got was a pope who could go out of control unless the Lord acts to stop him.

This pope has already been fraternally corrected (AKA censured) but that was like pouring water on the back of a duck. He is self-isolating so he isn't connecting with his critics for the most part. He nay not even know how much damage he has caused.

The solution is biological. He is old and will not last much longer. With the frightful mess he has created the cardinals likely will need a corrective papacy to follow him. Maybe not a great pope but one who can at least steer towards the middle for a few years and appoint some cardinals who hopefully have a living faith.

Fiducia Supplicans has caused far more damage that Traditiones Custodes, bad as that was. And this isn't even infallible stuff. Recovery will take a long long time.
 
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I am trying. People who tell me I must assent to Fiducia Supplicans are leaving a very sour taste in my mouth. They are asking me to drink poison to remain Catholic.And they are telling me it's fine food, the best.

Sex for pleasure is not a sin. What is a sin is sex for pleasure which deliberately excludes the procreative and unitive nature of each sexual act. We don't have to be thinking of creating a baby while begrudgingly having sex. But deliberately preventing a baby through some form of contraception is immoral. So too any form of deliberately sterilized sex including that between two men or two women. Sex for pleasure is fine unless some value of sex is intentionally denied. God created it to be pleasurable.

Something I think he imagines more than actually sees.

FS seems to have little care for rescuing sinners, but of blessing sin. FS is a pastoral flop in that regard.

Who is doing that?

Who is condemning homosexuals? Those who say of a couple that we can bless your sin or those who want to bless courageous individuals who are trying their best for a wholesome life? Those are the ones FS should have been written for. Not for the friends of James Martin who are so pleased they can ape the nuptual blessing for all sorts of illicit and invalid and immoral unions.

FS has failed these people so far. What it has said is that you can just give up the struggle for chastity and partner up and get blessed. Don't be a simp and believe all those out of date teachings of the Catholic Church. We recognize you as you are, with your inclinations and desires which we now call good and blessable. The Catholic Church, well, some parts of it, were allies of those trying to live courageous chaste lives. We have switched now to be allies of those who, like the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, say 'go and sin some more'.

You are right in saying we need study spiritual warfare. We have lost more in battle in the last month than I could have previously imagined. Satan is breaking up the Church, trying hard anyway. I still pray for the reinforcements to arrive in time.
We need to study the Catechism. Did you know that the Church has no authority to dispense the natural law?

I am not asking anyone to ascent to Fiducia Suplicans. I am am advocating for remaining in the Church. Pray fast and contemplate why the Holy Spirit is allowing this to happen at this time

The Pope is infallible in faith and morals, but he is not impeccable in opinion. Infallibility serves as the final judge to preserve the faith. He has no authority to dispense the natural law, nor break the faith down and create a new one.

We as laity have to resist the temptation to declare him a heretic and take matters into our own hands. What does FS actually say and what does it actually do? That is what we contemplate

We need to study the natural law and show ourselves approved. It takes an intense love of God to remain steadfast in patience

Like the words of our first Pope to Our Lord. Where else shall we go? You have to words of eternal life. We are in the most dangerous time in the Church. The temptation is there to leave. Many have tried before, and they thought they had very good righteous and scriptural reasons for doing so. What happened to them? Did they preserve the faith and thrive out from under a corrupt hierarchy? Any examination of history shows that they did not.

Only another Pope can call a Pope a heretic. We have the power to do that if we wish, but we do not have the authority. When we act without authority, we act outside the grace of God and leave ourselves susceptible to spiritual deception.

Look what happened to Peter, our first Pope. He denied Our Lord three times and thereby abdicated his ecclesial authority. He wept bitterly and repented, but could he be restored?
He could not take the authority for himself, the other apostles could not give it to him either. Only Our Lord Himself could restore Peter as Pope, which He did after the resurrection.
Simon, son of Jonah lovest thou me? Our Lord called him by his old name three times to equal his denials. Only at the end did Jesus say feed my sheep.

