Righteousness by Faith

[EastCoastRemnant]

When people use the label of "Christian", it communicates certain things about who they are, such as that they are someone who observes Christmas and Easter, but doesn't observe God's holy days, or someone who worships on Sunday, but doesn't keep God's Sabbath, so there are many Messianics who believe that the Bible is true, but prefer not to call themselves "Christians" because it communicates incorrect things about what they believe or because of the reputation that Christians have earned with regard to their treatment of Jews. Using the Hebrew names of the people in the Bible emphasizes their Jewishness and communicates that they interpret the Bible with an emphasis placed on its Jewish cultural context. There are many who treat Jesus as if he were a white European instead of a Middle Eastern Jew. Some people are not even aware that Jesus was Jewish and I have a friend who went to seminary who said that if he had been told that Jesus was Jewish, then it would have completely changed his outlook on the Bible.

There are also verses in the Bible that talk about calling on the name of the Lord, so some figure that they should use the name that he went by when calling upon it. However, God still answers the prayers of the people who use the name "Jesus". Some like to argue about whether his name was Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahushua, or some other variant, but I think in the Bible a person's name was more more about who they were and what their reputation was than about what they were referred to as. I would recommend going through a study on the meaning of the names of people in the Bible because that was an important dynamic. Some Jews follow a tradition where they don't want to say God's name because then they won't ever risk accidentally taking God's name in vain, but I think that again misses the point because someone can bring honor to God's name or take God's name in vain without ever saying it. Someone who uses the name "Jesus", but who has a good understanding of who God is and what His reputations is has a better understanding of God's name than someone who refers to Him in the right way, but doesn't have good understanding of who God is and what His reputation is.

Thank you so much for that insightful and considered answer....
We call our selves, as you know, Adventists, SDA, Sabbath keepers or Remnant for the same reason... to show our distinctive views from mainstrem Christendom.

 

[masmpg]

This sounds (without further explanation)
a lot like the "bless me" crowd = "name it and claim it"
which is not available to ecclesia born again ones immersed in Y'SHUA living HIS LIFE.
YHWH FREELY GIVES Righteousness, Peace, and Joy ongoing, fully, without measure hand-in-hand with Healing and Salvation.
All these and more
without having to "claim these"....
Rather to REJOICE WITH THANKSGIVING like the
lame man who went singing and dancing for SHEER JOY !
and the man blind from birth
who COULD SEE NOW _ AND DID NOT EVEN KNOW HOW !
(they weren't healed nor saved by "claiming it").

Even though we do agree on many issues, this is most certainly what everyone has to do in order to receive any blessings from God. ALL who were healed were either asked by Jesus or they asked Him. We have to acknowledge the power of God by our consent (claiming) or by asking Him for it. We are told in 1John:1:9: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This is one of the most wonderful promises and is beyond our human comprehension that God would forgive us sinners who murdered His Son. But the condition is IF we ask. Do you think Jesus gives to everyone without asking? Do you believe that everyone is living Christ's righteousness? That is what faith is, claiming the promise as our own, not just an empty belief, we must know that all God offers us already belongs to us when we ask Him for it. But we must ask then claim it before we realize it. Hebrews:11:1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

God bless

 

[masmpg]

That's still doesn't answer my question though... your first language is (I'm assuming again) English, right? I don't see you writing your responses in Hebrew so when you are using English why not use the name Jesus? Is there something offensive to you about the name Jesus?

Please don't think I'm trying to be glib... I just have never understood it and desire to.

I've always wondered about this myself. I have a lady friend who is not jewish but she places such high value on the feast days and the jewish rituals that it is hard to communicate to her on a biblical level. Romans 11 is clear about who was cut off the parent stock, and who was grafted in and why. Paul also makes reference to those who try to be jews but are not.

 

[Dave-W]

Romans 11 is clear about who was cut off the parent stock, and who was grafted in and why.

Indeed. Except the Jews were not "cut" off from the parent stock; they were BROKEN off. There is a difference.(read the text closer next time)

It is the gentiles who were "cut" from the tree of destruction and grafted into the cultivated olive tree (Israel) Cut branches can be grafted in anywhere. Broken branches can be grafted back in ONLY from the exact point they were broken from.

And the WHY is listed in verse 11: " ... by their [Jews] transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous."

