Why I don't believe in the gay movement

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Please try to read the whole opening post, before leaving.

Before I begin, I want address the rules here, we're on the OBOB and the rules state that promoting Homosexuality. (see here: The OBOB forum's rule about "promoting" homosexuality and here: Statement of Faith - OBOB Statement of Purpose) Now that doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with what I say, cannot criticize what I am about to say, by all means criticize what I write here, but do it within the confines of the rules. However, keep in mind also, that this is more a discussion than a debate. That being said, let's begin:

So when I was a Deist, and had fallen away from the Church, I was originally "neutral" when it came to the whole gay movement. I bought the whole "born that way" claim of the gay movement, in fact, that was actually the only thing that kept me from embracing my the authentic Catholic position.

But something else was happening in my life that would eventually bring my whole neutrality crashing down, as a child, I had a bad relations with my mother, she add poor moral behaviour, she was weak, cowardly, and had a bad temper and was very unforgiving. On top of that I was often at odds with the female teachers at school, the whole thing resulted in me developing a sexual perversion, -it wasn't MILF by the way, it was something else- and I ended up being enslaved to it.

As I struggled with this, I began to look more, and more back to the Catholic Church, and started to question my neutrality to the gay movement. Then, one day, I come across an article written by an ex-gay man, and as I read it, I thought, "this sounds a lot like what I'm going through!" So I start looking into this guy's material, and as I look, my whole neutrality comes crashing down! It became clear to me, that homosexuals are not "born that way," same-sex attraction is usually caused by traumatic (sometimes subtle) events in one's past, in the case of homosexual men, usually it's a bad relation with their fathers. The inappropriate contentography that caters to male homosexuals, is full of paternal motifs, likewise, when I started to take a closer look at the inappropriate contentography that catered to my sexual perversion, I started to see things that pointed to s mother-wound, it started to become clear that the majority of people who suffered my sexual perversion had bad relations with their mothers.

Having joined Christian forums, my position on homosexuality has become even stronger, I am now helping out two women, (not with the perversion itself) who have struggled with same-sex attraction. I have also recently met a fellow-Catholic who had struggle with same-sex attraction. Having seen a few threads and comments recently here on CF, that touch on Same-sex attraction, I felt I needed to post this, and give my testimony, apologies that it's long, but I just needed to let people know. So everyone, tell me, what do you think of my testimony?

 

[Michie]

I think it was very brave of you to break away from the worldly narrative and give your personal testimony. Is everyone's testimony the same? Certainly not. But your desire to be obedient to the Gospel and the teachings of the Church is something to be admired in my opinion. You seem to have a gift of humility which is a gift because it allows God to mold you and lead you which makes your spiritual growth more advanced than most. Very rare these days. None of us, regardless of sexual orientation or whatever the thorn is in our sides we live with daily, are not too keen on picking up our cross and carrying it to follow the Lord. You seem like you are open to going down that path, as tough as it is, to follow Him. Not to try to change it. God bless you!

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

I think it was very brave of you to break away from the worldly narrative and give your personal testimony. Is everyone's testimony the same? Certainly not. But your desire to be obedient to the Gospel and the teachings of the Church is something to be admired in my opinion. You seem to have a gift of humility which is a gift because it allows God to mold you and lead you which makes your spiritual growth more advanced than most. Very rare these days. None of us, regardless of sexual orientation or whatever the thorn is in our sides we live with daily, are not too keen on picking up our cross and carrying it to follow the Lord. You seem like you are open to going down that path, as tough as it is, to follow Him. Not to try to change it. God bless you!

Thanks Michie, I know that bearing the Cross of Our Lord, is infinitely better then the meaningless pleasure of this life.

 

[salt-n-light]

I have once identified as a bisexual Christian, and was questioning God's view on me, until God convicted me through this verse "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matt 16:24). I realized that I wasn't denying myself, but labeling my desires to be truths about me.I wasn't crucifying my flesh. I've always been in the church and knew of the Word, but that moment was so freeing, all the self-identifying labels of this world faded away, along with the desires of my sinful nature, and now I can truly say I've fully embraced being just a child of God.

I'm just praying that God removes the fear from me so that I can witness to others who have walked my path.