Francis is an old man and will not be Pope forever
Don’t worry, he may be infallible but is prevented from I overstepping his authority. Consider the Catechism:

1956 The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties:



For there is a true law: right reason. It is in conformity with nature, is diffused among all men, and is immutable and eternal; its orders summon to duty; its prohibitions turn away from offense .... To replace it with a contrary law is a sacrilege; failure to apply even one of its provisions is forbidden; no one can abrogate it entirely. 9


1957 Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures, the natural law remains as a rule that binds men among themselves and imposes on them, beyond the inevitable differences, common principles.



1958 The natural law is immutable and permanent throughout the variations of history; 10 it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies:



Theft is surely punished by your law, O Lord, and by the law that is written in the human heart, the law that iniquity itself does not efface. 11

9 Cicero, Rep. III, 22, 33.

10 Cf. GS 10.

11 St. Augustine, Conf. 2, 4, 9: PL 32, 678
 
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The Liturgist

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We need to study the Catechism. Did you know that the Church has no authority to dispense the natural law?

I am not asking anyone to ascent to Fiducia Suplicans. I am am advocating for remaining in the Church. Pray fast and contemplate why the Holy Spirit is allowing this to happen at this time

The Pope is infallible in faith and morals, but he is not impeccable in opinion. Infallibility serves as the final judge to preserve the faith. He has no authority to dispense the natural law, nor break the faith down and create a new one.

We as laity have to resist the temptation to declare him a heretic and take matters into our own hands. What does FS actually say and what does it actually do? That is what we contemplate

We need to study the natural law and show ourselves approved. It takes an intense love of God to remain steadfast in patience

Like the words of our first Pope to Our Lord. Where else shall we go? You have to words of eternal life. We are in the most dangerous time in the Church. The temptation is there to leave. Many have tried before, and they thought they had very good righteous and scriptural reasons for doing so. What happened to them? Did they preserve the faith and thrive out from under a corrupt hierarchy? Any examination of history shows that they did not.

Only another Pope can call a Pope a heretic. We have the power to do that if we wish, but we do not have the authority. When we act without authority, we act outside the grace of God and leave ourselves susceptible to spiritual deception.

Look what happened to Peter, our first Pope. He denied Our Lord three times and thereby abdicated his ecclesial authority. He wept bitterly and repented, but could he be restored?
He could not take the authority for himself, the other apostles could not give it to him either. Only Our Lord Himself could restore Peter as Pope, which He did after the resurrection.
Simon, son of Jonah lovest thou me? Our Lord called him by his old name three times to equal his denials. Only at the end did Jesus say feed my sheep.

Francis is an old man and will not be Pope forever
Don’t worry, he may be infallible but is prevented from I overstepping his authority. Consider the Catechism:

1956 The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men. It expresses the dignity of the person and determines the basis for his fundamental rights and duties:






1957 Application of the natural law varies greatly; it can demand reflection that takes account of various conditions of life according to places, times, and circumstances. Nevertheless, in the diversity of cultures, the natural law remains as a rule that binds men among themselves and imposes on them, beyond the inevitable differences, common principles.



1958 The natural law is immutable and permanent throughout the variations of history; 10 it subsists under the flux of ideas and customs and supports their progress. The rules that express it remain substantially valid. Even when it is rejected in its very principles, it cannot be destroyed or removed from the heart of man. It always rises again in the life of individuals and societies:





9 Cicero, Rep. III, 22, 33.

10 Cf. GS 10.

11 St. Augustine, Conf. 2, 4, 9: PL 32, 678

Thank you for the clarification.
 
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chevyontheriver

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We need to study the Catechism. Did you know that the Church has no authority to dispense the natural law?
I know that. Cardinal Fernandez has claimed nonetheless that he is teaching the ordinary and perennial teaching of the Church. I call shenanigans.
I am not asking anyone to ascent to Fiducia Suplicans. I am am advocating for remaining in the Church. Pray fast and contemplate why the Holy Spirit is allowing this to happen at this time
I am not assenting to it. I am being pushed hard by people who say I MUST assent to it because it is the ordinary and perennial teaching of the Church because cardinal Fernandez says it is. For the first time in my life I am a dissenter.
The Pope is infallible in faith and morals, but he is not impeccable in opinion. Infallibility serves as the final judge to preserve the faith. He has no authority to dispense the natural law, nor break the faith down and create a new one.

