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The Time Gap between Dan.9:26 and 27
My previous installment concluded the textual examination of Daniel 9:24-27. However, there are still other issues to deal with in relation to the passage and the postponement of the seventieth week from the first sixty-nine. These final articles will deal will a few concluding issues.
Critics of a Time Gap
Those who do not think that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 have a literal and chronologically precise fulfillment are opposed to the postponement of the seventieth week as a yet future time of seven years. Examples of such criticism can be found by those within the Reconstructionist movement, holding to a form of preterist postmillennialism. Gary DeMar complains:
Fellow preterist, Dr. Ken Gentry echoes DeMar’s refrain in the following:
Dr. Gentry is right about one thing, that the Daniel 9 passage is the only Messianic prophecy that specifically deal with chronology or the time element. While I believe that I have shown that the passage itself requires a chronological postponement between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years, it is also supported by other Messianic passages which are not specifically time oriented, but clearly do refer to distinct time-periods: Christ’s first coming and his second coming.
If anyone believes in the two comings of Christ, and both DeMar and Gentry do, then they also believe in a gap of time between the first and second coming of Christ. I want to show how this fits into a clear biblical pattern that in turn lends support to the notion of a gap of time in Daniel 9:24-27.
Two phases of Christ's career
It is obvious from the Bible that if you view the ministry or career of Christ in its entirety, then it is composed of two parts or phases. The first phase encompasses the first coming of Jesus two thousand years ago, while the second phase will consist of His second coming some time in the future. Yet many Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah commingled their descriptions of both phases of Christ into a single passage, without distinguishing between the two comings or phases of His earthly career.
It is commonly understood today that the Jews of the first century did not understand that these Old Testament prophecies spoke of a single Messiah who would come twice—once in humiliation, then again in glorious exaltation. We have learned that many Jews of Christ’s day thought that there would be two different Messiahs—Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. Messiah ben Joseph would be one who suffers and dies, but is immediately followed by Messiah ben David, who reigns in glory. The reality of Scripture is that there is but one Messiah—Jesus of Nazareth—who comes twice. This means that there is a gap of time between the two comings.
Even though preterists like DeMar and Gentry belittle a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel 9:24-27, they are driven to believe in a gap of time between the two comings. DeMar and Gentry even believe in a gap, so far, of almost 2,000 years. Yet this time-gap is not explicitly stated in Scripture. So how can DeMar and Gentry hold to something like a gap of time that not explicitly stated in Scripture? Because the only possible implication that can be deduced from the facts of Christ’s two comings is that there is a time-gap between the two events. In like manner, such a time-gap must also follow from the fact that Christ has a career that is two-phased.
Why is this important to our study of the seventy weeks of Daniel? It is important, because as Gentry noted above, "An overriding concern of the prophecy, in distinction to all other Messianic prophecies is that it is specifically designed to be a measuring time-frame." True, so true, Dr. Gentry. Yet, you believe in a gap of time between the two comings of Christ, even though it is not specifically stated in the Bible. In the same way, I would argue that all other Messianic passages that speak of the two aspects or phases of the career of Messiah also must imply that they are fulfilled at the two comings of Christ, . . . with a gap of time in between. This means that there are many similar passages that speak in a single statement of items that encompass both phases of Christ’s career—the first and second advents. However, as Dr. Gentry has noted, only the Daniel 9:24-27 passage deals specifically with measuring time. This explains why the Daniel passage is the only Messianic text that deals specifically with a time frame. However, a significant number of other Messianic passages have something in common with the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27. They all speak of components of Christ’s career that will take place in the two phases of His two advents. Only the Daniel text speaks of time factors.
