Right v Left - would this sum up the difference?

[Neogaia777]

Enough of what?

Exactly...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

And another problem is, is if you run into those who are satisfied or are content with what they have, it will eventually be taken by those who, probably already have much more, but are not satisfied or content with what they have, etc...

To the detriment, and eventual extreme poverty, of us all, etc...

"Of us all", etc, eventually, etc...

God Bless!

Can you give an example of this actually happening?

 

[Neogaia777]

Enough of what?

Probably another thing that needs to be defined, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

Exactly...

God Bless!

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[Neogaia777]

Can you give an example of this actually happening?

Well, if you can't see it now, then just take a look at history, etc...

As it says in the book of Job, "man will dominate man to his injury" or the eventual "hurt" or "harm" or extreme detriment/poverty of us all, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Therein lies part of the problem...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

Well, if you can't see it now, then just take a look at history, etc...

History is full of examples of the people becoming rich by taking from the poor; I'm talking about in today's society

Therein lies part of the problem…

Naaw; the problem is you make an incoherent claim and refuse to clarify or explain what you mean.

 

[Neogaia777]

History is full of examples of the people becoming rich by taking from the poor; I'm talking about in today's society

What, and you think that's changed...?

Naaw; the problem is you make an incoherent claim and refuse to clarify or explain what you mean.

I mean that, if you can't even see the problem, which is very much wider and broader than just the rich taking from the poor, etc, then how can you even think to even begin to think of, being part of the solution(s), or a solution, to those problems, etc...?

That's why I said "Therein lies part of the problem", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Fantine]

In their tax policy, Republicans invest in the rich, in oil companies, in brokerage firms, etc. through huge tax breaks. Although trickle down economics has never actually happened (fool Republicans once, shame on the rich; fool them twice, shame on the Republicans; fool them three, four, five, six times--no one should vote for them) they pretend it will.

Democrats invest in people. If they give the middle class tax breaks, they will spend it in the economy, thereby creating jobs. If they invest in preschool, scholarships and affordable student loans, free junior college, etc. the people who benefit will earn higher salaries, buy homes, and pay higher taxes. In addition, an educated populace attracts companies and good jobs.

If they invest in roads and bridges, jobs will be created, people will be safer, and products and goods will flow more smoothly from one state to another.

Because a strong middle class is the biggest force for consumer demand, a strong middle class is the best way to create jobs--and make the rich richer.

 

[Ken-1122]

What, and you think that's changed...?

Yes. I can't think of a single example of a billionaire who got rich by taking from the poor.

I mean that, if you can't even see the problem, which is very much wider and broader than just the rich taking from the poor, etc, then how can you even think to even begin to think of, being part of the solution(s), or a solution, to those problems, etc...?

That's why I said "Therein lies part of the problem", etc...

God Bless!

All I asked was for you to articulate what you see as the problem. For some reason you are refusing to do that.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yes. I can't think of a single example of a billionaire who got rich by taking from the poor.

I guarantee you, anyone who is now rich or got rich, whether knowingly, or whether even they themselves know it or not, it came at the expense of many very many poor, it just the way the system is and is designed, etc, and the way all systems have been since the fall of man, etc, they all feed on themselves, or the poor, etc, and the more runaway insatiable unchecked greed there is, the quicker it is or happens or goes, etc...

Now some of them give a lot back, and I think that's great, but it will never be enough to offset the way the systems are designed, etc...

Blame whomever you want, but the facts are just a direct reflection of the majority of what is in most human hearts, etc...

And I'm just saying it is really, really bad in America, etc...

Someone, usually many someones, always "pays" for just a few individuals getting rich, the true cost of someone having the American Dream, is very, very many someone else's not being able to have that dream, or is even very much worse than that for them sometimes, etc...

And those "numbers", over the course of time, is always, "always" less and less individuals being able to have or share in that dream, and a very much more growing more not being able to have that dream, and have that dream ever, over the course of time, etc, both now and throughout history, and none of that has ever changed yet ever, etc...

But the worse the greed/selfishness is, and the more that are deceived by it/this, and fail to see and/or acknowledge this problem, etc, the quicker it happens or goes, until the rug gets pulled out from underneath us all, etc, and the system collapses or crashes, etc...

It is inevitable, etc...

The best we can do is slow it down, but in America at least, it only seems to speeding up, etc, with people even becoming much more selfish and deceived, etc...

All I asked was for you to articulate what you see as the problem. For some reason you are refusing to do that.

I think the Bible in the book of Job articulates it best when it just simply says "man will/does/always will (until the return of Christ) dominate man to his injury", etc...

And if you are not understanding that, or what I just said above, then I don't know what to tell you or say to you, etc...

