Righteousness by Faith

[Soyeong]

Here is a very important bible truth that those who say we will never stop sinning, which is the anti righteousness by faith message, completely overlook. As I was doing my devotion the other day the Lord revealed this awesome truth. I wasn't even studying about this.

We read in 1Timothy:1:9: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," What many believe and teach is that we will never stop sinning and that the law has nothing to do with their lives after they "accept Jesus as their Saviour". What this verse is saying is that the law was given for SINNERS. If we will never stop sinning we will always be under the law and not under grace. The law has nothing to do with the righteous person because they are not sinning, and they believe that IF they do ever sin again that Jesus will forgive all our unrighteousness IF we ask. I will take this a step further by saying that only those who are breaking a law are "under that law".

According to Galatians 5:16-23, everything that is listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with the law, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret verse 18 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is the law of sin that stirs up works of the flesh that are against the Spirit.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Likewise, it is not the Mosaic law, but the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 7, Paul said that God's law was holy, righteous, and good, that is was the good he sought to do and delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that was working within him to stir up sin and to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do. Grace is not opposed to the law, but rather as Titus 2:11-14 is stating, grace is what trains us to obey it. The law is not needed for the righteous person because they are already doing by faith what the law requires. For example, speed limits are not needed for those who would normally drive at safe speeds, but for those who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds to instruct them how to drive safely.

 

[masmpg]

According to Galatians 5:16-23, everything that is listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with the law, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret verse 18 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is the law of sin that stirs up works of the flesh that are against the Spirit.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Likewise, it is not the Mosaic law, but the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 7, Paul said that God's law was holy, righteous, and good, that is was the good he sought to do and delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that was working within him to stir up sin and to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do. Grace is not opposed to the law, but rather as Titus 2:11-14 is stating, grace is what trains us to obey it. The law is not needed for the righteous person because they are already doing by faith what the law requires. For example, speed limits are not needed for those who would normally drive at safe speeds, but for those who would otherwise drive at unsafe speeds to instruct them how to drive safely.

I somewhat agree with this, but the problem is that most of Christendom will admit, believe and even teach that they will never stop sinning. It is impossible to be a righteous sinner. You stated that the law is not for the righteous person, and Paul states the same thing in 1Timothy 1:9. We cannot sin and be considered righteous. The robe of Christ's righteousness will not cove any unconfessed sin in our lives. We MUST be overcomers through the blood of Jesus revealed at the cross. The lie that has most of Christendom deceived, which states that we will never stop sinning is not even found in the bible at all. In the bible we find forgiveness and victory over all sin in our lives and instead of arguing against this truth we must rejoice in the fact that righteousness by faith means that we are living Christ's righteousness in our lives through His grace and the power of the cross to overcome all sin in our lives.

1John:3:8: "He that committeth sin is of the devil;" How can we deceive ourselves into believing that we are of the devil, because we will never stop sinning, and Jesus is in our hearts by grace at the same time? This will never happen. In fact the next verse tells us 1John:3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." How can anybody keep telling themselves that they are sinning, but they are not sinning because somehow miraculously our sins are not really sins? These verses are very plain.

If you read all my comments on here you will have joy in your heart to realize that through Jesus we have victory over all sin, instead of believing that somehow when we sin it is not really a sin. We are only forgiven for our sins IF we ask for forgiveness, so if I sin today I am living under the law that condemns that sin and I must ask for forgiveness for that sin before I am accepted back into the fold. Like the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the prodigal son. Even though the lost sheep and the lost coin could not ask forgiveness, these show the joy and happiness the fold has for the returned. As the prodigal begged forgiveness and his father forgave him with no questions asked, but he did ask, in fact begged for forgiveness. So we must ask.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm not sure if you saw post #20 since you responded only to my second post.

