Don’t give up on the Church – and certainly not because of Fiducia Supplicans

[Michie]

Christmas is coming, the goose is getting fat and a lot of Catholics are arguing after the release of Fiducia Supplicans. Welcome to the contentious end of 2023!

Back in 2018 I was at a Catholic event and ran into Austen Ivereigh, the Catholic journalist, author and biographer of Pope Francis. I explained to him that I had just been granted an annulment after four long years of waiting. He was prompted to apologise to me for the length of time it had taken and the hardship I must have endured. I was surprised by this. I had been happy to wait and had endured no real hardship, but I understood that he was being nice.

Many people around me were also surprised that I was not protesting at the level of interrogation into my private life; at waiting to find out whether I was considered free to marry. “Who does the Church think it is?” some people asked during my time of waiting. “It’s not a very nice way to behave.”

On a merely human level where Nice trumps Truth, they might have been right. One might well wonder how anyone, let alone a number of celibate clergy, could possibly make such a significant judgement about my life with the potential for such far reaching consequences.

But if the Church really was who I believed Her to be, then I had to push my ego aside, trust in Her and know that whatever the outcome it will be right by God. Of this, I could be sure and in this I found comfort.

As we argue about the contents of Fiducia Supplicans, with Catholics threatening to walk away from the Church, Anglicans crowing that converts to Catholicism have gone from the frying pan into the fire, and couples in a homosexual relationship looking to plan a spontaneous, non-affirming, casually dressed blessing from Fr James Martin or any other obliging priest, it seems we have allowed despair to cloud hope as clarity gives way to ambiguity.

None of this is to say that the document is a good one or that those behind it aren’t guilty of causing confusion, even division (whatever the unknown intentions). But to be a Catholic is to believe that the Church is more than human; that She is graced with Christ’s real presence and promise of guidance into all Truth, irrespective of what we think we can see now – as C.S. Lewis noted: “You have never seen more than an appearance of anything”.

If that is correct then no Catholic should be running anywhere, Anglicans have no need to crow, and people who experience same sex attraction need to understand Fiducia Supplicans in light of the traditional teaching of the Church. If the latter fail to do so, or are not directed to, then there is little point turning to the Church only to be given what the world already offers.

Continued below.

Don’t give up on the Church – and certainly not because of Fiducia Supplicans - Catholic Herald

Christmas is coming, the goose is getting fat and a lot of Catholics are arguing after the release of Fiducia Supplicans. Welcome to the contentious end of 2023! Back in 2018 I was at a Catholic event and ran into Austen Ivereigh, the Catholic journalist, author and biographer of Pope Francis. I...

catholicherald.co.uk

 

[fide]

I'm sorry, but I get tired of hearing "oh, we've had bad popes before - nothing happening here folks move along... move along..." These times are like all times - all is the same - nothing has changed - relax - don't get all 'apocalyptic' on us, now...

But the Last Days WILL COME. The last day will be a day, the last pope will be a pope, that final apostasy will be really the last and really a fall into unbelief, the abomination of desolation will be a true abomination in the sight and judgment, mind and heart of God, and it will make desolate the Holy Place as God knows and defines His Holy Place.

It all reminds me of this:

2Pe 3:4 .... "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
2Pe 3:5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
2Pe 3:6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[o_mlly]

If that is correct then no Catholic should be running anywhere ...

"Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life" (John 6:68).

The tortuous theological legalism used in Fiducia Supplicans to develop such a novel understanding of "blessing" is and will be the ongoing root cause of confusion in the laity.

This confusion could have been avoided if the document also reminded the pastors of their obligation to admonish those living in objective sin. As Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger did in 1994:

... pastors and confessors, given the gravity of the matter and the spiritual good of these persons as well as the common good of the Church, have the serious duty to admonish them.

LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
CONCERNING THE RECEPTION OF HOLY COMMUNION
BY THE DIVORCED AND REMARRIED MEMBERS OF THE FAITHFUL

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm sorry, but I get tired of hearing "oh, we've had bad popes before - nothing happening here folks move along... move along..." These times are like all times - all is the same - nothing has changed - relax - don't get all 'apocalyptic' on us, now...