Thank you for being brave to share your testimony, it gave me the courage to share mine.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

I have once identified as a bisexual Christian, and was questioning God's view on me, until God convicted me through this verse "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matt 16:24). I realized that I wasn't denying myself, but labeling my desires to be truths about me.I wasn't crucifying my flesh. I've always been in the church and knew of the Word, but that moment was so freeing, all the self-identifying labels of this world faded away, along with the desires of my sinful nature, and now I can truly say I've fully embraced being just a child of God.

I'm just praying that God removes the fear from me so that I can witness to others who have walked my path.

Thank you for being brave to share your testimony, it gave me the courage to share mine.

Well done!

 

[Genersis]

..It became clear to me, that homosexuals are not "born that way," same-sex attraction is usually caused by traumatic (sometimes subtle) events in one's past, in the case of homosexual men, usually it's a bad relation with their fathers.
...

May I enquire what lead you to believe such?
I know it is a very popular belief among folk who aren't so keen on gay rights, but it's pretty baseless, as well as tasteless.

Be it due to inadvertently accusing people's parents of molestation, or simply having a distant father; as if having a father that was often away working/drinking/in prison/missing/ETC while the mother looked after the kids wasn't a fairly common household situation over the last 60 years.

Sexual orientation is influenced by hormones during fetal development and genetics, as well as societal factors(in other words, both nature and nurture). It's a complex issue. "born this way" or not, it doesn't make a difference either way. Sexual orientation isn't some actively chosen easily changed characteristic. Even if it were, it's not exactly a sound reason for opposing them enjoying the same rights their heterosexual peers do.

 

[Michie]

Here we go...

 

[Michie]

Here we go... It's a testimony folks. Not a chance to debate or whip out the apologetics.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

May I enquire what lead you to believe such?
I know it is a very popular belief among folk who aren't so keen on gay rights, but it's pretty baseless, as well as tasteless.

Be it due to inadvertently accusing people's parents of molestation, or simply having a distant father; as if having a father that was often away working/drinking/in prison/missing/ETC while the mother looked after the kids wasn't a fairly common household situation over the last 60 years.

Sexual orientation is influenced by hormones during fetal development and genetics, as well as societal factors(in other words, both nature and nurture). It's a complex issue. "born this way" or not, it doesn't make a difference either way. Sexual orientation isn't some actively chosen easily changed characteristic. Even if it were, it's not exactly a sound reason for opposing them enjoying the same rights their heterosexual peers do.

I did give a reason as to how I came to such a realization, male-homosexual inappropriate contentography. *(Not that I would encourage anyone of looking at male-homosexual inappropriate contentography)* Male-homosexual inappropriate contentography is full of father-son motifs, and these motifs are shockingly explicit, in contrast with my sexually perverse inappropriate content, where the mother-son motif are much more subtle.

I never argued for the changing of sexual orientation, the Catholic position neither encourages nor discourages the changing of sexual orientation, it simply calls for chastity. Same-sex attraction is not, in and of itself sinful, it is just disordered, homosexual thoughts and actions are sinful, and must be fought. the Catholic Church calls for the homosexual to live chastely, and not engage in homosexual thoughts and activity, seeking reparative therapy is optional.

While I did entitle this thread: "Why I don't believe in the gay movement" the theme of this thread is more geared towards, a personal level, of individuals with same-sex attraction, rather than the socio-political controversy of State-fabricated unions between persons of the same-sex.

 

[Wolseley]

May God bless you as you continue to seek to serve Him and to adhere to His commandments. Fighting against well-entrenched proclivities is not an easy thing to do---especially in the current age of societal decay and the wholesale abandonment of 5,000 years' worth of moral teachings. Stay strong, and don't give up. If you keep very close to the instructions of Christ and the Church, and refuse to drink the sexual poison the world is pushing so hard right now, you will be all right.

 

[Open Heart]

Please try to read the whole opening post, before leaving.

Before I begin, I want address the rules here, we're on the OBOB and the rules state that promoting Homosexuality. (see here: The OBOB forum's rule about "promoting" homosexuality and here: Statement of Faith - OBOB Statement of Purpose) Now that doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with what I say, cannot criticize what I am about to say, by all means criticize what I write here, but do it within the confines of the rules. However, keep in mind also, that this is more a discussion than a debate. That being said, let's begin:

So when I was a Deist, and had fallen away from the Church, I was originally "neutral" when it came to the whole gay movement. I bought the whole "born that way" claim of the gay movement, in fact, that was actually the only thing that kept me from embracing my the authentic Catholic position.