I somewhat agree with this, but the problem is that most of Christendom will admit, believe and even teach that they will never stop sinning. It is impossible to be a righteous sinner. You stated that the law is not for the righteous person, and Paul states the same thing in 1Timothy 1:9. We cannot sin and be considered righteous. The robe of Christ's righteousness will not cove any unconfessed sin in our lives. We MUST be overcomers through the blood of Jesus revealed at the cross. The lie that has most of Christendom deceived, which states that we will never stop sinning is not even found in the bible at all. In the bible we find forgiveness and victory over all sin in our lives and instead of arguing against this truth we must rejoice in the fact that righteousness by faith means that we are living Christ's righteousness in our lives through His grace and the power of the cross to overcome all sin in our lives.

1John:3:8: "He that committeth sin is of the devil;" How can we deceive ourselves into believing that we are of the devil, because we will never stop sinning, and Jesus is in our hearts by grace at the same time? This will never happen. In fact the next verse tells us 1John:3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." How can anybody keep telling themselves that they are sinning, but they are not sinning because somehow miraculously our sins are not really sins? These verses are very plain.

If you read all my comments on here you will have joy in your heart to realize that through Jesus we have victory over all sin, instead of believing that somehow when we sin it is not really a sin. We are only forgiven for our sins IF we ask for forgiveness, so if I sin today I am living under the law that condemns that sin and I must ask for forgiveness for that sin before I am accepted back into the fold. Like the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the prodigal son. Even though the lost sheep and the lost coin could not ask forgiveness, these show the joy and happiness the fold has for the returned. As the prodigal begged forgiveness and his father forgave him with no questions asked, but he did ask, in fact begged for forgiveness. So we must ask.

1 John 3:8-9 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

I don't think these verses are talking about switching back and forth between being a child the devil and being a child of God every time we sin and ask for forgiveness, but rather they are talking about whether someone makes a practice of obedience and repentance they falter or whether someone practices unrepentant disobedience. According to 1 John 1:8, if we claim to be without sin, then the truth is not within us, so 1 John 3:8-9 needs to be interpreted in light of this verse.

So the issue becomes at what point do we become sinless? The Mosaic law was given to reveal to us what sin is, so our sanctification of being made to be perfectly sinless like Christ is process of being made to come in obedience to the law by being trained by grace to do what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good, and trained to renounce doing what is ungodly, sinful, and lawless (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, our salvation involves ongoing training by grace to overcome sin, so it is not something that is completed until he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). We have been given God's righteousness in order to train us to live according to it so that through obedience we might meet the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:3-4).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

so that through obedience we might meet the righteous requirement of the law

I think you have noted before we cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law,(not by obedience),
but only by trusting faith in Y'SHUA'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, Y'SHUA'S FAITHFULNESS, Y'SHUA'S SACRIFICE, Y'SHUA'S ATONEMENT,
Y'SHUA'S PURCHASING us by HIS BLOOD, cleansing us from all sin.

Obedience, yes, is necessary - required more than sacrifice,
but we are not obedient to meet the requirements of the law, which we cannot do,
but we are obedient because we are HIS CHILDREN,
which HE HAS GRANTED US TO BE BECOMING.

 

[masmpg]

I'm not sure if you saw post #20 since you responded only to my second post.

1 John 3:8-9 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

This is far from what the bible actually states. We can find a counterfeit translation to state anything we want it to state. I take the KJV bible over any translation because there has to be somewhere that the Holy Spirit works through instead of us trying to pick and choose a different translation because it fits our personal interpretation. 1 John 3:8 states "He that committeth sin is of the devil;"

I don't think these verses are talking about switching back and forth between being a child the devil and being a child of God every time we sin and ask for forgiveness, but rather they are talking about whether someone makes a practice of obedience and repentance they falter or whether someone practices unrepentant disobedience. According to 1 John 1:8, if we claim to be without sin, then the truth is not within us, so 1 John 3:8-9 needs to be interpreted in light of this verse.