But the Last Days WILL COME. The last day will be a day, the last pope will be a pope, that final apostasy will be really the last and really a fall into unbelief, the abomination of desolation will be a true abomination in the sight and judgment, mind and heart of God, and it will make desolate the Holy Place as God knows and defines His Holy Place.

Some day it's GONNA happen. Right now that day seems like it could be really soon. We have had a sort of abomination already with Pachamama in St. Peter's in late 2019 and then the mass being taken away by Covid. We've had orgies in the Vatican. OK, we have had orgies with some of those old popes too, so not the first time. Bad things happen as a consequence of bad popes. We should expect bad times to be upon us again. Maybe really bad times. Maybe apocalyptic bad times.

Something has changed. Everything is not the same as it was before pope Francis. Will it be undone? Or is it all downhill from here? I donno. But I'm thinking it's time for me to straighten out and fly right. Maybe for the rest of us too. Persevere. Don't pretend.

 

[fide]

Some day it's GONNA happen. Right now that day seems like it could be really soon. We have had a sort of abomination already with Pachamama in St. Peter's in late 2019 and then the mass being taken away by Covid. We've had orgies in the Vatican. OK, we have had orgies with some of those old popes too, so not the first time. Bad things happen as a consequence of bad popes. We should expect bad times to be upon us again. Maybe really bad times. Maybe apocalyptic bad times.

Something has changed. Everything is not the same as it was before pope Francis. Will it be undone? Or is it all downhill from here? I donno. But I'm thinking it's time for me to straighten out and fly right. Maybe for the rest of us too. Persevere. Don't pretend.

And to some, or maybe to all of "the rest of us", the call has been sent for souls willing - as were the eager three children of Fatima - to "suffer for the poor sinners" who are not seeing as clearly, or hearing as clearly, as some have been so blessed to see and hear the wounded hearts of Jesus and Mary. The entire Body is blessed by the Holy Love of a few, or wounded and violated by the careless sins and carnal idolatries of others.

Over the past few recent years my wife and I were blessed to encounter two different men - the second inspired by the first to follow his example - two who were on solitary walking (yes, walking) pilgrimages to Marian shrines across America, to pray for the lost and the sinners of the world. We all are offered sufferings, mild or severe, daily, which we can accept patiently (or even gratefully in union with the Cross) or fight against and complain about to Him who carried His own in love for us all. We are called to holiness, in a word, and He has defined that word for us by His life.

The Body, the Bride, needs holiness in her members, and He deserves no less.

 

[The Liturgist]

And to some, or maybe to all of "the rest of us", the call has been sent for souls willing - as were the eager three children of Fatima - to "suffer for the poor sinners" who are not seeing as clearly, or hearing as clearly, as some have been so blessed to see and hear the wounded hearts of Jesus and Mary. The entire Body is blessed by the Holy Love of a few, or wounded and violated by the careless sins and carnal idolatries of others.

Over the past few recent years my wife and I were blessed to encounter two different men - the second inspired by the first to follow his example - two who were on solitary walking (yes, walking) pilgrimages to Marian shrines across America, to pray for the lost and the sinners of the world. We all are offered sufferings, mild or severe, daily, which we can accept patiently (or even gratefully in union with the Cross) or fight against and complain about to Him who carried His own in love for us all. We are called to holiness, in a word, and He has defined that word for us by His life.

The Body, the Bride, needs holiness in her members, and He deserves no less.

That was beautifully expressed with utmost piety. Thank you for that.

 

[Buzzard3]

This confusion could have been avoided if the document also reminded the pastors of their obligation to admonish those living in objective sin.

That would have torpedoed what I think FS is - ie, an attempt to make same-sex couples acceptable in the Church (regardless of the fact that CCC #2358 says homosexual inclinations are "objectively disordered").

