Right v Left - would this sum up the difference?

[Neogaia777]

Do you believe life on planet Earth is better off with Amazon and Microsoft, or without them? Keep in mind; the invention of the Automobile resulted in Job loss and harm to some small business as well.

Everything always seems to be making us better, or better off at the start, etc, but is it truly in the end, etc...?

When Jesus comes back and transforms this earth into a paradise, do you think it will be through mechanism or technology, or will we go back to a kind of simpler life and form of existence, but that will still be a paradise, and/or but where people will never ever be or become slaves to anything ever, etc...?

Cause I tend to think that what are conveniences or advancements in the short term only turn out to enslave us later on, etc, unless something changes or is done about it, and done about it pretty drastically at this point, of course...

We've almost set up mechanism and technology, and advancements of our own fallen genius, as our God's, etc...

It is certainly not treating or doing the earth very well though...

And it is the earth that truly supports us, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

I already told told you the true blame lies with all of us, myself included, and what's been in each one of our own individual hearts since the fall of man, etc...

No; I’m not talking about typical wrongs of lusting after another man’s wife, or driving too fast in a school zone, I’m talking about the specific crime of taking from the poor to become rich. In post #31 you accused them (and all other rich people) of becoming rich at the expense of many many poor. If you have no proof they did this, or will ever do this; it would be wrong for you to point the finger at them accusing them of something they did not do; don’t cha think?

And I never ever once used the word "crime", etc...

I used the word crime because IMO to become rich at the expense of the poor IS a crime.

 

[Neogaia777]

No; I’m not talking about typical wrongs of lusting after another man’s wife, or driving too fast in a school zone, I’m talking about the specific crime of taking from the poor to become rich. In post #31 you accused them (and all other rich people) of becoming rich at the expense of many many poor. If you have no proof they did this, or will ever do this; it would be wrong for you to point the finger at them accusing them of something they did not do; don’t cha think?

I also said whether they were aware of that fact or not, etc...

Which I do not know whether or not that wipes the "crime" (yes, now I'm using that word because you did and I'm trying to keep within your context, etc) Anyway, which I do not know whether or not that wipes the "crime" of it out of them, etc...

Told you we'd find out in the end...

And that I thought the "blame of it" lied with either all of us, or none of us, etc, etc, etc, and a bunch of other stuff I've already said, etc...

I used the word crime because IMO to become rich at the expense of the poor IS a crime.

Well, and now I just used it, feel better...?

God Bless!

 

[SimplyMe]

We've been doing the left-right turns at power for how long (?) and have you seen any real changes under either that match their rhetoric?

Of course, it is worth pointing out that is somewhat how the system is designed. Even when one party controls the Presidency and Congress, the "opposition" still has the filibuster in the Senate to stop much of what the majority wants to do. There is a reason why the minority party is typically called "obstructionist."

The poor stay poor under democrat control. Government grows bigger under repubs. Beginning to think it really is a scam. So ask yourself, why does liberal California have one of the country's biggest homelessness problems?

There are a few reasons for California's homelessness issue. The first is it is where people "choose" to be homeless. If you were chronically homeless, where would you choose to be homeless -- in some place with a climate that typically doesn't get horribly hot (where you might die of heat stroke) or terribly cold (where you might freeze to death) or in some other place in the US? Some homeless have been known to "save" enough to get a bus ticket to California, or use it when they sell the last of their possessions. There have even been instances of cities that actually buy the bus tickets to California as an attempt to "solve" the homelessness issue in their city. More recently, it has gotten better -- the bus programs now require they know someone that is supposed to help them get housing and work at their new location.

Next, there is the fact that California -- because of the number of people who want to live there and have moved there over the last several decades -- has become extremely expensive. Demand, as you have with a free market, has made housing prices grow exponentially. And, if someone loses their job and has issues finding a new one, they frequently can no longer afford any type of housing.

There is obviously more and some of it does involve government issues. And, oddly, some of the government issues can even be traced back to "Conservatives" -- Prop. 13. This proposition limited the amount that California could charge in property taxes, limiting assessments at the 1976 values, and then restricting the increase in property taxes to 2% per year. With inflation at an average of 3.43% since 1978, that 2% increase rate means that property taxes revenues haven't been able to keep up with inflation.

