Righteousness by Faith

[masmpg]

As I understand Acts 2:38, repentance and baptism related to sanctification, being the result of conversion (justification), I am of course not a Christian, but the Greek word "eis" means with regard to or related to, so repentance and baptism are sanctification, yes obedience is commanded, but not for salvation, it's commanded for sanctification. If Luke had wished to state: "repent and be baptised in order to be saved" then he would have used a different Greek word instead of "eis" I think it's "hina?" At Romans 4:5 the context is justification, and God justifies the UNgodly, not the godly!

Don't you think that in order to be "saved" we must be sanctified? We are told in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." In order to do the Lord's work we must be sanctified. In fact when we are justified we are sanctified at the same time. Justification ends but sanctification goes on until we either die or see Jesus coming to take us home.

In Romans 8:1 we read this awesome verse about the beginning of our sanctification and the end of justification.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." The "modern" translations completely remove the sanctification part of our Christian walk. After Paul explains the process every Christians goes through BEFORE conversion in Romans seven he ends the chapter being justified finally. Most want to make the Romans 7 experience a Christian experience, but it is not, until the last verse. The beginning of Romans 8 is when justification ends and the of the walk of sanctification of the "new man" begins for those who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.

 

[robert skynner]

Don't you think that in order to be "saved" we must be sanctified? We are told in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." In order to do the Lord's work we must be sanctified.

No, we are justified at the point of conversion / salvation. Whilst sanctification follows on after our salvation, as an ongoing act for the rest of our lives. So God only justifies the UNgodly, who are not working for their own salvation (Romans 4:5). After salvation, then we are to work, then we are to gradually be sanctified, and then our good works are to be demonstrated before our fellow man (James 2:14-21 etc).

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

After salvation, then we are to work, then we are to gradually be sanctified, and then our good works are to be demonstrated before our fellow man (James 2:14-21 etc).

Like keeping God's Commandments.

 

[robert skynner]

Like keeping God's Commandments.

Yes, God has two commandments for (new covenant) Christians, to love God and to love each other. The 613 laws about not eating pork or prawns, how far you can walk on the sabbath day etc have been abolished in Christ (Hebrews 7:18).

 

[masmpg]

No, we are justified at the point of conversion / salvation. Whilst sanctification follows on after our salvation, as an ongoing act for the rest of our lives. So God only justifies the UNgodly, who are not working for their own salvation (Romans 4:5). After salvation, then we are to work, then we are to gradually be sanctified, and then our good works are to be demonstrated before our fellow man (James 2:14-21 etc).

We are sanctifiED past tense when we are justified. As the Comforter teaches us new things and we follow that teaching, or conviction we are sanctified again from glory to glory, into the image of Jesus. Here is the most awesome verse which explains this. 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." To me this is so out of reach, but we have the privilege of owning it for ourselves as we live the righteousness of Christ in us. We are told in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." We must be sanctified, past tense, just to do the Lord's work. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime, but we are sanctified, past tense every step of the way, as we follow the convictions from the Comforter.

 

[robert skynner]

We are sanctifiED past tense when we are justified. As the Comforter teaches us new things and we follow that teaching, or conviction we are sanctified again from glory to glory, into the image of Jesus. Here is the most awesome verse which explains this. 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." To me this is so out of reach, but we have the privilege of owning it for ourselves as we live the righteousness of Christ in us. We are told in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work." We must be sanctified, past tense, just to do the Lord's work. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime, but we are sanctified, past tense every step of the way, as we follow the convictions from the Comforter.

Excuse me, I might be wrong, but I thought that in Christian theology, that sanctification followed on after justification.

A link to my Youtube Channel: Christian Comedy Channel

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Excuse me, I might be wrong, but I thought that in Christian theology, that sanctification followed on after justification.

Sanctification means to be made Holy... for a Holy purpose. After we are Justified through the blood of Christ we are then, in that moment, pure, cleansed, Holy and Righteous through the blood of Christ.

 

[robert skynner]

Sanctification means to be made Holy... for a Holy purpose. After we are Justified through the blood of Christ we are then, in that moment, pure, cleansed, Holy and Righteous through the blood of Christ.

So am I correct in assuming that in Christian Theology, justification is at conversion and is instant, being a legal (imputed) act, whilst sanctification is a life long event, which follows AFTER justification.

A link to my Youtube Channel: Christian Comedy Channel

 

[masmpg]

Why are you so interested in the bible anyway? Are you just here to show how much you know? My guess is that you were once a Christian, because you do have a knowledge of God's word, but you became a humanist? What is your story, because the bible does speak against studying, or even having company with unbelievers, so how do you fit in here?

 

[robert skynner]

What is your story, because the bible does speak against studying, or even having company with unbelievers, so how do you fit in here?

No, the Bible does not say do not have company with unbelievers, in fact Christ spoke to and attended the houses of unbelievers. As for my story, you can fiond out more about me on my YouTube Channel: Christian Comedy Channel.

Christian Comedy Channel

 

[masmpg]

2Th:3:14&15: "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."

2Jo:1:10&11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

M't:7:6: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

 

[robert skynner]

2Th:3:14&15: "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."