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The OP mentioned the annulment process. Some of you may know that I was born Catholic, rebelled and became Protestant, and was called home to His Church in 2003.

At that time, even though I was Catholic, I had retained some of the arrogance I had as a Protestant, thinking that I knew better. I had a doubtful conscience regarding contraception, and a presumption regarding annulment.

I divorced and remarried prior to getting an annulment thinking that it was a matter of course and I didn’t have the time to wait. I received the affirmative answer to my annulment, but my priest said that my current non-Catholic wife had to have her previous marriages annulled in order for me to receive the sacraments.

That was a chore convincing her to go through a process that she does not believe in so that I could practice a religion that she opposes, but she did it.

I had to do the leg work and get all the documents of her previous marriages and divorces. Then I had to locate the current address of her ex husband that she hadn’t spoke to in twenty years, and convince her to go through an interview with a man about her personal life to assist in writing the annulment request and convince her non-Catholic parents and brother and sister in law to serve as witnesses. Tell me that did not happen except by the grace of God. After that, we received an affirmative answer that her marriages were annulled. One for lack of form because on of her husbands was Catholic, but the other was a nonCatholic wedding to another nonCatholic, but it still required annulment because my wife was baptized SDA at the time of her marriage.

Seems complicated and it is because even though all of our marriages were annulled, my wife would not consent to a Catholic wedding. Thankfully my priest contacted the Bishop and he gave me a radical sanation, which means cleansing to the root. This sanctified and sealed my current marriage, but the caveat is that it can never be annulled not even by the Pope. This meant that if my nonCatholic wife decided to leave me or divorce me, I could never be with another woman under the pain of mortal sin.
Sounds crazy and who would ever go through all that just to receive communion? Just show up anonymously at any Mass and get in line. The priest hands out communion to anyone, no one would know. But if I received communion unworthily, I would bring condemnation on my self and I would know and we know God knows.

It was after that I submitted to the full authority of the Church, that the sin that so easily beset me before was gone. The grace of God flows through the sacraments and His Church and I got to experience it first hand. Fear came over me. It was not a voice or a vision, but a realization that God said look at the evil and stupidity you have committed in your life and how much mercy you have had shown you. Do you really want to sin mortally again? I thought no, yet I felt weak and did not trust myself, so I remembered the man in the Bible that said I believe help thou my unbelief

The Lord heard me and He forgives and cleanses His sheep that come to Him with broken and contrite spirits. No priest ever need apologize to me for the length or the burden of the process. I have died to myself as the Lord requires and shown myself to His priest the same way He told the lepers to do when they were cleansed. I would not trade this grace for any mortal sin Satan has to offer.

God gives grave to those that come as little children that come home to their mother. Fiducia Suplicans won’t change that because the grace flows Ex Opere Operato. The faithful know that sodomy is sinful by the natural law, and those that study the catechism know that though the Pope is the Vicar of Christ while on Earth and he has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, he has no
Authority to dispense the natural law.
Submit whole heartedly to Christ and His Church, but never submit to an authority that the Pope does not have, and that is to dispense the natural law. The Pope has no authority to grant me another annulment, nor has he the authority to bless sodomy. Is that what FS attempts to do? I am not sure, and the confusion allows some to claim that it does. I pray that the confusion can be cleared

 

[Michie]

The OP mentioned the annulment process. Some of you may know that I was born Catholic, rebelled and became Protestant, and was called home to His Church in 2003.

At that time, even though I was Catholic, I had retained some of the arrogance I had as a Protestant, thinking that I knew better. I had a doubtful conscience regarding contraception, and a presumption regarding annulment.

I divorced and remarried prior to getting an annulment thinking that it was a matter of course and I didn’t have the time to wait. I received the affirmative answer to my annulment, but my priest said that my current non-Catholic wife had to have her previous marriages annulled in order for me to receive the sacraments.

That was a chore convincing her to go through a process that she does not believe in so that I could practice a religion that she opposes, but she did it.