We as laity have to resist the temptation to declare him a heretic and take matters into our own hands. What does FS actually say and what does it actually do? That is what we contemplate
I have yet to call him a heretic. I have not called him an anti-pope either. I have called him a bad pope.

FS says we can bless couples in irregular unions. Had it not said that there would have been little or no problem with FS. Oh, it also said there are non-liturgical blessings and I find that highly dubious. Every blessing, even blessing the food before a meal is liturgical. Perhaps informal but nonetheless liturgical.
We need to study the natural law and show ourselves approved. It takes an intense love of God to remain steadfast in patience

Like the words of our first Pope to Our Lord. Where else shall we go? You have to words of eternal life. We are in the most dangerous time in the Church. The temptation is there to leave. Many have tried before, and they thought they had very good righteous and scriptural reasons for doing so. What happened to them? Did they preserve the faith and thrive out from under a corrupt hierarchy? Any examination of history shows that they did not.
I am sorely pressed to leave, and yet where do I go. I don't see greener pastures. If I did I would need to check my vision anyway.
Only another Pope can call a Pope a heretic. We have the power to do that if we wish, but we do not have the authority. When we act without authority, we act outside the grace of God and leave ourselves susceptible to spiritual deception.
I could call him a heretic, which I haven't just yet, but it would do no good. I could write him a letter too but I suspect it would go unread if the postmark was from the USA.
Francis is an old man and will not be Pope forever
I find it painfully hard to wait.
 
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zippy2006

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They are asking me to drink poison to remain Catholic.And they are telling me it's fine food, the best.

es2vulcmmqa61.jpg
 
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Poison has entered the Church. What is the proper response? Consider the parable of the wheat and the tares. Also I know my sheep and my sheep know me.

It is said that homosexuality is a sin that cries out to heaven. It is time to cry out to God. Do not listen to those that confuse teaching for doctrine that which is not

Psalm 21

My God My God , why have you forsaken me. Far from my prayer, far from the words of my cry? O my God, I cry out by day and you answer not; I cry out by night and there is no relief for me. All my bones are racked. My heart has become like wax melting away within my chest. My throat has become like baked clay, my tongue cleaves to my jaws

Though all calamity befall us, do we now turn away from God? Did Job do that, even when his friends came over and made him more miserable? Do we now take Job’s wife advice and decide to curse God and die?

God forbid! I charge thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire. Be faithful unto death and I will give you a crown of life

Though He slay me, still I will serve Him
 
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The Liturgist

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The Pope is infallible in faith and morals,

Only when teaching ex cathedra. Only twice has Papal infallibility been used, first, in the 19th century, with regards to the Immaculate Conception (which we Orthodox regard as an error) and again in the 20th century with regards to the Assumption (which we agree with, but the doctrine of the Assumption or the Dormition as it is called in the Byzantine Rite was already regarded by us as a part of Holy Tradition, to which we ascribe infallibility (specifically by virtue of its central position in the liturgy of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches; indeed in the Eastern Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches, the final major fast of the church year, which begins on September 1st, is the Dormition Fast, the others being the six week Nativity Fast, the six weeks of the Great Lent, and the variable-length Apostles Fast (which in the defective Revised Julian Calendar used by some Eastern Orthodox churches and also by the Syriac Orthodox, but not in the Gregorian or traditional Julian or Coptic calendar, can have a duration that is a negative number of days, since it basically gets squished by the excess time that forms between Theophany and Septuagesima, which we call the Sunday of the Publican and Pharisee).
 
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chevyontheriver

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es2vulcmmqa61.jpg
I should have done that. I could have been blissfully ignorant. I intended to put him on ignore as of two or three years ago. For a short time I did, and then I stupidly unignored him.
 
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I should have done that. I could have been blissfully ignorant. I intended to put him on ignore as of two or three years ago. For a short time I did, and then I stupidly unignored him.