You can put a lot of words in there where "dominate" is used though, if you use your imagination, and put your mind to it, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

I guarantee you, anyone who is now rich or got rich, whether knowingly, or whether even they themselves know it or not, it came at the expense of many very many poor, it just the way the system is and is designed, etc, and the way all systems have been since the fall of man,

Okay; let's take the 2 richest men in the world; Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. Bezos wealth came from starting Amazon, Gates wealth came from starting Microsoft. How does the existence of those two companies hurt the poor?

 

[WonbyOneanddone]

The Right cares about money and the Left about people?


By 'Left' I don't mean all Democrats, but the true Left.

The difference would be seen if for example a pandemic disease hit the planet and the Right Wing countries would keep people at their jobs to protect the economy and take a wait-and-see approach to how dangerous the disease turns out to be, risking people rather than money.

And in a more Right Wing country the low-paid being very close to insolvent, would agree with that approach.

A more to the Left country would close more down in case it was a dangerous disease rather than use expendable 'human canaries'.

Wait......wut?

So when you close down a business indefinitely because of a virus, how do they put food on the table to feed their family? Currently Nancy Pelosi is holding up government money to give to people because of economic hardship, presumably until after the election for obvious reasons. Yea, Nancy really cares doesn't she.

One thing that is overlooked here is the impact of unemployment on the welfare of society. For every 1% of unemployment, the death rate increases some 50,000 people due to such things as drug abuse, suicide, heart attacks, etc. But these things are never talked about by the press because a pandemic has been politicized. That means with an increase of unemployment of say 10%, which is a conservative number if you lock down indefinitely, you could have half a million dead.

If people don't want to risk leaving their homes, fine. Let them hide in their basement if they have the economic independence to do so, but to tell people they can't leave their homes is oppressive and abusive and uncaring, especially when they feel they need to do so.

When I see Bill Gates arrogantly preach to people about staying in their basement, knowing he never has to leave his if he does not want to due to his economic affluence, it just makes my blood boil.

 

[Fantine]

It's a mixed bag. Amazon sells many items more affordably, although many poor people don't have bank accounts or credit/debit cards. They may not have internet access or a permanent address. Nevertheless, it has lowered prices for many.

On the other hand, Amazon has harmed thousands of small businesses and even larger bricks and mortar businesses. This has created job losses. Amazon's heavily automated operations do not require anywhere near the personnel a bricks and mortar business does. Their employment policies have been criticized by labor groups.

Microsoft has made computer use accessible for everyday people by its Windows operating system. Command driven software was wonky and complicated--menu driven software has made computer use ubiquitous. That was a great benefit, but it also resulted in job losses, as every technological improvement eventually does.

To his credit, Bill and Melinda Gates have dedicated most of their vast fortune and personal dedication to improving the lives of desperately poor people in the third world. Yes, there are whiners who say, "they give birth control to women in the third world," as if that completely negates their dedication and self-sacrifice. I completely disagree--and I feel certain God does, too.

 

[Neogaia777]

Okay; let's take the 2 richest men in the world; Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates. Bezos wealth came from starting Amazon, Gates wealth came from starting Microsoft. How does the existence of those two companies hurt the poor?

I can only tell you that they most certainly will, given a long enough timeline, if they are not there already, etc...

The true cost of their riches will always become apparent in time, etc....

There riches were made within the system, and it is the system itself, or the systems (plural) themselves, that become the the major problem in time, etc...

It will eventually get to a point where they will not be able to give enough back to make up for it all ever in time, etc...

They are also becoming monopolies, which will in time, prevent many up and coming minorities from coming up there, and even more of them over time, etc...

And who will eventually be reduced to slaves of them, unless something is done about it before then or before that time, etc...

It is inevitable, etc...

The only thing that ever changes those inevitabilities, is some kind of major disruption, or chaos, or something happening to at least some of them that redistributes some of that wealth, etc, then it happens again, until another inevitable chaotic or semi-cataclysmic disruption again, etc...

Same old story over and over again, etc...

And like I said earlier, the worse the greed/selfishness, etc, and the more people not being satisfied with what they have, etc, the more people deceived by the "dream", etc, and the more people not giving some or enough of that back, etc, the quicker this happens or comes on or takes place or happens/becomes, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Ken-1122]

I can only tell you that they most certainly will, given a long enough timeline, if they are not there already, etc...

The true cost of their riches will always become apparent in time, etc....

So you are accusing them of a crime they have not yet committed, and you have no proof that they will ever commit such a crime. You just say; sometime in the future they will do this, or they will do that so that justifies you pointing a finger at them today. Don’t you think that is unfair? Would you like someone to do that to you? Supposed someone said you will commit a crime because you are “X”? (X being short, tall, black, white, rich, poor, male, female, etc. etc.) Didn’t your Jesus instruct that you should do unto others as you would have them to do unto you? Something to think about.