I had to do the leg work and get all the documents of her previous marriages and divorces. Then I had to locate the current address of her ex husband that she hadn’t spoke to in twenty years, and convince her to go through an interview with a man about her personal life to assist in writing the annulment request and convince her non-Catholic parents and brother and sister in law to serve as witnesses. Tell me that did not happen except by the grace of God. After that, we received an affirmative answer that her marriages were annulled. One for lack of form because on of her husbands was Catholic, but the other was a nonCatholic wedding to another nonCatholic, but it still required annulment because my wife was baptized SDA at the time of her marriage.

Seems complicated and it is because even though all of our marriages were annulled, my wife would not consent to a Catholic wedding. Thankfully my priest contacted the Bishop and he gave me a radical sanation, which means cleansing to the root. This sanctified and sealed my current marriage, but the caveat is that it can never be annulled not even by the Pope. This meant that if my nonCatholic wife decided to leave me or divorce me, I could never be with another woman under the pain of mortal sin.
Sounds crazy and who would ever go through all that just to receive communion? Just show up anonymously at any Mass and get in line. The priest hands out communion to anyone, no one would know. But if I received communion unworthily, I would bring condemnation on my self and I would know and we know God knows.

It was after that I submitted to the full authority of the Church, that the sin that so easily beset me before was gone. The grace of God flows through the sacraments and His Church and I got to experience it first hand. Fear came over me. It was not a voice or a vision, but a realization that God said look at the evil and stupidity you have committed in your life and how much mercy you have had shown you. Do you really want to sin mortally again? I thought no, yet I felt weak and did not trust myself, so I remembered the man in the Bible that said I believe help thou my unbelief

The Lord heard me and He forgives and cleanses His sheep that come to Him with broken and contrite spirits. No priest ever need apologize to me for the length or the burden of the process. I have died to myself as the Lord requires and shown myself to His priest the same way He told the lepers to do when they were cleansed. I would not trade this grace for any mortal sin Satan has to offer.

God gives grave to those that come as little children that come home to their mother. Fiducia Suplicans won’t change that because the grace flows Ex Opere Operato. The faithful know that sodomy is sinful by the natural law, and those that study the catechism know that though the Pope is the Vicar of Christ while on Earth and he has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, he has no
Authority to dispense the natural law.
Submit whole heartedly to Christ and His Church, but never submit to an authority that the Pope does not have, and that is to dispense the natural law. The Pope has no authority to grant me another annulment, nor has he the authority to bless sodomy. Is that what FS attempts to do? I am not sure, and the confusion allows some to claim that it does. I pray that the confusion can be cleared

Thank you for your testimony!

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Thank you for your testimony!

I don’t deserve it but people need to hear that God is real, His Church has authority by His Holy Spirit and His promises, not by the people that occupy the offices of the hierarchy. The hierarchy itself has authority but it does not come from people, it is by God’s design
When we see that and submit to that authority as a little child, the graces come with such power, that my words can fail description but as close that I can describe it, it is a mixture of fear and gratitude.
Fear that I was such an arrogant presumptuous sinner deserving of the full wrath of God. Gratitude that God did not judge me, but had mercy beyond all my expectations. I am as the subject that owed his king and astronomical amount he could never repay, begged for mercy and received it.
I will not be as the man in the parable however. No one owes me anything and if anyone feels that they would owe me anything, the debt is instantly discharged and I am their servant, not they me.
Some may think that my posts are long winded and therefore self serving. Brother I understand your thoughts, but I know in my flesh is no good thing and anyone has my permission to roll their eyes and despise me, but I can tell you that God
Loves you too and will pour His grace on you through His sacraments as He did me. I am not special and am as the lowest of the low, not worthy. All I can say is that His word is faithful and true. He does stand at the door and knock, and if you open the door, He will come in as promised. Not to give you imputed righteousness as told by some, but He actually takes your sins away now in real time if you let Him. It also helps if we approach as little children. A child does not stand alone before his father, we do have a mother