Based on the recent decision of the Supreme Court in which the Anglican Diocese of Fort Worth, after leaving, or I would argue, being left, by the Episcopal Church (insofar as my view is that when a schism occurs whoever changed the doctrine or praxis in a manner which results in a departure from the ancient doctrine that has the historic attribute of Catholicity as defined by St. Vincent of Lerins is the party which is responsible for the schism, due to Galatians 1:8-9, provided the other party did everything possible according to the principles of reconciliation set forth by our Lord in the Gospels and also by the Apostles in Acts, and further demonstrated by the early church specifically with regards to Nestorius in terms of the attempts at dialogue using the neutral Patriarch John of Antioch as something of an intermediary), it should in principle be possible for a Roman Catholic diocese to put the Vatican on ignore until a new Pope is elected.

Now this all being said, the rebuke of this church by the Vatican was welcome, but I regard it as insufficient, since the fact that Fiducia Supplicans made the bishop of Lexington think that he could get away with this is itself extremely problematic.

The rebuke was enough to make me pull back from adopting a Sedevacantist position with regards to Pope Francis*, but in my view Fiducia Supplicans remains a stumbling block and it needs to be retracted. And considering Bishop Strickland was deposed despite having done nothing wrong, surely the bishop of Lexington should be deposed, and indeed ideally replaced by Bishop Strickland. That would be an appropriate conciliatory move.






*I have never agreed with the Sedevacantists who reject the Papacy of Pope Paul VI, even though I do think Pope Paul VI was a poor leader and is primarily responsible for the SSPX schism, since he approved changes to the liturgy which actually contradicted the instructions of the Second Vatican Council in Sacrosanctum Concilium.**

Another problem I have was the severity of his actions towards the “Black Nobility” as they were called, probably by anti-clericalist elements of the Italian Republic, of the Vatican, for these strike me as being excessive; rather than abolishing them outright, a reform and a crackdown on practices which invited problems, like issuing Vatican City license plates which allowed Vatican City nobility, the former nobility of the Papal States, a certain impunity with regards to obeying traffic laws in Rome and in Italy which even diplomats did not necessarily have, would have been sufficient, since to a large extent these nobility were devout Catholics many of whom volunteered their time providing military service to the Pope alongside the Swiss Guard.

Indeed had they been retained, or if they are restored in the future, I might add, their contributions could in theory reduce the amount of ceremonial duties performed by the Swiss guard and the guard duties performed by Vatican City gendarmes, allowing for the Swiss Guard to improve overall security and allowing for more Gendarmes to be put on the Piazza and in St. Peter’s so as to better protect tourists from pickpockets and other petty criminals (as it is, the Vatican CIty Gendarmes do an amazing job, but with an unpaid, fully trained volunteer force of a few hundred volunteer soldiers from the various units sometimes referred to as the Noble Guard, comprised of Vatican City nobility, living in Rome and speaking the language fluently, it is easy to see how such a force could complement the Gendarmes and the Swiss Guard in a variety of ways. Indeed, the Vatican City nobility could even be democratized, in a sense, by granting membership on the basis of merit to Catholics who could live in Rome and support themselves financially and provide part time military, police and emergency services in the Vatican itself and at its extraterritorial posessions around Rome (which the Gendarmes and Swiss Guard are also partially responsible for), such as the other three major basillicas (St. John Lateran, the actual Cathedral of Rome, and the Lateran Palace, which was historically the residence of the Pope until security concerns many centuries ago caused the Popes to instead relocate to the more defensible Vatican Hill), and also St. Mary Maggiore and St. Paul without the Walls, and of course in the countryside there is the Castel Sant’Angelo.



**Actually my only objection to Sacrosanctum Concilium was its suppression of the office of Prime, which I regard as a particularly beautiful and important part of the Divine Office, or the Liturgy of the Hours as it is also known in the Catholic Church; fortunately that suppression does not impact those communities which use the traditional Latin mass, nor does it affect, as far as I am aware, the Eastern Catholic churches, most or all of which historically celebrated Prime (I recall one Eastern church which only celebrated Terce, Sext and Noone, but I can’t remember which one it was, and it is possible it was the Maronite church, which is the only Eastern Catholic church which implemented reforms similar to those made to the Roman Rite and the Ambrosian Rite.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Based on the recent decision of the Supreme Court in which the Anglican Diocese of Fort Worth, after leaving, or I would argue, being left, by the Episcopal Church (insofar as my view is that when a schism occurs whoever changed the doctrine or praxis in a manner which results in a departure from the ancient doctrine that has the historic attribute of Catholicity as defined by St. Vincent of Lerins is the party which is responsible for the schism, due to Galatians 1:8-9, provided the other party did everything possible according to the principles of reconciliation set forth by our Lord in the Gospels and also by the Apostles in Acts, and further demonstrated by the early church specifically with regards to Nestorius in terms of the attempts at dialogue using the neutral Patriarch John of Antioch as something of an intermediary), it should in principle be possible for a Roman Catholic diocese to put the Vatican on ignore until a new Pope is elected.