You are right we are not suppose to go back and forth from sin and repentance like a yo yo. BUT the teaching that states that we will never stop sinning until Jesus comes is the cause of this assumption. When we become a Christian we are suppose to devote our life to Him, and not assume we will never stop sinning. Because we are told that we are to accept the righteousness of Christ in us by faith, when we honestly do this we will have victory over all sin. This is not saying that we will never sin again, but we will have the assurance of victory over all temptation through the grace displayed at the cross, and God does not close our probation because we sin once. He will always allow time for us to repent of all our sins as the Holy Spirit reveals them to us. My prayer has always been that God will show me any sins that will keep me out of heaven so I can confess them and repent of them. Many disregard past sins thinking that one confession is all that is needed to have forgiveness forever. In fact some denominations even teach this dangerous error, that all one has to do is call upon the Name of the Lord one time and all their sins past, present and future are forever forgiven. This teaching has all sorts of different directions that do not follow the bible.

No, according to 1 John 1:8&10 we are told that if we SAY we do not sin, or if we SAY we are without sin. Saying and claiming are two quite different acts. If we say we have no sin we are sinning because pride is the foundation of all sin. Again this is a counterfeit translation error which is leading many in the wrong direction. A true Christian will never say they are sinless, however even though Paul called himself, as I do, the chief of sinners, not because of daily sin, but because of the sins of our past. The closer we come to the perfect righteousness of Christ the more sinful we will look in our own eyes.

So the issue becomes at what point do we become sinless? The Mosaic law was given to reveal to us what sin is, so our sanctification of being made to be perfectly sinless like Christ is process of being made to come in obedience to the law by being trained by grace to do what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good, and trained to renounce doing what is ungodly, sinful, and lawless (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, our salvation involves ongoing training by grace to overcome sin, so it is not something that is completed until he who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). We have been given God's righteousness in order to train us to live according to it so that through obedience we might meet the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:3-4).

We become sinless when we are justified, truly justified. Not just professing something with our mouths, or saying we do not have to do anything and arguing that the law was done away with. That is not justified. Like I stated above about the man of Romans 7. That man was not justified until he finally cried out "oh wretched man that I am. . ." Then in the next verse he claims Jesus as his Lord and Saviour. Then in Romans 8:1 we are told where sanctification begins, but in the new "modern" translations, sanctification is slowly being deleted. If you read Romans 8:1 in your modern translation you will not find the whole verse. Here is what the KJV states
Romans:8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This last part, the most important part of that verse is missing from the counterfeit translations. I have studied with many people that have never even heard of sanctification because of this deletion. It is impossible to walk after the spirit and sin! because Paul goes on and explains in Romans:8:5-8: "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." This should be the life study of every Christian, because if we have this wrong we will be lost. If we think and live as if we will only be sinless when Jesus comes we will be lost. Think about it. Why would Jesus and all the new testament tell us as Christians to do all these things? Like this here in
1Corinthians:6:9&10: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." If we can be sinners, or unrighteous until Jesus comes then nobody will be saved, because we are told to be righteous now, in fact we are told that in order to do the Lord's work we must be sanctified, (be righteous) past tense in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Please study this out. You seem to be very close, and have many principles of the salvation doctrine on track, but we have to know by faith that Jesus is our everything, including victory. Revelation:21:7: "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." We must be overcomers today.

 

[masmpg]

I think you have noted before we cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law,(not by obedience),
but only by trusting faith in Y'SHUA'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, Y'SHUA'S FAITHFULNESS, Y'SHUA'S SACRIFICE, Y'SHUA'S ATONEMENT,
Y'SHUA'S PURCHASING us by HIS BLOOD, cleansing us from all sin.

Obedience, yes, is necessary - required more than sacrifice,
but we are not obedient to meet the requirements of the law, which we cannot do,
but we are obedient because we are HIS CHILDREN,
which HE HAS GRANTED US TO BE BECOMING.

Obedience is the fruit of grace, not the means to obtain it.