Or liberty-loving (supposedly) repub POTUS endorse things like Patriot Act or NDAA?

And this is explained by the Republicans being the "law and order" party. As a general rule, as we've seen various times on this forum (particularly when the Patriot Act was passed), many Republicans argued that if you only had to fear it if you were doing something wrong. And in many ways, this is an issue that Republicans use to get votes -- such as Trump's use of the riots in cities (as limited as the rioting has been in most cities) to tell people they need to vote for him.

 

[Ken-1122]

Everything always seems to be making us better, or better off at the start, etc, but is it truly in the end, etc...?

I believe as long as Humans exist, we will always fight to make things better.

When Jesus comes back and transforms this earth into a paradise, do you think it will be through mechanism or technology, or will we go back to a kind of simpler life and form of existence, but that will still be a paradise

I believe what separates humans from animals is our desire to want to improve. Animals are content with being cared for; as long as they have enough food and plenty of water they are in paradise. This will never work for humans, we need a challenge; we have a desire to learn from our forefathers and add to the knowledge they gave us, then to teach our young all that we know so they can add to the knowledge we gave them. I don’t believe humans can be happy if there were no challenges or struggles in life. Struggle makes you stronger, Strength makes you grow; and without growth mankind can’t truly be happy. To take away our ability to improve our conditions will make us bored, and never satisfied.

 

[Ken-1122]

I also said whether they were aware of that fact or not, etc...

But how can you call the crime a fact if you can’t even articulate a scenario of which they may have committed it?

Told you we'd find out in the end...

If we find out in the end, shouldn’t you reserve judgment till the end?

And that I thought the "blame of it" lied with either all of us, or none of us, etc, etc, etc, and a bunch of other stuff I've already said, etc...

So now each of us is getting rich at the expense of the poor? But not everybody is rich! How can this blame be within each of us?

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe as long as Humans exist, we will always fight to make things better.

I believe what separates humans from animals is our desire to want to improve. Animals are content with being cared for; as long as they have enough food and plenty of water they are in paradise. This will never work for humans, we need a challenge; we have a desire to learn from our forefathers and add to the knowledge they gave us, then to teach our young all that we know so they can add to the knowledge we gave them. I don’t believe humans can be happy if there were no challenges or struggles in life. Struggle makes you stronger, Strength makes you grow; and without growth mankind can’t truly be happy. To take away our ability to improve our conditions will make us bored, and never satisfied.

I personally look forward to a day, when we will cease from fighting or struggling, especially unnecessary struggling or fighting, that is described as "struggling or fighting or beating at, or is a struggling against the wind", etc, and that it is all man's own pride and ego and "vanity", etc, which most of that is just mostly for most of us just struggling to just survive anyway, and how does that make us any different from animals, or at least animals in a fallen world anyway, and I think our areas of improvement, will be in personally getting to know God, and know God as our God, and not anything of our own selves or our own making, etc, and that He will guide and teach us on how to truly improve or grow and mature or develop and be "better", etc, and I do not think it will have to come at the expense of destroying or ruinating the earth, etc...

And we will have a heck of whole lot more "time for that", etc, true development and true improvement, etc....

And without the all things that weigh us down that keep us from that, or truly doing that, etc...

Which reminds of another verse from the book of Job, where God says "He will put to ruin those ruinating the earth", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

But how can you call the crime a fact if you can’t even articulate a scenario of which they may have committed it?

What do you want...?

I have given you the whole world since the fall of man, and all of history up to now, that I don't think has changed, as a "scenario", etc...?

If we find out in the end, shouldn’t you reserve judgment till the end?

I thought I had, or was or did...?

But just in case I did not, I will just say that I am not yet perfect either yet in this area yet sometimes either, etc, and never claimed to be, as I'm sure I will, and know I most certainly do "mess up" sometimes, etc, in the area of judgments anyway sometimes maybe, etc...

I will act out of emotion sometimes just like everyone else, etc, vent sometimes about who I may be mad at, or frustrated or upset with at the time sometimes, etc, but I think I am improving, etc...

So now each of us is getting rich at the expense of the poor? But not everybody is rich! How can this blame be within each of us?

Are you even reading my posts...?