Now this all being said, the rebuke of this church by the Vatican was welcome, but I regard it as insufficient, since the fact that Fiducia Supplicans made the bishop of Lexington think that he could get away with this is itself extremely problematic.

The rebuke was enough to make me pull back from adopting a Sedevacantist position with regards to Pope Francis*, but in my view Fiducia Supplicans remains a stumbling block and it needs to be retracted. And considering Bishop Strickland was deposed despite having done nothing wrong, surely the bishop of Lexington should be deposed, and indeed ideally replaced by Bishop Strickland. That would be an appropriate conciliatory move.






*I have never agreed with the Sedevacantists who reject the Papacy of Pope Paul VI, even though I do think Pope Paul VI was a poor leader and is primarily responsible for the SSPX schism, since he approved changes to the liturgy which actually contradicted the instructions of the Second Vatican Council in Sacrosanctum Concilium.**

Another problem I have was the severity of his actions towards the “Black Nobility” as they were called, probably by anti-clericalist elements of the Italian Republic, of the Vatican, for these strike me as being excessive; rather than abolishing them outright, a reform and a crackdown on practices which invited problems, like issuing Vatican City license plates which allowed Vatican City nobility, the former nobility of the Papal States, a certain impunity with regards to obeying traffic laws in Rome and in Italy which even diplomats did not necessarily have, would have been sufficient, since to a large extent these nobility were devout Catholics many of whom volunteered their time providing military service to the Pope alongside the Swiss Guard.

Indeed had they been retained, or if they are restored in the future, I might add, their contributions could in theory reduce the amount of ceremonial duties performed by the Swiss guard and the guard duties performed by Vatican City gendarmes, allowing for the Swiss Guard to improve overall security and allowing for more Gendarmes to be put on the Piazza and in St. Peter’s so as to better protect tourists from pickpockets and other petty criminals (as it is, the Vatican CIty Gendarmes do an amazing job, but with an unpaid, fully trained volunteer force of a few hundred volunteer soldiers from the various units sometimes referred to as the Noble Guard, comprised of Vatican City nobility, living in Rome and speaking the language fluently, it is easy to see how such a force could complement the Gendarmes and the Swiss Guard in a variety of ways. Indeed, the Vatican City nobility could even be democratized, in a sense, by granting membership on the basis of merit to Catholics who could live in Rome and support themselves financially and provide part time military, police and emergency services in the Vatican itself and at its extraterritorial posessions around Rome (which the Gendarmes and Swiss Guard are also partially responsible for), such as the other three major basillicas (St. John Lateran, the actual Cathedral of Rome, and the Lateran Palace, which was historically the residence of the Pope until security concerns many centuries ago caused the Popes to instead relocate to the more defensible Vatican Hill), and also St. Mary Maggiore and St. Paul without the Walls, and of course in the countryside there is the Castel Sant’Angelo.



**Actually my only objection to Sacrosanctum Concilium was its suppression of the office of Prime, which I regard as a particularly beautiful and important part of the Divine Office, or the Liturgy of the Hours as it is also known in the Catholic Church; fortunately that suppression does not impact those communities which use the traditional Latin mass, nor does it affect, as far as I am aware, the Eastern Catholic churches, most or all of which historically celebrated Prime (I recall one Eastern church which only celebrated Terce, Sext and Noone, but I can’t remember which one it was, and it is possible it was the Maronite church, which is the only Eastern Catholic church which implemented reforms similar to those made to the Roman Rite and the Ambrosian Rite.
I am not sedevacantist at all. YET. I'm of the position that wa have a valid pope but a bad pope. I do not hold out much hope of him being deposed because there isn't a mechanism. Individual dioceses can ignore what comes out of the Vatican, and that is actually an old practice. Defying the Vatican sacking your bishop would get interesting though.