 

[Soyeong]

I think you have noted before we cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law,(not by obedience),
but only by trusting faith in Y'SHUA'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, Y'SHUA'S FAITHFULNESS, Y'SHUA'S SACRIFICE, Y'SHUA'S ATONEMENT,
Y'SHUA'S PURCHASING us by HIS BLOOD, cleansing us from all sin.

Obedience, yes, is necessary - required more than sacrifice,
but we are not obedient to meet the requirements of the law, which we cannot do,
but we are obedient because we are HIS CHILDREN,
which HE HAS GRANTED US TO BE BECOMING.

We cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law by obeying it through our own effort, but nothing is impossible with God, and through faith in Him we can be made to become obedient like Christ and meet the righteous requirement of the law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is not what HIS WORD says.
Without HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, simply, by faith,
we cannot ever meet the requirements of the law.
Yes, we can like the apostles and disciples be blameless, holy, and walking in union every day with Y'SHUA - we are supposed to do all this,
and like the apostles can "know nothing against ourselves" ,
but that is still a long long way from
being righteous enough to meet the demands of the law.

We cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law by obeying it through our own effort, but nothing is impossible with God, and through faith in Him we can be made to become obedient like Christ and meet the righteous requirement of the law.

 

[Soyeong]

We become sinless when we are justified, truly justified. Not just professing something with our mouths, or saying we do not have to do anything and arguing that the law was done away with. That is not justified. Like I stated above about the man of Romans 7. That man was not justified until he finally cried out "oh wretched man that I am. . ." Then in the next verse he claims Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.

Well, then at what point can we become truly justified? Hebrews 11 is listing examples of saving faith, so was Abraham truly justified when it says that by faith he obeyed when he was called to set out for a place that he was to receive as an inheritance, not knowing where he was going (Hebrews 11:8)? Was he truly justified when he offered his son Isaac (James 2:21)? Or was he truly justified when he believed God (Genesis 15:6)? The Bible does not treat justification as a static point, but rather salvation, redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification all have past, present, and future aspects. For example, we have been saved from the penalty of our sins (Ephesians 2:8), we are being saved from continuing to sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10).

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

Then in Romans 8:1 we are told where sanctification begins, but in the new "modern" translations, sanctification is slowly being deleted. If you read Romans 8:1 in your modern translation you will not find the whole verse. Here is what the KJV states
Romans:8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." This last part, the most important part of that verse is missing from the counterfeit translations. I have studied with many people that have never even heard of sanctification because of this deletion. It is impossible to walk after the spirit and sin! because Paul goes on and explains in Romans:8:5-8: "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The issue with Romans 8:1 is not that parts are being deleted, but that not all manuscripts contain that line. However, that is not the only spot the talks about sanctification or about how we should walk. Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who abide in Christ follow his commands and walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6). If you believe that Jesus was sinless, and that he preached what he practiced and practiced what he preached, then you should believe that his commands were the same as the Mosaic law which he walked out. It is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to the Mosaic law.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." This should be the life study of every Christian, because if we have this wrong we will be lost. If we think and live as if we will only be sinless when Jesus comes we will be lost. Think about it. Why would Jesus and all the new testament tell us as Christians to do all these things? Like this here in
1Corinthians:6:9&10: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." If we can be sinners, or unrighteous until Jesus comes then nobody will be saved, because we are told to be righteous now, in fact we are told that in order to do the Lord's work we must be sanctified, (be righteous) past tense in 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Again, I think you are failing to make the distinction between someone who is sinless, some who practices obedience and repentance, and someone who practices disobedience. Someone who lives as if we will only be sinless when Jesus comes is not necessarily someone who practices the things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, but can still be someone who practices obedience and repentance as they are being trained by grace to walk down the path towards becoming sinless. It is evident that no one is without sin and anyone who says that they are is sinning by lying, but that is not the same as saying that we are all sinners who practice sin because we can still be saints who practice righteousness and repentance.