Other people, the way our systems are built, etc, are only a direct reflection of what is within us all, etc...

Post #17

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

When I finally win that war within, or fully conquer the struggle within, I'll let you know, OK, but for now, I'm doing my best, which is I think the best that any of us can do right now, etc, I just sometimes get tired of people seeming to put their heads in the sand, and seeming to be just sweeping the dirt under the rug, and seeming to being refusing to even acknowledge the problems that we all have and share, and not even seem like they are even trying sometimes, etc...

Makes me feel defeated sometimes, etc, and sometimes that can come out negatively, etc, and for that I do apologize, etc, OK...

God Bless!

 

[Rachel20]

Of course, it is worth pointing out that is somewhat how the system is designed. Even when one party controls the Presidency and Congress, the "opposition" still has the filibuster in the Senate to stop much of what the majority wants to do. There is a reason why the minority party is typically called "obstructionist."

I would still expect some progress, even if in a two-steps-forward-one-step-backward sort of way. So a stalemate system by design? Every four years, we have the same surface issues (abortion, the poor, etc...), but the parties don't talk about the things they fundamentally agree on (new world order, domination by the banking system, war in the ME). You may recognize Griffin in this, he did impact my politics.

There are a few reasons for California's homelessness issue...

Thoughtful list of causes, but I was inquiring more about the fix, since the OP considers the left the party that cares about people.

As a general rule, as we've seen various times on this forum (particularly when the Patriot Act was passed), many Republicans argued that if you only had to fear it if you were doing something wrong.

I recall Obama saying the same thing, though I can't remember the reference. But these things do tend to come from the right. I guess any excuse for giving up your rights is going to come off absurd to me.

 

[Sparagmos]

We've been doing the left-right turns at power for how long (?) and have you seen any real changes under either that match their rhetoric? The poor stay poor under democrat control. Government grows bigger under repubs. Beginning to think it really is a scam. So ask yourself, why does liberal California have one of the country's biggest homelessness problems? Or liberty-loving (supposedly) repub POTUS endorse things like Patriot Act or NDAA?

Our country is center - right so we haven’t been able to see the effects of a more leftist system. For examples of that we’d have to look to other countries.

 

[Sparagmos]

Yes. I can't think of a single example of a billionaire who got rich by taking from the poor.

Jeff Bezos. There are legal ways of “taking” from the poor. The profit Bezos makes off the backs of his workers is disgusting.

Landlords profit from exploiting the poor also. Wal-mart...

 

[Ken-1122]

Jeff Bezos. There are legal ways of “taking” from the poor. The profit Bezos makes off the backs of his workers is disgusting.

Why is it disgusting? Please explain.

Landlords profit from exploiting the poor also.

All landlords? Or just a few.

Wal-mart...

Walmart allows the homeless to camp out in their parking lots over night in their automobiles. I’ve had homeless people tell me this alone has done more to help the homeless than anything anyone else has done. So how does Walmart take from the poor? By giving them a job when nobody else would hire them? By giving them an opportunity when nobody else would give them a chance? Please explain how Walmart takes from the poor.

 

[Ken-1122]

.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Enough of what?

Mammon

 

[Bobber]

Cause I tend to think that what are conveniences or advancements in the short term only turn out to enslave us later on, etc, unless something changes or is done about it, and done about it pretty drastically at this point, of course...

Always thought this is true of the Iphone. Oh I have one and use it never however like others do....always having this stupid thing in their hands at social gatherings has taken people away from being civilized.

Changed the words of a Christmas song a few years back,

"I'm Dreaming Of A Non-Cell Phone Christmas"

"I'm dreaming of a Non-Cell Phone Christmas,
Just like the ones I used to know,
Where people talked to one another,
Sister and Brothers,
And all..... would.... be showing they cared about what the others would say. "

 

[Tom 1]

OTOH, if we look at Europe, I think it would show some amount of truth to your idea. In Europe, governments seemed more involved in trying to help their population -- having lots of holidays, mandating businesses provide generous vacation days, and ensuring that workers can/do take their vacation days), ensuring everyone has health care, etc.

This also reflects a different life philosophy, more stop to smell the roses than work and consume.

 

[Fantine]

Do you believe life on planet Earth is better off with Amazon and Microsoft, or without them? Keep in mind; the invention of the Automobile resulted in Job loss and harm to some small business as well.