But something else was happening in my life that would eventually bring my whole neutrality crashing down, as a child, I had a bad relations with my mother, she add poor moral behaviour, she was weak, cowardly, and had a bad temper and was very unforgiving. On top of that I was often at odds with the female teachers at school, the whole thing resulted in me developing a sexual perversion, -it wasn't MILF by the way, it was something else- and I ended up being enslaved to it.

As I struggled with this, I began to look more, and more back to the Catholic Church, and started to question my neutrality to the gay movement. Then, one day, I come across an article written by an ex-gay man, and as I read it, I thought, "this sounds a lot like what I'm going through!" So I start looking into this guy's material, and as I look, my whole neutrality comes crashing down! It became clear to me, that homosexuals are not "born that way," same-sex attraction is usually caused by traumatic (sometimes subtle) events in one's past, in the case of homosexual men, usually it's a bad relation with their fathers. The inappropriate contentography that caters to male homosexuals, is full of paternal motifs, likewise, when I started to take a closer look at the inappropriate contentography that catered to my sexual perversion, I started to see things that pointed to s mother-wound, it started to become clear that the majority of people who suffered my sexual perversion had bad relations with their mothers.

Having joined Christian forums, my position on homosexuality has become even stronger, I am now helping out two women, (not with the perversion itself) who have struggled with same-sex attraction. I have also recently met a fellow-Catholic who had struggle with same-sex attraction. Having seen a few threads and comments recently here on CF, that touch on Same-sex attraction, I felt I needed to post this, and give my testimony, apologies that it's long, but I just needed to let people know. So everyone, tell me, what do you think of my testimony?

First let me say that I am very glad that you have come home to the Catholic Church, and that you have found peace with yourself. That's a very good place to be.

Let me say right up front that I'm a Magisterial Catholic. I believe that homosexual acts are sins, although it is not a sin to have the orientation, exactly as the Church teaches. I am unmarried, having been divorced for 25 years now, and I will never remarry, even though I have a Church annulment. Because I am unmarried, and consider this a permanent state, you see that I identify myself as celibate.

I think that things are much more complicated than you have made them out to be, and I don't mean to disrespect you by saying so. You have had your own battles, and I personally know what that's like, and don't want to diminish that.

That said, homosexuality can't be stuck into an either/or box of nature/nurture. There are many different causes of homosexuality. Some seem to be prenatal exposure to hormones during certain times of the pregnancy, effecting the brain's wiring. Sometimes it seems to be related to a biologically based amorphous sexuality (and women in general do tend to be more sexually amorphous than men). Sometimes homosexuality gets confused when the person is transgender (Transgenderism almost deserves its own thread, and certainly its own post). Other times it is, as you said, due to trauma (I've certainly met lesbians who won't be touched by a man because of the molest they endured as children).

But that's not the only point I'd like to make. Here are the others:

1. No one consciously chooses to be gay. (Some people are bisexual, which is not the same, but even in that case, although a bisexual person can choose which attraction they will accommodate, they still don't choose who they are attracted to, and will be attracted to both.) You didn't *choose* the perversion you struggled with, did you? Even though it was part of the "nurture" box, you didn't sit down one day and think, "Gee I think I'm going to be an X."

2. Those who are bisexual who have "fed" the gay half can "switch over" to the straight half and begin to "feed" it instead. These are the success stories you hear about. But someone who is truly gay, who has NEVER wanted someone of the opposite sex, you are NEVER going to get that person to change who they are attracted to. The best you can do with such a person is give them a fulfilled celibate life. People think I'm whacko for suggesting that, but hey, permanent celibacy is what I'm doing and I'm just fine.

3. Remember that actions are sins. Orientations are not. You know at one time in history, left handedness was thought to be evil. That's why in English we have the same word for Moral (Right), True (Right) and the Right hand side. It is simply the human nature to be afraid of what is different and condemn it. If we could remove the sin from the picture, gays actually have a lot to contribute to society -- from being great hair dressers and interior decorators (I know I'm being cliche but its SO true) to being natural babysitters for kids in the family to actually setting good standards for male dress. They make good friends -- it's nice to have a man around who you know isn't going to hit on you. Can we please do as the church encourages and be loving and accepting of them, even as we reject homosexual sex?