2Jo:1:10&11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

M't:7:6: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

2nd Thessalonians 3:14-15 isn't speaking about unbelievers and telling followers of Christ to completely ignore them, passages such as Matthew 28:19-20, commands Christians to preach to and evangelise the lost, so the context are believers who are inside the church but who then sin, forcing them to be disciplined and when they reject this discipline, they are kicked out of the local fellowships with people told to ignore them. Please confirm that you've ignored the context, you've simply copied and pasted three passages whose contexts you do not understand.

 

[robert skynner]

2Jo:1:10&11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

You have also ignored the context of this passage, which isn't talking about unbelievers in Christ, the context is clearly FALSE believers in Christ, who then come to local house fellowships to teach! Such people aren't unbelievers in Christ like Hindus and Secular Humanists, they are false believers who have a completely false view of either God, Christ or salvation (just like so many church folk today)! Let me illustrate, I went on an ALpha course at Plymouth Christian centre in 2012 and was told that Jesus is God the Father, and that Christ's atonement wasn't made on the cross, but in hell (to the devil). I wrote to the Alpha table leader and then to Liz, the head of the entire Alpha course; neither replied. I then wrote to the pastor (twice), but he (Reverend Lee) never replied, I then wrote to the head of the denomination (John Glass), who wrote a two line reply saying he'd investigate and then I never hard anything more. This Church is an Elim Pentecostal Church, and has a Trinitarian doctrinal Statement of Faith. Here is a video of me outside this church, asking congregants, on a Sunday morning as they leave church, why they teach at this church that Jesus is God the Father?

 

[masmpg]

You have also ignored the context of this passage, which isn't talking about unbelievers in Christ, the context is clearly FALSE believers in Christ, who then come to local house fellowships to teach! Such people aren't unbelievers in Christ like Hindus and Secular Humanists, they are false believers who have a completely false view of either God, Christ or salvation (just like so many church folk today)! Let me illustrate, I went on an ALpha course at Plymouth Christian centre in 2012 and was told that Jesus is God the Father, and that Christ's atonement wasn't made on the cross, but in hell (to the devil). I wrote to the Alpha table leader and then to Liz, the head of the entire Alpha course; neither replied. I then wrote to the pastor (twice), but he (Reverend Lee) never replied, I then wrote to the head of the denomination (John Glass), who wrote a two line reply saying he'd investigate and then I never hard anything more. This Church is an Elim Pentecostal Church, and has a Trinitarian doctrinal Statement of Faith. Here is a video of me outside this church, asking congregants, on a Sunday morning as they leave church, why they teach at this church that Jesus is God the Father?

This is what I am referring to. You profess to be a humanist yet you presume to teach Christianity. Your profession proves that you are an unbeliever. This is not an issue to me. I only deal with salvation issues, you can argue this all you want to but it only amounts to opinions which I try to stay away from.

Thank you for your insight.

 

[robert skynner]

This is what I am referring to. You profess to be a humanist yet you presume to teach Christianity. Your profession proves that you are an unbeliever. This is not an issue to me. I only deal with salvation issues, you can argue this all you want to but it only amounts to opinions which I try to stay away from.

Thank you for your insight.

Firstly there are as many different types of humanist, as there are christian!

 

[robert skynner]

Tithing is not a test of fellowship, you don't have to tithe to be a member of the SDA denomination.

Wow, you you are an SDA who is saying that the law of God is optional and we can choose to keep or not to keep it, God is fine with both! Well if you apply human choice, to God's law regarding tithing, why not apply the same rule to the Sabbath and to Sabbath keeping in the SDA? Either all of God's law applies today or none.

 

[robert skynner]

#2. I love the sabbath. I challenge you or anybody to show me from the bible where we are bound to keep SUNday holy, OR where the sabbath has become outlawed or banned in any way.

I am not a Christian, I don't go to any church buildings and I do not go anywhere on Sunday, so why are you asking me, a humanist to prove something which I don't believe, don't keep and do not practice. From my understanding of the Bible, the Sabbath isn't a day, it's fulfilled in Christ who said: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 12:28). The Sabbath was clearly identified as rest at Exodus 20, a day of rest, which finds its fulfillment in Christ in the new covenant, to rest in him (i.e. to trust or to believe) is the theme of the Bible. If you think that its all about going into a building on Saturday instead of Sunday, then your not personally resting in Christ are you, you are merely trying to earn a ticket to heaven through your own good works, which is the diametric opposite of RESTING in Christ which the 7th day sabbath rest of Exodus 20 foreshadowed. This sort of nonsense is why I personally have nothing do to with religion, most religion is a scam and somebody trying to pull one over you, read the Bible for yourself and avoid the priest, pastors and other professionals who sell religious hope for money!

 

[robert skynner]

This is what I am referring to. You profess to be a humanist yet you presume to teach Christianity. Your profession proves that you are an unbeliever. This is not an issue to me. I only deal with salvation issues, you can argue this all you want to but it only amounts to opinions which I try to stay away from.

Thank you for your insight.

I am not teaching anybody, I have just as much right to my opinion and my own religious or non-religious beliefs as anybody else and how dare you try to forbid me my right to my own opinions. Just as you have expressed your beliefs in this forum, so I too have just as much right to express my beliefs as well.