Please study this out. You seem to be very close, and have many principles of the salvation doctrine on track, but we have to know by faith that Jesus is our everything, including victory. Revelation:21:7: "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." We must be overcomers today.

Amen.

 

[Soyeong]

This is not what HIS WORD says.
Without HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, simply, by faith,
we cannot ever meet the requirements of the law.
Yes, we can like the apostles and disciples be blameless, holy, and walking in union every day with Y'SHUA - we are supposed to do all this,
and like the apostles can "know nothing against ourselves" ,
but that is still a long long way from
being righteous enough to meet the demands of the law.

The righteous requirement of the law is obedience and without His righteousness simply by faith we cannot be made to be obedient to the law and meet its requirement. In Deuteronomy 10:13 and Deuteronomy 6:24, God said that what He commanded was for our own good, so the way to live by faith in God is to walk in obedience to His commands. Living by faith does not refer to some other manner of living that is not in obedience to God's commands. We are made new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works (Ephesians 2:10), so if having God's righteousness doesn't cause us to do what is righteous by faith in obedience to God's righteous laws, then we are nullifying its purpose and making it of no value to us.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I think you have noted before we cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law,(not by obedience),
but only by trusting faith in Y'SHUA'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, Y'SHUA'S FAITHFULNESS, Y'SHUA'S SACRIFICE, Y'SHUA'S ATONEMENT,
Y'SHUA'S PURCHASING us by HIS BLOOD, cleansing us from all sin.

Obedience, yes, is necessary - required more than sacrifice,
but we are not obedient to meet the requirements of the law, which we cannot do,
but we are obedient because we are HIS CHILDREN,
which HE HAS GRANTED US TO BE BECOMING.

Off topic....

Can I ask why you use the Hebrew name for Jesus when you are not a Hebrew? I am truly curious about this as I see Messianic's and other Protestants use it and I can't for the life of me figure out why? Thanx in advance.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

when you are not a Hebrew?

....
Really !?
Learn something new every day ! eh?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

....
Really !?
Learn something new every day ! eh?

Sorry, my mistake for assuming you weren't as most people that I know that use the name Yeshua aren't Hebrew.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That's still doesn't answer my question though... your first language is (I'm assuming again) English, right? I don't see you writing your responses in Hebrew so when you are using English why not use the name Jesus? Is there something offensive to you about the name Jesus?

Please don't think I'm trying to be glib... I just have never understood it and desire to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sorry, my mistake for assuming you weren't as most people that I know that use the name Yeshua aren't Hebrew.

That's still doesn't answer my question though... your first language is (I'm assuming again) English, right? I don't see you writing your responses in Hebrew so when you are using English why not use the name Jesus? Is there something offensive to you about the name Jesus?

Please don't think I'm trying to be glib... I just have never understood it and desire to.

YHWH may grant you the understanding (or perhaps already has?).
There
is
much that cannot ever be divulged on the internet.
Remember Corrie ten Booms warning to american churches around 30 years ago (all her visits to the usa, and her youtube interviews and testimonies, and her books). i.e. "The Hiding Place"...
Remember the Boxer Rebellion, the holocaust, and many many many other millions of atrocities by the communists and by rome all over the world( and today all over the internet).
Remember Foxes Book of Martyrs.
Remember Voice of the Martyrs.
Remember "Tortured for Christ".
This is
all very very real, very current, very true, and all completely in line with SCRIPTURE/ HARMONY with ALL OF YHWH'S WORD.

 

[Soyeong]

Off topic....

Can I ask why you use the Hebrew name for Jesus when you are not a Hebrew? I am truly curious about this as I see Messianic's and other Protestants use it and I can't for the life of me figure out why? Thanx in advance.