Are you making any traditional Jews jealous to have your relationship to their God?

 

[masmpg]

Indeed. Except the Jews were not "cut" off from the parent stock; they were BROKEN off. There is a difference.(read the text closer next time)

Good point! I am not here to argue, nor compete. I love every new ray os light the Lord reveals to me through all the brothers and sisters on this site.

And the WHY is listed in verse 11: " ... by their [Jews] transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous."

Are you making any traditional Jews jealous to have your relationship to their God?

I certainly hope so.

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you so much for that insightful and considered answer....
We call our selves, as you know, Adventists, SDA, Sabbath keepers or Remnant for the same reason... to show our distinctive views from mainstrem Christendom.

You're welcome. I forgot to mention these verses:

Exodus 34:5-7 The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the Lord. 6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands,[a] forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

In this verses, the name of the Lord is being proclaimed by describing who He is.

 

[Soyeong]

I've always wondered about this myself. I have a lady friend who is not jewish but she places such high value on the feast days and the jewish rituals that it is hard to communicate to her on a biblical level. Romans 11 is clear about who was cut off the parent stock, and who was grafted in and why. Paul also makes reference to those who try to be jews but are not.

In 1 Peter 1:13-16, we are told to have a holy conduct not because we should be like Jews or because we are under the Mosaic Covenant, but because God is holy, so having a holy conduct, such as observing God's holy days, is about identifying what God's holiness, not about identifying as Jews. The same goes with the fact that we should have a righteous conduct because the God that we serve is righteous, not because we are trying to be like Jews. When Paul talked about not being like Jews, he was referring to someone who lived according to Jewish man-made traditions or laws, not to someone lived according to God's law. In Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a Jewish law that prohibited them from visiting or associating with Gentiles, but this is not a law that is found anywhere in God's law, and in fact goes against God's law because it is rather difficult to love your neighbor as yourself if you can't visit or associate with them (Leviticus 19:18). In Galatians 2, Peter was following this man-made law when he stopped associating with the Gentiles and went to eat with the Jews, and it was this group of Jews who were saying that Gentile had to obey their laws or traditions in order to become saved (Acts 15:1), so Peter's actions were essentially telling Gentiles that they weren't saved, which is why Paul rebuked him and immediately reiterated that we are saved by faith, not by Jewish works of law. It is true that Gentiles should not try to become Jews, but following Messiah's example is not only for the Jews. When we are grafted into Israel through faith in Messiah, then we should live according to the instructions that God gave to Israel. God's feasts are important shadows/rehearsals of what we will be doing during Messiah's reign and are extremely rich with teachings about him and God's plan of redemption, so they are not something that we should deprive ourselves of the joy of keeping.

 

[Soyeong]

Indeed. Except the Jews were not "cut" off from the parent stock; they were BROKEN off. There is a difference.(read the text closer next time)

It is the gentiles who were "cut" from the tree of destruction and grafted into the cultivated olive tree (Israel) Cut branches can be grafted in anywhere. Broken branches can be grafted back in ONLY from the exact point they were broken from.

And the WHY is listed in verse 11: " ... by their [Jews] transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous."

Are you making any traditional Jews jealous to have your relationship to their God?

Do you think any Jews are going to see our disobedience to the Mosaic law and become jealous?

 

[masmpg]

Again, then at what point are we justified? When we accept Jesus? Do you know anyone who stopped sinning after they accepted Jesus? The Bible says that is we claim to be without sin, then we are a liar and the truth is not in us. According to Romans 4:1-8, Abraham and David were justified by faith, but did they ever reach a point where they stopped sinning? I pointed out three different instances where Abraham was justified. I also pointed out that sanctification has past, present, and future aspects, so we have been sanctified, we are being sanctified, and we will be sanctified. If we become sinless the moment we accept Jesus, then the good work that God began in us is already completed and there is nothing left to complete on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). If we become perfectly obedient to God's law when we accept Jesus, then why do we need further training by grace to obey it? If everyone is at a different stage in their walk where we are not yet sinless, then are we not yet justified? If so, then when do we become justified?

You obviously are not reading my comments.

What you are referring to is once saved always saved.