Pope Paul VI didn't seem to be fully aware of what was going on. He had his good moments, like when he listened to Karol Wojtyla about birth control. And bad moments, like when he failed to stop the wreckovation of the Latin Rite liturgy. His heart may have been in the right place even if he was often clueless.

And Sacrosanctum Concilium woul be worth trying some day. Not what we ended up with but what Vatican II actually said.
 
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Based on the recent decision of the Supreme Court in which the Anglican Diocese of Fort Worth, after leaving, or I would argue, being left, by the Episcopal Church (insofar as my view is that when a schism occurs whoever changed the doctrine or praxis in a manner which results in a departure from the ancient doctrine that has the historic attribute of Catholicity as defined by St. Vincent of Lerins is the party which is responsible for the schism, due to Galatians 1:8-9, provided the other party did everything possible according to the principles of reconciliation set forth by our Lord in the Gospels and also by the Apostles in Acts, and further demonstrated by the early church specifically with regards to Nestorius in terms of the attempts at dialogue using the neutral Patriarch John of Antioch as something of an intermediary), it should in principle be possible for a Roman Catholic diocese to put the Vatican on ignore until a new Pope is elected.

Now this all being said, the rebuke of this church by the Vatican was welcome, but I regard it as insufficient, since the fact that Fiducia Supplicans made the bishop of Lexington think that he could get away with this is itself extremely problematic.

The rebuke was enough to make me pull back from adopting a Sedevacantist position with regards to Pope Francis*, but in my view Fiducia Supplicans remains a stumbling block and it needs to be retracted. And considering Bishop Strickland was deposed despite having done nothing wrong, surely the bishop of Lexington should be deposed, and indeed ideally replaced by Bishop Strickland. That would be an appropriate conciliatory move.






*I have never agreed with the Sedevacantists who reject the Papacy of Pope Paul VI, even though I do think Pope Paul VI was a poor leader and is primarily responsible for the SSPX schism, since he approved changes to the liturgy which actually contradicted the instructions of the Second Vatican Council in Sacrosanctum Concilium.**

Another problem I have was the severity of his actions towards the “Black Nobility” as they were called, probably by anti-clericalist elements of the Italian Republic, of the Vatican, for these strike me as being excessive; rather than abolishing them outright, a reform and a crackdown on practices which invited problems, like issuing Vatican City license plates which allowed Vatican City nobility, the former nobility of the Papal States, a certain impunity with regards to obeying traffic laws in Rome and in Italy which even diplomats did not necessarily have, would have been sufficient, since to a large extent these nobility were devout Catholics many of whom volunteered their time providing military service to the Pope alongside the Swiss Guard.

Indeed had they been retained, or if they are restored in the future, I might add, their contributions could in theory reduce the amount of ceremonial duties performed by the Swiss guard and the guard duties performed by Vatican City gendarmes, allowing for the Swiss Guard to improve overall security and allowing for more Gendarmes to be put on the Piazza and in St. Peter’s so as to better protect tourists from pickpockets and other petty criminals (as it is, the Vatican CIty Gendarmes do an amazing job, but with an unpaid, fully trained volunteer force of a few hundred volunteer soldiers from the various units sometimes referred to as the Noble Guard, comprised of Vatican City nobility, living in Rome and speaking the language fluently, it is easy to see how such a force could complement the Gendarmes and the Swiss Guard in a variety of ways. Indeed, the Vatican City nobility could even be democratized, in a sense, by granting membership on the basis of merit to Catholics who could live in Rome and support themselves financially and provide part time military, police and emergency services in the Vatican itself and at its extraterritorial posessions around Rome (which the Gendarmes and Swiss Guard are also partially responsible for), such as the other three major basillicas (St. John Lateran, the actual Cathedral of Rome, and the Lateran Palace, which was historically the residence of the Pope until security concerns many centuries ago caused the Popes to instead relocate to the more defensible Vatican Hill), and also St. Mary Maggiore and St. Paul without the Walls, and of course in the countryside there is the Castel Sant’Angelo.