I think, as I said, that they are a mixed bag when it comes to risk v.s. benefits.
Our country should be anti-monopoly, and Amazon is definitely a monopoly in the U.S. If they try to acquire any more businesses they should probably be blocked.
There is some global competititon to Amazon. China has two huge companies, Alibaba and JD.com, that have similar business models. They both operate globally, although Amazon is present in more countries. Alibaba was founded four years after Amazon.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Of course that's the claim but there's a thousand ways to rebuttal this.

And I have yet to hear one of the thousand that convinces me the claim is wrong.

Some of them have warped values not applying caring about people when it comes to the unborn? No offence AJ but what sort of statement is that?

Offense is most definitely taken because you left out the first sentence of that paragraph which puts these words you quoted in context. I started by saying "On the left, they care more about putting people first." What you're quoting is my explanation of why I say they care "more" and not "completely" about putting people first. I'm not making a blanket statement because there are those on the left who do care about stopping most abortions, even if we are minority. It's no different from what I said about "most" people on the right being for what they're for. But you clearly, intentionally omitted that part of what I said to give the other sentence a different spin. So offense is greatly taken and even more so because you actually said "no offense" which makes it clear to me that you understood it was offensive enough that you had to make such a disclaimer.

Not caring about the UNBORN is IN their platform....THEIR PLATFORM. When one chooses by an act of their will to join with them and sign on to their platform why should such an individual not think they've become an abortionist themselves? I think people can seek to whitewash this as much as they like but one's vote for them is a force which enables.

"The Left" doesn't have a platform. Just as the right doesn't have a platform. Democratic party, Republican party, Green party, Libertarian party ,etc. all have platforms but "the left" and "the right" do not.

If a vote for a certain party or candidate "is a force which enables" then those voting for candidates who run on platforms of worshiping idols (i.e. America, the flag) and exploiting the poor, sick, needy, etc. and literally killing Christians are just as guilty as anyone who votes for a candidate who runs on the platform incuding abortion rights. Go ahead and admit your guilt to that and I'll take your accusation seriously; otherwise, it sounds like just a convenient issue for you to take a stand to criticize.

The overall caring for people you say. Might I suggest God can take care of the overall caring of people especially when you want to balance it off with what maybe you should consider is murder.

Might I suggest God can take care of the unborn? He does it every day - thousands of babies born every day whom God has seen through their term into birth. Are you saying God is incapable of taking care of the unborn and we must all put every other issue aside and create man-made laws against abortion?

And I don't believe abortion is murder, and I'm sure you do not either, and I'm sure that almost all anti-anortion folks do not truly consider it "murder".

Do you really consider it such AJ? It seems you put abortion in such a kind, soft way....as putting it down as well just not caring about people as they should. Do you as a Christian not label it with the M word...YES or NO?

I already said I don't consider abortion to be murder; I consider some abortions to be akin to murder but I definitely do not consider any and all abortions to be murder. Do you REALLY consider any and all abortion to be murder? Be honest in your answer; I honestly don't think you really do and it's just rhetoric you've learned from the "pro-life[sic]" agenda's propaganda.

The only way it seems that I put abortion in a warm, soft way i is by your misquoting me (out of context) and spinning it and applying those words "warm and soft" here. Highly offensive and much offense is indeed taken by me because I'm sure you know just what you're doing and it's your plan to misrepresent and deceive.

And no, as a Christian I do NOT label abortion as "murder" just as I don't label killing as "murder" (and neither do you).

With all due respect I think you do have a good heart in wanting to see people's social economic situations improved. I think you fail to see the wrong however of wealth confiscation from people who didn't earn it and making them surrender it by force.

You're right, I do fail to see what you call "wealth confiscation" as wrong. For one thing, I do not see taxation as "wealth confiscation" which is another way of calling taxation "stealing". I believe in God's Word which states clearly in Romans 13 that taxation is owed to the earthly governmental authority that is God's minister of authority and justice over us and has an absolute right to collect taxes from us in order to pay for that service. I believe they do have the right to use the force which God has given them the authority to have.