You said "If we become sinless the moment we accept Jesus, then the good work that God began in us is already completed and there is nothing left to complete on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). If we become perfectly obedient to God's law when we accept Jesus, then why do we need further training by grace to obey it? If everyone is at a different stage in their walk where we are not yet sinless, then are we not yet justified? If so, then when do we become justified?" If we become sinless the moment we accept Jesus does that mean we know everything God has to give to us? Does that mean everything the Holy Spirit reproves us of has been revealed to us? NO! Accepting Jesus, becoming justified, sanctified, holy, righteous, sinless, all happens then. BUT sanctification is beginning. Please read my comments. This is very well explained over and over again, and you obviously are not reading them. Sanctification, which is the work of a life time is our walk of being reproved for the things God wants to reveal to us in every stage of our walk. We do not become all knowing when we accept Jesus. Did the thief on the cross know everything? Yet he was justified, sanctified, holy, righteous, and sinless when Jesus told him he will be in paradise. That goes for every Christian. ONLY the 144,000 will know everything God has to reveal to His children while on earth. Christians MUST be sanctified daily otherwise what if they die? Do you think that someone who believes and teaches that they will never stop sinning will be saved when they die? If we wait in idle expectancy on Jesus to perform something after we die we will be lost. This earth is our testing ground, if we do not overcome we will not receive the rewards Jesus promised the overcomer in revelation, 8 different times, and without those rewards we will not enter the kingdom.

 

[Dave-W]

Do you think any Jews are going to see our disobedience to the Mosaic law and become jealous?

Not one chance in a thousand. A few individuals here and there, maybe; but not as the group.

To get jealous, they need to have something that would look like the worship of God that they know. Eating pork, working on the Sabbath and ignoring the appointed times are just so much paganism to them.

Worship of Molech anyone? Baal? Ashtera? Ra? Zeus?

No??

If we are not enticed toward paganism, neither will they be.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you think any Jews are going to see our disobedience to the Mosaic law and become jealous?

just a footnote:
nowhere are believers lives (in churches) known by their neighbors(JEWS or gentiels) as Christian ! (except in name only).
the exceptions YHWH has called and chosen and set apart for HIMSELF
ARE noted by the neighbors(JEWS AND gentiels) , friends, family and co-workers,
and those seeing the changed lives (truthfully) are as a result being convicted even without a word and are being saved.

 

[masmpg]

Not one chance in a thousand. A few individuals here and there, maybe; but not as the group.

To get jealous, they need to have something that would look like the worship of God that they know. Eating pork, working on the Sabbath and ignoring the appointed times are just so much paganism to them.

Worship of Molech anyone? Baal? Ashtera? Ra? Zeus?

No??

If we are not enticed toward paganism, neither will they be.

No whole "groups" of believers will be saved. Small "groups" from all denominations are what make up God's church, or His people, including small groups of jews. There will be NO corporate repentance. Without corporate repentance there will be no corporate salvation. No whole denomination has cornered the market on salvation, neither has any nations, or tongues or peoples.

 

[1John2:4]

Thank you so much for that insightful and considered answer....
We call our selves, as you know, Adventists, SDA, Sabbath keepers or Remnant for the same reason... to show our distinctive views from mainstrem Christendom.

I use Yeshua because it means He is Salvation- I think that is really quite amazing- especially when you look at Joshua bringing Israel into the promised land, Joshua's (Yeshua) name was changed from Hosea to Joshua (Yeshua) when he was to lead them into the promised land. Our savior Yeshua (Jesus) is salvation he is saving us to the promise of life.

And Proverb 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!

 

[Dave-W]

No whole "groups" of believers will be saved. Small "groups" from all denominations are what make up God's church, or His people, including small groups of jews. There will be NO corporate repentance. Without corporate repentance there will be no corporate salvation.

Except there are several passages (including in Rom 11) to say that there WILL be corporate repentance and corporate salvation on the part of the Jews.

It is a protestant myth to say otherwise.

 

[masmpg]

Except there are several passages (including in Rom 11) to say that there WILL be corporate repentance and corporate salvation on the part of the Jews.

It is a protestant myth to say otherwise.