**Actually my only objection to Sacrosanctum Concilium was its suppression of the office of Prime, which I regard as a particularly beautiful and important part of the Divine Office, or the Liturgy of the Hours as it is also known in the Catholic Church; fortunately that suppression does not impact those communities which use the traditional Latin mass, nor does it affect, as far as I am aware, the Eastern Catholic churches, most or all of which historically celebrated Prime (I recall one Eastern church which only celebrated Terce, Sext and Noone, but I can’t remember which one it was, and it is possible it was the Maronite church, which is the only Eastern Catholic church which implemented reforms similar to those made to the Roman Rite and the Ambrosian Rite.
Did you ever study the backlash from Humanae Vitae, and the Canadian Bishops that issued the Winnipeg statement? That had been tried before with disastrous results.

Francis is the Pope and it is best to see what he is really trying to say through careful prayer and thought. Homosexual sex cannot be blessed as it is sin.

There are examples of relationships in the Bible that were of the same sex, and they were called love. The difference is that they did not involve sexual activity mimicking the marital act.
Does Francis really try to bless sodomy?
 
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Did you ever study the backlash from Humanae Vitae, and the Canadian Bishops that issued the Winnipeg statement? That had been tried before with disastrous results.

Canada is not the US. The new Supreme Court ruling opens the door to interesting possibilities for Roman Catholic dioceses, both good and bad (good because if Pope Francis does contradict the Catholic faith, his instructions do not have to be followed, as His Grace Bishop Athanasius Schneider has argued, and there is nothing that can be done about it by the Vatican, and bad, in that when a conservative Pope comes along, it could prove very difficult to dislodge certain liberal diocesan bishops…the best approach would be to promote them to senior offices in the Vatican and then depose them.
 
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There are examples of relationships in the Bible that were of the same sex, and they were called love. The difference is that they did not involve sexual activity mimicking the marital act.
Indeed there are. It is a false narrative that the World tries to teach that one cannot love a member of the same sex in a purely platonic way, the teaching is that if you do then you must be gay or bi, or whatever. It is absolute nonsense, one can love a friend like a brother, even more than a brother - and not have it be sexual in any way at all.
 
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It is a false narrative that the World tries to teach that one cannot love a member of the same sex in a purely platonic way, the teaching is that if you do then you must be gay or bi, or whatever. It is absolute nonsense, one can love a friend like a brother, even more than a brother - and not have it be sexual in any way at all.
I think this is one of the biggest problems of our age, and it is destroying society, especially among the younger generations.
 
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I think this is one of the biggest problems of our age, and it is destroying society, especially among the younger generations.
It’s like people are forced to be gay because they do not have affection for the opposite sex. Perhaps it’s fear, Satan does use his demons of fear more often than his demons of lust. Perhaps it’s disinterest, but regardless, those thoughts have nothing to do with sexual activity, but people are made to feel like it does through peer pressure.

That is coercion and rape, not love. I am happily married to a woman that I love by the grace of God, but at one time in my life, I just wanted to hang out with the guys and have fun in general and I was much happier than when I went on a date with a girl. It was the affection of friends not sexual attraction falsely so called

In today’s world, virgins are looked down upon as unworthy, unattractive, but told they secretly wish they could be like the cool guys with all the women. What do they say? Involuntary celibates! to stir them to shame and envy.

Don’t listen to them. Chastity, voluntary or not frees the mind to act without compulsion or overwhelming desire. There are some friends that I really wish I would have paid more attention to, but I was made to feel inadequate unless I had a girl friend, so I dropped friendship in pursuit of the opposite sex. I believe part of me died when I did that.
Sex is a drug that robs us of peace and joy, unless it is within the grace of God as part of a loving family. You don’t have to have sex to have friends, but our generation was made to feel like a leper if we didn’t.
 
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Indeed, the attack on the virtue and beauty of virginity, and the promotion of Pride, that people who are sodomites should sin again by engaging in Pride, which itself is a terrible and destructive sin, is utterly satanic.
 
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Indeed, the attack on the virtue and beauty of virginity, and the promotion of Pride, that people who are sodomites should sin again by engaging in Pride, which itself is a terrible and destructive sin, is utterly satanic.
Exactly. Being single and celibate is so much more fulfilling than being stuck in a lustful "relationship."
 
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