Two-Phased Messianic Passages
This means that it is legitimate to argue for a gap of time from the other Messianic passages that also include, in a single passage, the two elements of Christ’s career. Dr. Randall Price makes note of the way Scripture uses time gaps and provides a list of passages that fit into this category in the following statement:
Perhaps the most well-known example of the kind of prophecy about which I speak is found in Christ’s reading of Isaiah 61:1-2 as recorded in Luke 4:16-30. The passage reads as follows:
Tim LaHaye and I have a chart diagramming this passage in our new book called Charting the End Times. We say concerning this passage:
Another example of what some have called "double reference" is found in Zechariah 9:9-10. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum says concerning double reference:
In the same context we see that verse nine refers to Christ’s first coming:
Verse ten is a reference only to Christ’s second coming as follows:
In the Zechariah passage, there has to be a gap of time between the fulfillment of the verse nine that relates to Messiah’s first coming two thousand years ago, and His second advent, which is still a yet future event. Even though no time factor is explicitly stated in the text, because of the specific nature of the events described in the two verses, a gap of time is required to coordinate the fulfillment of this prophecy with the events of history.
Conclusion
The point that I am making in this article, relating to the seventy weeks of Daniel prophecy, is that it is not unreasonable to find implied time gaps in a significant number of Messianic passages in the Old Testament. I am not saying that this proves that there is in fact a gap in Daniel 9:24-27, I believe that I have demonstrated that in the earlier installments in this series. I think that this article demonstrates that it is not unreasonable to expect a Messianic passage that requires a time-gap between the fulfillment of all events prophesied in that passage. This supports our literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. Maranatha!
By Thomas Ice, PhD
Quasar92
False and wrong - heretical teachingsDr. Kelly Varner on the literal fulfillment of the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27.
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Dr. Kelly Varner on the literal fulfillment of the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27.
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Marv No place in Revelation 20:1-6 does it show a kingdom on this earth with "Mortal Humans Present" as you believe and teach.
The scripture presented represents the Lord's spiritual realm of eternity, no time.
Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% the Lord's spiritual realm of no literal time.
There is no kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present as you claim.
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
What do you think Rev.20:6 means, if Jesus is not going to reign with the tribulation martyrs on earth for 1,000 years? [Plus many others!] Jesus is going to build a fourth temple in Jerusalem. What do you think the tribulation martyrs are going to be made priests of God for? There are many Scriptures supporting Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth. Do you think He is going to reign without any subjects? Review Rev.19:11-21 as n example in Rev. The following is one in Isa, that refute the views you propagate:
Isa.65:19 "For I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reacha a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
Quasar92
For some strange reason you left out the context of the passage.
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
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Your posting of Isaiah 65 is the same "Eternal Kingdom" as seen in Revelation 21:1-4 below.What do you think Rev.20:6 means, if Jesus is not going to reign with the tribulation martyrs on earth for 1,000 years? [Plus many others!] Jesus is going to build a fourth temple in Jerusalem. What do you think the tribulation martyrs are going to be made priests of God for? There are many Scriptures supporting Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth. Do you think He is going to reign without any subjects? Review Rev.19:11-21 as n example in Rev. The following is one in Isa, that refute the views you propagate:
Isa.65:19 "For I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reacha a hundred
will be considered accursed.
21They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22No longer will they build houses and others live in them,
or plant and others eat.
For as the days of a tree,
so will be the days of my people;
my chosen ones will long enjoy
the work of their hands.
23They will not labor in vain,
nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune;
for they will be a people blessed by the Lord,
they and their descendants with them.
24Before they call I will answer;
while they are still speaking I will hear.
25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
and dust will be the serpent’s food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,”
Quasar92
So given your illogical thinking, one should not do research in order to ascertain the the character of persons who have since died?? That is utterly ridiculous! If I didn't know who Hitler was then I'd have to do research wouldn't I?My reference to gossip pertains to the denigration of others, destroying their reputation and character, whether they are guilty or not. Especially when they are not here to defend themselves. Jesus once said, "let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone," at a woman they had accused of adultery.
Research has nothing to do with it. Capiche?!
Quasar92
Did Jesus ever state that he will come back TWICE? Show me where. Otherwise you claim something that Jesus never said.The following is the Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church that refute your denial of it:
Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church
The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!
The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:
1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.
2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.
3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.
Quasar02
Did Jesus ever state that he will come back TWICE? Show me where. Otherwise you claim something that Jesus never said.
We both agree that Jesus will come back as a thief. Did Jesus say he will come back as a thief at the rapture before the tribulation as you erroneously believe? Let's allow Jesus to speak for himself.
“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. Rev 16:15-16.
The rapture occurs just before the battle of Armageddon which occurs at the end of the tribulation - not before.