When people use the label of "Christian", it communicates certain things about who they are, such as that they are someone who observes Christmas and Easter, but doesn't observe God's holy days, or someone who worships on Sunday, but doesn't keep God's Sabbath, so there are many Messianics who believe that the Bible is true, but prefer not to call themselves "Christians" because it communicates incorrect things about what they believe or because of the reputation that Christians have earned with regard to their treatment of Jews. Using the Hebrew names of the people in the Bible emphasizes their Jewishness and communicates that they interpret the Bible with an emphasis placed on its Jewish cultural context. There are many who treat Jesus as if he were a white European instead of a Middle Eastern Jew. Some people are not even aware that Jesus was Jewish and I have a friend who went to seminary who said that if he had been told that Jesus was Jewish, then it would have completely changed his outlook on the Bible.

There are also verses in the Bible that talk about calling on the name of the Lord, so some figure that they should use the name that he went by when calling upon it. However, God still answers the prayers of the people who use the name "Jesus". Some like to argue about whether his name was Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahushua, or some other variant, but I think in the Bible a person's name was more more about who they were and what their reputation was than about what they were referred to as. I would recommend going through a study on the meaning of the names of people in the Bible because that was an important dynamic. Some Jews follow a tradition where they don't want to say God's name because then they won't ever risk accidentally taking God's name in vain, but I think that again misses the point because someone can bring honor to God's name or take God's name in vain without ever saying it. Someone who uses the name "Jesus", but who has a good understanding of who God is and what His reputations is has a better understanding of God's name than someone who refers to Him in the right way, but doesn't have good understanding of who God is and what His reputation is.

 

[Dave-W]

According to Galatians 5:16-23, everything that is listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with the law, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret verse 18 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is the law of sin that stirs up works of the flesh that are against the Spirit.

Good point.

IMO a part of the problem is linguistic. In Koine Greek there is no separate word for legalism. Nomos IMO was a poor choice by the LXX translators for "Torah" and in the NT nomos is used both for Torah (teaching) or "law," and the concept of legalism.

So it is absolutely true that we are not under "legalism;" but it is equally NOT true that we are to ignore the Torah (teaching) of God.

I would say it is legalism that stirs up the works of the flesh.

 

[masmpg]

We cannot meet the righteous requirement of the law by obeying it through our own effort, but nothing is impossible with God, and through faith in Him we can be made to become obedient like Christ and meet the righteous requirement of the law.

You are right we cannot meet the righteous requirements of the law on our own merits. It is Jesus merits that we are to claim as ours by faith.

This all happens when we are justified, not in the future. To say that some day we will arrive at a place called sanctified is not what the bible states. Righteousness by faith, which is the title of this thread means that immediately after we receive Christ into our hearts we are living His righteousness by faith, and have all His power, to not only be cleansed from all unrighteousness when we confess our sins, but to have victory over every temptation by looking to the cross when we are tempted. I am certain you have done this many times in yous Christian walk. When we call out to God for deliverance from temptation His unconditional promise is "ask and ye shall receive", He will give us victory, but our faith must grasp that act as if it has happened or it never will. The hard part of salvation is faith. Does your faith actually know? or is it just a form of belief? I have to keep telling myself this, and encouraging myself to know by faith, not just believe.

This doctrine of salvation is the most corrupted doctrine of all. Satan knew what doctrinal points to pervert so professed Christians would know just enough to argue against the truth. He wants us to have 99% of the truth, but that 1%, which is righteousness by faith is very misunderstood.

Here is a wonderful verse that explains very well what sanctification is. Paul writes in 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." "from glory to glory" are the steps that every Christian takes. These are completed steps. It is like advancing in school, when we complete one course we advance to the next. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime, but we are sanctified every step, from glory to glory. If this were not so then why are we told that we must be sanctified in order to do the Lord's work? Everyone is at a different stage of their walk.