Galatians:3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." ALL Israel that will be "saved" are those that are grafted into the parent stock. Not all jews will be grafted back in. In fact I have been reading about what they are presuming to do in Israel. They have been teaching priests to carry out the old ceremonies and sacrifices again. To even consider these things as of God is borderline blasphemy. Jesus came as the final lamb. The final passover. The veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom when Jesus "gave up the ghost" signifying the end of the sacrificial service. Only those who are not grafted in, and those who said "His blood be on us and on our children" will be taking part in this new "temple service".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Amein and HalleluYAH unto YHWH FOREVER ! BLESSED BE HIS NAME !

An excerpt: http://www.prophecyupdate.com/what-is-the-future-of-israel.html

Let me try to provide you with a summary of Israel's future, presenting the events in chronological order.

Israel will soon experience a major war with her immediate neighbors, those with whom she has a common boundary, and she will win that war overwhelmingly. The whole Arab world will then turn to their natural ally, Russia, and appeal for help. The Russians will respond with a major invasion, together with many Muslim allies, and this great invasion army will be supernaturally destroyed by God on the mountains of Israel.

At that point, the Antichrist will emerge and guarantee the peace of Israel, enabling them to rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem. This treaty will also mark the beginning of the Tribulation, a seven-year period of unparalleled horror upon the earth during which one-half of the world's population will die and two-thirds of the Jews will be killed.

But, God will supernaturally preserve a Jewish remnant through this holocaust, and at the conclusion of it, the Jewish people will be brought to the end of themselves and will accept Yeshua — Jesus — as their Messiah, resulting in the salvation of a great remnant. They will cry out, "Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai," meaning, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

That remnant will then enter the Millennium in the flesh and will serve as the initial population of the state of Israel. Jesus will reign in Jerusalem as the King of kings and Lord of lords. David, in his glorified body, will reign as the king of Israel.

And to this Jewish remnant and their descendants, God will fulfill all the kingdom promises that He has made to Israel. The nation will serve as the prime nation of the world, and through it all God's blessings will flow to the other nations. This is why the Bible says in Zechariah 8:23 that in those days when ten Gentiles see a Jew walking by, they will grab his robe and say, "Let us go with you, for we know that God is with you!"

Except there are several passages (including in Rom 11) to say that there WILL be corporate repentance and corporate salvation on the part of the Jews.

It is a protestant myth to say otherwise.

 

[Dave-W]

Not all jews will be grafted back in.

Chapter and verse please.

In context, the "Israel" that Paul writes about in Romans 11 is an "enemy of the gospel." Those are NOT the people already grafted back in to their own tree.

In fact I have been reading about what they are presuming to do in Israel. They have been teaching priests to carry out the old ceremonies and sacrifices again.

That is true.

To even consider these things as of God is borderline blasphemy.

Maybe - and maybe not. Paul takes part in animal sacrifice in Acts 21. Early in Acts the entire Jerusalem congregation was in the Temple daily and it was mostly a place of animal sacrifice.

I don't think we have all the facts on that point to be able to say one way or the other.

 

[masmpg]

Chapter and verse please.

In context, the "Israel" that Paul writes about in Romans 11 is an "enemy of the gospel." Those are NOT the people already grafted back in to their own tree.

That is true.

Maybe - and maybe not. Paul takes part in animal sacrifice in Acts 21. Early in Acts the entire Jerusalem congregation was in the Temple daily and it was mostly a place of animal sacrifice.

I don't think we have all the facts on that point to be able to say one way or the other.

So what you are saying is that the "enemies of the gospel" will be saved? These enemies must be grafted back in, in order to be saved, don't you think? It is very obvious today that not all will be grafted in, neither will those who sacrifice a lamb in these days of knowing that Jesus was the final lamb.

The book of Hebrews is crystal clear that Jesus died once for all sins. No more shedding of blood needed.

I believe, but have no scripture to prove it, but the disciples observed the sacrificial services for a time because of tradition. But that did not last long.

Did you know that the catholic church sacrifices Jesus every sunday? Whenever the priest raises the "host", this is considered the sacrifice of the mass. That is why the worship the crucifix instead of an empty cross.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Amein and HalleluYAH unto YHWH FOREVER ! BLESSED BE HIS NAME !

An excerpt: http://www.prophecyupdate.com/what-is-the-future-of-israel.html

Let me try to provide you with a summary of Israel's future, presenting the events in chronological order.