 

[Open Heart]

Male-homosexual inappropriate contentography is full of father-son motifs

Is it really Father-Son? Or is it an ephebophelia thing? I seriously don't know as male/male inappropriate content is something I've never looked at.

 

[Open Heart]

the Catholic calls for the homosexual to live chastely

That about summons everything up. I mean, it is complicated. A lot of other stuff needs to be said. But in the end, this is what we come back to.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

2. Those who are bisexual who have "fed" the gay half can "switch over" to the straight half and begin to "feed" it instead. These are the success stories you hear about. But someone who is truly gay, who has NEVER wanted someone of the opposite sex, you are NEVER going to get that person to change who they are attracted to. The best you can do with such a person is give them a fulfilled celibate life. People think I'm whacko for suggesting that, but hey, permanent celibacy is what I'm doing and I'm just fine.

One of the women I mentioned above, is like this, she knows she can't have natural sexual relations with men, so I am fully aware of this.

Also, I'd advise you know to use the term "gay" because that term has a specific cultural and political meaning. We should stick the terms that actually describe the individuals and their sexual perversions like "homosexual" and "same-sex attractions." (Albeit, the private term I've coined, for my own sexual perversion, is somewhat euphemistic.)

 

[Open Heart]

Also, I'd advise you know to use the term "gay" because that term has a specific cultural and political meaning. We should stick the terms that actually describe the individuals and their sexual perversions like "homosexual" and "same-sex attractions." (Albeit, the private term I've coined, for my own sexual perversion, is somewhat euphemistic.)

Oh, I'm so out in this forum. They don't have a scientific word for me. The slang is crossdreaming--that roughly fits me, though don't put me into the one sentences boxes you get online. The only thing is that I no longer consciously fantasize that I'm a man, I just have the night dreams that i'm a man. It's a form of transgenderism, but I don't cross dress nor will I ever transition. I'm fine being a woman with an inner man. Once I simply accepted myself as I am, but also eliminated that part which was sin, it was amazing how much easier and more peaceful everything got.

I'm an open book. Don't feel like you need to be equally revelatory.

I tend to use words like gay, transgender, crossdream, when I'm talking with friends because it's casual conversation and those are the casual words. I learned way back when I was a kid that if you use dictionary words in casual conversation, people think you are a nerd and don't want to talk to you anymore. An internet forum can go either way. It depends on whom you are talking to.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

I tend to use words like gay, transgender, crossdream, when I'm talking with friends because it's casual conversation and those are the casual words. I learned way back when I was a kid that if you use dictionary words in casual conversation, people think you are a nerd and don't want to talk to you anymore. An internet forum can go either way. It depends on whom you are talking to.

I understand, I just think that, with all the doublespeak going on in the world right now, we should call things what the are. Though, as you've said, there is at the same time a need to be, not as overly technical with words.

 

[Tomm]

Sexual orientation is influenced by hormones during fetal development and genetics, as well as societal factors(in other words, both nature and nurture). It's a complex issue. "born this way" or not, it doesn't make a difference either way. Sexual orientation isn't some actively chosen easily changed characteristic. Even if it were, it's not exactly a sound reason for opposing them enjoying the same rights their heterosexual peers do.

A top researcher with the American Psychological Association (APA) and lesbian activist has acknowledged that gays are not "born that way."

APA researcher explodes myth: Gays aren’t ‘born that way’

 

[Open Heart]

A top researcher with the American Psychological Association (APA) and lesbian activist has acknowledged that gays are not "born that way."

APA researcher explodes myth: Gays aren’t ‘born that way’

The problem that I have with this article is not that it misquotes her, it's that it doesn't properly present her position. She doesn't believe that womb environment plays no part at all, and good heavens she does not think that people "choose" their orientation. Her view is complex. Many human beings are more amorphous, especially women, and can kind of develop different tastes. Others cannot. It depends on where you fall on the scale.

Genersis is correct. It's a complicated matter. It's true that people who say "They're born that way" are oversimplifying it and should stop saying it because life experiences have a lot to say about our orientation -- it is not uncommon for women raped as girls to grow up as lesbians (or to be promiscuous, another common response). But those who say, "Genetics, epigenetics, and womb environment have nothing to do with it," are oversimplifying it JUST AS MUCH.