As far as counterfeit translations go, I used them for a while until the Lord showed me that if verses are being deleted from His word what good is it? The new "updated" NIV of 2011 has deleted 17 verses from the NT. The words righteousness in any form has been deleted, along with sanctification, justification, sanctuary, and many more. This is not done ignorantly. In Revelation:12:15: we read, "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood." This flood is how satan has watered down the word of God to deceive if possible the very elect. Satan uses everything in his arsenal, and has a great advantage over God in the battle against good and evil because he has no limitations, God will only draw, or as we are told "stand at the door and knock" whereas satan breaks the door down.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This sounds (without further explanation)
a lot like the "bless me" crowd = "name it and claim it"
which is not available to ecclesia born again ones immersed in Y'SHUA living HIS LIFE.
YHWH FREELY GIVES Righteousness, Peace, and Joy ongoing, fully, without measure hand-in-hand with Healing and Salvation.
All these and more
without having to "claim these"....
Rather to REJOICE WITH THANKSGIVING like the
lame man who went singing and dancing for SHEER JOY !
and the man blind from birth
who COULD SEE NOW _ AND DID NOT EVEN KNOW HOW !
(they weren't healed nor saved by "claiming it").

It is Jesus merits that we are to claim as ours by faith.

 

[Soyeong]

You are right we cannot meet the righteous requirements of the law on our own merits. It is Jesus merits that we are to claim as ours by faith.

This all happens when we are justified, not in the future. To say that some day we will arrive at a place called sanctified is not what the bible states. Righteousness by faith, which is the title of this thread means that immediately after we receive Christ into our hearts we are living His righteousness by faith, and have all His power, to not only be cleansed from all unrighteousness when we confess our sins, but to have victory over every temptation by looking to the cross when we are tempted. I am certain you have done this many times in yous Christian walk. When we call out to God for deliverance from temptation His unconditional promise is "ask and ye shall receive", He will give us victory, but our faith must grasp that act as if it has happened or it never will. The hard part of salvation is faith. Does your faith actually know? or is it just a form of belief? I have to keep telling myself this, and encouraging myself to know by faith, not just believe.

This doctrine of salvation is the most corrupted doctrine of all. Satan knew what doctrinal points to pervert so professed Christians would know just enough to argue against the truth. He wants us to have 99% of the truth, but that 1%, which is righteousness by faith is very misunderstood.

Here is a wonderful verse that explains very well what sanctification is. Paul writes in 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." "from glory to glory" are the steps that every Christian takes. These are completed steps. It is like advancing in school, when we complete one course we advance to the next. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime, but we are sanctified every step, from glory to glory. If this were not so then why are we told that we must be sanctified in order to do the Lord's work? Everyone is at a different stage of their walk.

As far as counterfeit translations go, I used them for a while until the Lord showed me that if verses are being deleted from His word what good is it? The new "updated" NIV of 2011 has deleted 17 verses from the NT. The words righteousness in any form has been deleted, along with sanctification, justification, sanctuary, and many more. This is not done ignorantly. In Revelation:12:15: we read, "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood." This flood is how satan has watered down the word of God to deceive if possible the very elect. Satan uses everything in his arsenal, and has a great advantage over God in the battle against good and evil because he has no limitations, God will only draw, or as we are told "stand at the door and knock" whereas satan breaks the door down.

Again, then at what point are we justified? When we accept Jesus? Do you know anyone who stopped sinning after they accepted Jesus? The Bible says that is we claim to be without sin, then we are a liar and the truth is not in us. According to Romans 4:1-8, Abraham and David were justified by faith, but did they ever reach a point where they stopped sinning? I pointed out three different instances where Abraham was justified. I also pointed out that sanctification has past, present, and future aspects, so we have been sanctified, we are being sanctified, and we will be sanctified. If we become sinless the moment we accept Jesus, then the good work that God began in us is already completed and there is nothing left to complete on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). If we become perfectly obedient to God's law when we accept Jesus, then why do we need further training by grace to obey it? If everyone is at a different stage in their walk where we are not yet sinless, then are we not yet justified? If so, then when do we become justified?