I also believe that "wealth" is not equal to "money" because God's Word clearly teaches me this. I am told by God directly that earthly material possessions and money are temporary and have no real value. I am instructed to lay up my treasures in heaven and not on earth. I am told to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and THEN all other things are ADDED to that. I am told explicitly that God cares for us and will meet our needs, even if He doesn't always meet our fleshly wants, so I should take no worry for material "wealth".

Are we reading the same Bible? Do you see these instructions? Where are you seeing in God's Word anything about accumulating financial wealth as a way to serve God? Where are you finding anything in God's Word that says a government collecting taxes is some form of theft?? I'm not seeing any of that in God's Word, I'm seeing more of the opposite.

How wealthy was Jesus? Did he have a house? Was it a big nice house or a small, cheap, shack? When asked about paying taxes, where did Jesus say "For the confiscation of thy wealth by Caesar is tyranny and of the Devil, do not allow Caesar to take thy coins but yea, rise up with they sword and rebel against the tyranny of forced wealth confiscation"???

You fail to appreciate as well that if you had less taxation people have more money to bless the poor themselves and have them do so out of a willing heart.

Because of the system that God has put us under in the USA, we can have a voice and input as to the amount and structure of taxation and I have no problem with that. It is perfectly appropriate to support a candidate, party, ideology, etc. that calls for taxing people in a different way, be it more or less, or taxing these people or those people, etc. But in the end if taxation is not recognized as something authorized by God which Christians are commanded to respect and obey with a cheerful heart as a way to serve the Lord then I have a huge problem with that. And that's the huge problem I have with today's political right, with all their rhetoric of taxation being "forced confiscation" and "theft" and "tyranny". From God's Word I directly know that such rhetoric is completely against God.

You speak of what your Holy Spirit convection is. Mine is somewhat different than yours. One of us therefore must be mistaken and good people can make mistakes. The question is which one has. True humility would be to say I'll never give up seeking to get the right feel from the Spirit. No condemnation but God am I missing something. Something we all need to pray. God Bless.

I'm glad you show here a spirit of wanting to be humble and seek Truth. Yes, one of us must be mistaken. Perhaps (and most likely) we each are mistaken to some extent and have yet to learn more. What I do know, however, is that my conscience, the Holy Spirit, guides me and that this guidance is then reinforced by reading God's Word which is Perfect and Holy. Many people have a conscience of some sort but if and when it doesn't align with God's Word then it must be called into question.

I do not make an idol of the flag. I do not make an idol of my country. I do not make an idol of mammon. I do not throw up my hands and say "God can take care of people!" and give up on always trying to do what's best for people because God has shown me in His Word that my life as a Christian is to SERVE all other people, as Christ did, as a big part of evangelizing.

I work for a major Wall St. investment bank. I have investments in equities, funds, real estate, etc. I make a living helping my company create wealth. I understand very well the world of finance, financial wealth, investment, profits, etc. and I myself profit from it. But I am well aware this is not my own doing - it is God who gives me everything. My job of over a decade with this firm can be gone tomorrow, literally. My accumulated financial wealth, investments, etc. can be gone in a blink of an eye, especially if I lost my job. My health insurance could be gone also which in turn can ruin me financially, driving me into bankruptcy to pay medical costs (and that can even happy WITH the insurance). Al lthose things are under God's control, in the end. Why should I want to keep a fellow person from getting quality health care which we have abundanly in this nation so that I can save a few dollars today?

Those dollars aren't mine anyway - they are the LORD's.

Do you believe your financial and material wealth is your own? Do you believe you must guard it because it's yours? Is that where your fear of losing financial and material wealth stems from? Do you believe you even actually have the ability to guard your own financial/material wealth?

Or do you recognize wealth as truly being non-material? Do you worry little about material things because your treasures are in heaven? Do you serve others and sacrifice for others because your reward is in doing the Lord's Work? Or do you prefer to just worry about keeping what is "yours"?

I think you and the right have a fundamentally different perspective which is based on materialism and mammon. Yes, good people and Christians can be mistaken. I just see that as a massive mistake when people put mammon over the lives of their fellow man, in light of what the Bible clearly teaches us.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The Right cares about money and the Left about people?

Maybe we can say The Economy and The disenfranchised.

But I think also we can say holding on to the status quo and change.

Return t a golden era and moving forward into a hopeful future.