Your posting of Isaiah 65 is the same "Eternal Kingdom" as seen in Revelation 21:1-4 below.
"The New Heaven And Earth"
Isaiah 65:17-19KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Revelation 21:1-4KJV
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
So given your illogical thinking, one should not do research in order to ascertain the the character of persons who have since died?? That is utterly ridiculous! If I didn't know who Hitler was then I'd have to do research wouldn't I?
Did Jesus ever state that he will come back TWICE? Show me where. Otherwise you claim something that Jesus never said.
We both agree that Jesus will come back as a thief. Did Jesus say he will come back as a thief at the rapture before the tribulation as you erroneously believe? Let's allow Jesus to speak for himself.
“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed. Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. Rev 16:15-16.
The rapture occurs just before the battle of Armageddon which occurs at the end of the tribulation - not before.
So given your illogical thinking, one should not do research in order to ascertain the the character of persons who have since died?? That is utterly ridiculous! If I didn't know who Hitler was then I'd have to do research wouldn't I?
FYI the subject is eschatology. The rapture is a prominent subject in eschatological debate. The Scofield Bible made the rapture a popular teaching and belief in America. Scofield's lack of integrity and unchristian character is well-documented and not "gossip" as you claim. If you believe it is gossip and not historical fact, feel free to supply evidence otherwise!Given the subject of the thread under discussion, a person was brought up not related to the thread subject at all, for the purpose of denigrating his character, contributing nothing whatever to the subject of the thread. As Jesus said, "Judge not, let you be judged." And "Let he who has sinned not, cast the first stone." For such gossip begin in a thread of other issues, it needs to be deleted. Start a separate thread for such trash, if it's that important to such people. There's nothing ridiculous about such procedure. How much of such research should be done on Peter and Paul, to denigrate the works they have contributed for us?
Quasar02
You conveniently avoided explaining how Jesus stated that he will come back for the church as a thief at the rapture which occurs just before Armageddon and not before the tribulation according to Rev 16:15-16. Please reconcile this passage with your view which holds to the opposite of what Jesus himself instructed.Jesus said He was coming back for those of us who belong to Him, and to take us where we can be with Him, in John 14:1-4 and 28. He said He was coming back in great glory, in Matthew 24:30, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Rev.19:15, WITH HIS CHURCH.
Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church
The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!
The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:
1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.
2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.
3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.
Quasar92
Where does it state "plainly and outright" that God will keep his followers out of the GT? Just because there are different harvests, it does not necessitate there will also be more than one harvest of the saints. That is just inference at best.There is more than one harvest of saints just as there is more than one harvest of grapes during the harvest season - Jesus stated plainly and outright that He would keep His follower's out of the GT - this has been shown multiple times in multiple threads - you may not agree with it .. but not agreeing with Jesus does not mean you are correct , there is a harvest before the GT - a harvest before the worst of Gods wrath - the most accurate understanding of this did not originate in western world America as the view that you have did , study Gods Holy days and you will learn the matter in full - not just in part
Luke 21Where does it state "plainly and outright" that God will keep his followers out of the GT? Just because there are different harvests, it does not necessitate there will also be more than one harvest of the saints. That is just inference at best.
I said it that way specifically to see if you knew , - there are way too many people -especially on forums who 'profess' they know things that they do not know - they criticize people when they them self have not studied the Word of God - they are some pew warmers who go to church and are totally dependent on what a preacher says and believes everything a preacher says simply because they are a preacher -this is why Jesus says don't allow your self to be deceived--Study Gods Word and learn what Jesus says then compare it to what preachers say.Where does it state "plainly and outright" that God will keep his followers out of the GT? Just because there are different harvests, it does not necessitate there will also be more than one harvest of the saints. That is just inference at best.
Did Jesus ever state that he will come back TWICE? Show me where. Otherwise you claim something that Jesus never said.
FYI the subject is eschatology. The rapture is a prominent subject in eschatological debate. The Scofield Bible made the rapture a popular teaching and belief in America. Scofield's lack of integrity and unchristian character is well-documented and not "gossip" as you claim. If you believe it is gossip and not historical fact, feel free to supply evidence otherwise!
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