Israel will soon experience a major war with her immediate neighbors, those with whom she has a common boundary, and she will win that war overwhelmingly. The whole Arab world will then turn to their natural ally, Russia, and appeal for help. The Russians will respond with a major invasion, together with many Muslim allies, and this great invasion army will be supernaturally destroyed by God on the mountains of Israel.

At that point, the Antichrist will emerge and guarantee the peace of Israel, enabling them to rebuild their Temple in Jerusalem. This treaty will also mark the beginning of the Tribulation, a seven-year period of unparalleled horror upon the earth during which one-half of the world's population will die and two-thirds of the Jews will be killed.

But, God will supernaturally preserve a Jewish remnant through this holocaust, and at the conclusion of it, the Jewish people will be brought to the end of themselves and will accept Yeshua — Jesus — as their Messiah, resulting in the salvation of a great remnant. They will cry out, "Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai," meaning, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord."

That remnant will then enter the Millennium in the flesh and will serve as the initial population of the state of Israel. Jesus will reign in Jerusalem as the King of kings and Lord of lords. David, in his glorified body, will reign as the king of Israel.

And to this Jewish remnant and their descendants, God will fulfill all the kingdom promises that He has made to Israel. The nation will serve as the prime nation of the world, and through it all God's blessings will flow to the other nations. This is why the Bible says in Zechariah 8:23 that in those days when ten Gentiles see a Jew walking by, they will grab his robe and say, "Let us go with you, for we know that God is with you!"

Can you quantify that with scripture please... otherwise it's an imaginative Evangelical movie plot.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

When people use the label of "Christian", it communicates certain things about who they are, such as that they are someone who observes Christmas and Easter, but doesn't observe God's holy days, or someone who worships on Sunday, but doesn't keep God's Sabbath, so there are many Messianics who believe that the Bible is true, but prefer not to call themselves "Christians" because it communicates incorrect things about what they believe or because of the reputation that Christians have earned (soyeong quote)
That's why I'm Sabbath keeper. When Jews and Muslims and just about everyone else in the world hears "Christian", they automatically vomit in their necks a little, AND ITS NO WONDER! Even Ghandi said "This Christ, I like, It's the Christians I have a problem with." We can thank a millennium of papal rule, ignorance and of course-selfishness for that. Most of the world's atrocities come from self-proclaimed Christians. Salvation is individual and it's daily. Dying to self and asking Jesus to be Lord, THEN actually allowing Him to. Y'all were talking about asking Messiah to dwell within us further back. That goes for the Holy Spirit too that the Father gives to those that ask Him.
To be legalistic ,or not to be. I know emphatically that there's another Jesus out there, the one that Paul talked about. The imposter. The new testament was written first to the Greeks and Jesus is the interpretation. I don't think I'm Greek, or Jew, so I use BOTH, Yeshua and Jesus, as well as when I get down on my face and pray to the Father. I address Him as Creator of the heavens and earth and all that are in it. I believe I followed, unknowingly, the wrong Jesus for many years. The one who answers to the pope. I bought into SOME of the futurism ca ca about AN anti-christ. When I got a little legalistic and truly sought, God showed me the commandments, the Sabbath, literally hundreds of prophetic truths and still continues to. I ask for ANY demonic oppression to be removed and sent back to its point of origin and for God to send His angels round about, all on a daily basis. Do I fear NOT covering the basics? I fear God and dare not go head to head with someone already condemned , who already decieved the WHOLE world alone without my hedge of protection. Do I believe without these truths that we be left as prey? Ask me what I think the seal of God is and I won't have to answer.
Isaiah 4:3-4-
And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. IT will be like that everywhere.
GOD is a consuming fire. Have I thought alot about using both of Christ's names? Sure I have. Did His friends call Him Yeshua? That and Master and Rabbi. If He was offended at me using both, He may not have done so many wonderful things for me, showing all the truths He did. Don't know. I know He still calls me on the carpet and still rebukes and guides me in truth. I think we ALL can be one slip away, one lie, one selfish deed if left undone. I pray HARD that He cleanses me from all unrighteousness every day because I know I don't deserve it and eternity is a very serious thing, be it long and wonderful, or POOF. Of that I AM CERTAIN. If satan is legalistic and lays claim to those who operate unaware, let's just say the picture of the crashed U-Haul truck convinced me to buy the extra insurance I may not have needed. Peace be with you.