 

[Bobber]

On the left, they care more about putting people first.

Of course that's the claim but there's a thousand ways to rebuttal this.

Some of them have warped values in not applying that to the unborn and some of them care more about themselves as opposed to people in general, but most of them seem to care about people in general over money.

Some of them have warped values not applying caring about people when it comes to the unborn? No offence AJ but what sort of statement is that? Not caring about the UNBORN is IN their platform....THEIR PLATFORM. When one chooses by an act of their will to join with them and sign on to their platform why should such an individual not think they've become an abortionist themselves? I think people can seek to whitewash this as much as they like but one's vote for them is a force which enables.

As a Christian, my values align much more with the overall caring for people and my values are almost directly opposed to putting importance on money, especially over lives.

The overall caring for people you say. Might I suggest God can take care of the overall caring of people especially when you want to balance it off with what maybe you should consider is murder. Do you really consider it such AJ? It seems you put abortion in such a kind, soft way....as putting it down as well just not caring about people as they should. Do you as a Christian not label it with the M word...YES or NO?

I couldn't be a conservative in today's political landscape and serve the Lord at the same time - my conscience (the Holy Spirit) would never let me.

With all due respect I think you do have a good heart in wanting to see people's social economic situations improved. I think you fail to see the wrong however of wealth confiscation from people who didn't earn it and making them surrender it by force. You fail to appreciate as well that if you had less taxation people have more money to bless the poor themselves and have them do so out of a willing heart. You speak of what your Holy Spirit convection is. Mine is somewhat different than yours. One of us therefore must be mistaken and good people can make mistakes. The question is which one has. True humility would be to say I'll never give up seeking to get the right feel from the Spirit. No condemnation but God am I missing something. Something we all need to pray. God Bless.

 

[Ken-1122]

It's a mixed bag. Amazon sells many items more affordably, although many poor people don't have bank accounts or credit/debit cards. They may not have internet access or a permanent address. Nevertheless, it has lowered prices for many.

On the other hand, Amazon has harmed thousands of small businesses and even larger bricks and mortar businesses. This has created job losses. Amazon's heavily automated operations do not require anywhere near the personnel a bricks and mortar business does. Their employment policies have been criticized by labor groups.

Microsoft has made computer use accessible for everyday people by its Windows operating system. Command driven software was wonky and complicated--menu driven software has made computer use ubiquitous. That was a great benefit, but it also resulted in job losses, as every technological improvement eventually does.

Do you believe life on planet Earth is better off with Amazon and Microsoft, or without them? Keep in mind; the invention of the Automobile resulted in Job loss and harm to some small business as well.

 

[Neogaia777]

So you are accusing them of a crime they have not yet committed, and you have no proof that they will ever commit such a crime. You just say; sometime in the future they will do this, or they will do that so that justifies you pointing a finger at them today. Don’t you think that is unfair? Would you like someone to do that to you? Supposed someone said you will commit a crime because you are “X”? (X being short, tall, black, white, rich, poor, male, female, etc. etc.) Didn’t your Jesus instruct that you should do unto others as you would have them to do unto you? Something to think about.

I already told told you the true blame lies with all of us, myself included, and what's been in each one of our own individual hearts since the fall of man, etc...

And I never ever once used the word "crime", etc...

And I told you to blame whomever and whatever you will, etc, and then explained that, etc, or at least tried to, etc...

Or, on the other hand, maybe the blame lies with none of us, guess we'll find out in the end, but that still does not change the inevitable or inescapable conclusions or cycles or facts or "ends", etc...

Can we change it...? Cause that is the question, etc...? But just don't refuse to even acknowledge the problem, now that you know it and have seen it, etc, and just be just as selfish and as greedy as you want to be like all or most of the rest while you bury your head in the sand without even trying, etc, cause this is what many refuse to even acknowledge, let alone see, etc...

If you truly want to at least try to be part of the solution and not the problem, etc...

Well find out who's to blame in the end, but for now, let's all just at least try to do something about the problem for now, OK...?

God Bless!

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

In light of the pandemic, since that seems to be the slant of this thread, I would say the Right cares more about freedom, personal choices, and acting in a rational manner,

The right doesn't care about other peoples freedom or rights. This virus should have been gone.

while the Left cares more about mass hysteria, panic, and acting like a nanny state.

This isn't true at all. The president down paying COVID-19 caused panic. Not the left. If the rights, democrats or all people cared, they would follow reasonable guide lines. Wearing mask , social distancing, trying to stay home and hand cleaning. But some wont , because the president down played and set a bad example. The right want there freedom over something stupid. And don't care about people, they can give COVID-19.I paid attention to how China and the rest of the world reacted and realized it was worse, than the right or left made it sound. Trump admitted to down playing the virus. people need to wake up and protect them selves.