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Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    Yes of course I will. That's the clear teaching of the book which the Lord gave us to show us what will happen in the future.

    If I'm somehow wrong when it all comes out in the wash - I certainly won't be responsible for what you say I will.

    You're playing games now. What we are doing is not equivalent as anyone with the Spirit of God can see.

    For you to be so cavalier with what you are doing as to say that my teaching what it says in plain language is equal sin with your rejecting what it says is beyond the pale.

    And some kind of witty comeback that I know will likely come my way - won't change what you know is the case - assuming the Holy Spirit is really indwelling and teaching you.

    You can have the last word if you feel you must. I'm quite sure it will only serve to show others your flippant attitude when it comes to the Word of God's warnings.

    I won't provide a format for your sin any longer. I don't want to be in any way responsible for any curse you may incur.

    You will have to do it without my help.:wave:
     
  2. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv will you continue to teach a temporary 1000 year earthly kingdom at the return of Jesus Christ?

    That same book comes with a warning to those who falsely "ADD" a literal 1000 year kingdom on this earth, that isn't found in Revelation 20:1-6

    Revelation 22:18-19KJV
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he taught below, you have been clearly shown Marv.

    There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for final judgment.

    Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

    "ETERNITY BEGINS"!

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You refuse to deal with the New Covenant scripture, and then call down the curse on those who disagree with your man-made doctrine...

    .
     
  4. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I don't refuse to deal with them. I have thought through the New Covenant scriptures many times.

    The new covenant scriptures can fit very well with a 1000 year reign of the Lord following His 2nd physical coming to earth. There's plenty of ways you can teach about them and not reject Christ's 1000 year reign.

    If I were you I would revisit the new covenant idea including with it the clear teaching in Revelation concerning the 1000 year reign.

    I just refuse to enter into a debate about them with you about it because it will give you another chance to sin by deleting the teaching concerning the 1000 year reign found in the book of Revelation.

    I don't "call down" a curse on anyone. I merely remind you about the seriousness of what you are doing by taking away the teaching about the 1000 year reign which follows the 2nd physical coming of the Lord which is clearly taught in the revelation to God's bond servants through John.

    I'm just the messenger here.

    If you don't take serious the teaching concerning the curse on those who do what you do - I'm not responsible. I've done my duty.

    As with Truth7t7 - you can have the last words. Weigh them carefully. A lot hangs in the balance.
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You can believe that Christ will be conducting funeral services for dead mortals during a period of 1,000 years after His return.
    However, you will not find it in the Bible.

    In 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 the Apostle Paul said that Christ returns "in flaming fire".

    Peter was looking for the present earth to be burned up on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13.
    I am looking for the same thing.


    .
     
  6. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can stop calling the prophetic Scriptural facts I post "errors," that you clearly do not understand! Review the following facts for your edification:

    70 Weeks prophecy in Daniel of 490 years was based on the reasons for their 70 year exile to Babylon

    To the second coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ!

    The following is the prophetic history in the destiny of Israel.

    In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans-in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. So I gave my attention to the Lord God to seek Him by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes (Dan. 9:1-3).

    Dr. Leon Wood explains this matter as follows:

    Since Daniel was thinking in terms of the seventy-year captivity, as a Hebrew, could have easily moved from the idea of one week of years to seventy weeks of years. This follows because, according to 2 Chronicles 36:21, the people had been punished by this Exile so that their land might enjoy the sabbath rests which had not been observed in their prior history (cf. Lev. 26:33-35, Jer. 34:12-22). Knowing this, Daniel would have recognized that the seventy years of the Exile represented seventy sevens of years in which these violations had transpired; and he would have understood Gabriel to be saying, simply, that another period, similar in length to that which had made the Exile necessary, was coming in the experienced of the people.

    However, there is clear evidence why the 70th week of Daniel is yet future and, thus, the necessity of a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week. Just as Gary DeMar and others who do not think that Daniel 9:24-27 can be taken literally are mistaken. Daniel 9:24-27 allows for a gap of time between the 69th and 70th week because the advancing of God’s program relating to His people Israel was put on hold and will be postponed until a future time. Primarily, because Israel ceased to be a nation after 70 A.D. until reestablished on May 14, 1948. Apparently critics like DeMar are not able to see the time gaps of the past, like the one demonstrated in this article, so it is not surprising that they do not understand how there is one in God’s future plan for His people Israel.

    Seventy Weeks/sevens Are Determined Upon Your People!

    The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel, in Dan.9:24-27. We will begin in verse 24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet.

    "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

    1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. (It has nothing at all to do with the church!)
    2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.)

    Verse.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah/Prince/Anointed One, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; (49 + 434 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." (See Neh.1:6.)

    The first seven weeks of the prophecy, or 49 years in vs 25, refers to the dedication of the completed rebuilding of Jerusalem and the walls, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving the remainder, or 62 more weeks, of 434 more years, for a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem.

    According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 445 BC.

    From the 69 weeks (Of years) from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days.

    Verse.26. "And after the sixty two weeks/sevens [Plus the first seven weeks/sevens; for a total of sixty nine weeks/sevens], to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem, on April 6, 32 A.D. the Anointed One/the Messiah/the Prince will be cut off and will have nothing." Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years, which began with the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 445 BC.) "...and the people of the prince that shall come, the Roman army, led by general Titus, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [in 70 A.D.], and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." 483 years of the 490 prophecied were fulfilled through Dan.9:26. 26. The 7oth and final week of 7 years, documented in Dan.9:27, is yet to come, as Jesus described in His Olivet Discourse, in Mt.24; Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

    After Jesus has been crucified, the Roman (prince) Titus comes with his legions and destroys Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora.
    To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23.

    Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness."

    Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age.

    Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, (When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.) being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli,"

    Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. [According to Sir Robert Armstrong at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.]

    There are 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,444 BC. From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a 365 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made.

    Or it can also be calculated from the 365 day year as follows:

    69 X 7 = 483 years

    445 B.C. to 32 A.D. is 476 years (B.C. 1 to A.D. 1 is one year).
    476 x 365 days 173,740 days
    Add for leap years 116 days (less 3 in 4 centuries) = 173,856
    March 14 to April 6, plus 24 days (inclusive) 173,856
    + 24 days = 173,880 total days, 483 years

    Terminal event of 69 weeks:

    The above date was the same day that the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9 (compare Luke19:28-44).[28]

    360 X 483 = 173,880 days. Since the earth is 360 degrees in circumference, why not one day per degree ?

    Converting the 365.2422 day year to the 360 day year:
    1. 32 years [AD] X 365.2422 days in our year = 11,687.75 days.
    2. 444 years [BC] X 365.2422 days in our year = 162,167.5 days.
    3. Total 173,855 days divided by 365.2422 = 476 years.
    4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 444 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days
    5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days.
    6. 476 years X 365.2422 days = 173,855 days +24 = 173,880 Days
    7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days
    8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days
    = 173,880 days!

    Or another way of arriving at the same number of days while usin our 365.2422 day year:

    Concerning the first 483 years (69x7) some scholars have calculated the fulfillment of this to the very day when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Revelation speaks of the second 3½ years of the Tribulation as 1,260 days and as 42 months (Rev. 11:2,3; 13:5). This would give us a 360 day year instead of our 365¼ day solar year. If the 483 years in Daniel 9 are to be understood the same way then that would come out to 173,880 days (483x360). To convert this into our solar years, we divide by 365.2422 and get 476.05 (173,880 / 365.2422). According to my Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia, the commandment of Artaxerxes I to Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem (Dan. 9:25) was in 445 BC. (This is also recorded in Nehemiah 2) 476 years - 444 BC = 32 + 1 (because 1 BC to 1 AD is one year, there is no year 0) brings us to 33 AD which is the year many scholars date the crucifixion (for various other reasons). The triumphal entry of our Lord into Jerusalem was just a few days before the crucifixion. However, even if we are not positive on some of these dates, the time frame is close enough that it is obvious that Jesus fulfilled the prediction

    Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel works out to the very same as our present 365.2422 day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter.

    The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation/Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord [Jer.30:7 and 2 Thes.2:2-3] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 + year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age!

    Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Note that all three of the "he's" in that vs is the Antichrist, the beast out of the sea, whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority, according to Rev.13:1-2.

    Amplified in the Olivet Discourse in Mt.24 and the counterparts in Mk.13 and in Lk.21, as well as in Rev.6.

    The Second Coming of the Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ!

    When the 70th and final week [seven years] prophecy described above is nearly completed, yet to take place, the Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ, will return to the Mount of Olives, according to Zech.14:4-5, with all the saints, the Church, following Him, riding on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, according to Rev.19:14, together with the angels, according to Mt.24:30-31.

    Jesus will lead us into the battle of Armageddon against the two beasts, the antichrist, and the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied with them. Our glorified bodies will be indestructable as well as sealed by the Holy Spirit. We will destroy the armies of the antichrist and the false prophet whom Jesus will throw into the lake of fire, recorded in Rev.19:11-21, ending the seven year tribulation.


    Quasar92
     
  7. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv No place in Revelation 20:1-6 does it show a kingdom on this earth with "Mortal Humans Present" as you believe and teach.

    The scripture presented represents the Lord's spiritual realm of eternity, no time.

    Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% the Lord's spiritual realm of no literal time.

    There is no kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present as you claim.

    Revelation 20:1-6KJV
    20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
     
  8. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv where is your 1000 year kingdom on earth below, mortal humans, Jews ruling in a temple, Jesus sitting on a throne?

    There isn't one Marv, you can read it again and again, it ain't there.

    No place in Revelation 20:1-6 does it show a kingdom on this earth with "Mortal Humans Present" as you believe and teach.

    The scripture presented represents the Lord's spiritual realm of eternity, no time.

    Angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ, 100% the Lord's spiritual realm of no literal time.

    There is no kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present as you claim.

    Revelation 20:1-6KJV
    20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
     
  9. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    >>>Your facts about it are still gossip! You're posting on a thread subject that has nothing whatever to do with it!<<<


    Quasar92


    Quasar92
     
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's far more important you learn to cut out your damaging characteristic of gossiping about others with the intentions of destroying their character. It is common place with you, ad nausium!


    Quasar92
     
  11. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Bible is full of Scriptures proving His 1,000 year reign on the earth! The following completely bury your views, as Marv keeps informing you!

    The Biblical Evidence that Jesus is Returning to Reign | Second Coming | Lamb and Lion Ministries

    THERE WILL BE TWO MORE TEMPLES BUILT IN ISRAEL

    The tribulation temple:

    Matthew 24:15 - When you see the “abomination of desolation,” spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place…

    2 Thessalonians 2:4 - "...so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God"

    Revelation 11:1 - "...Go and measure the temple of God and the alter..."

    The Millennial temple:

    Ezekiel 43:7 - "...this is the place of my throne...This is where I will live among the Israelites forever."

    Ezekiel 43:27 - …your priests will your burnt offerings and peace offerings on the altar, and I will accept you, declares the Lord.

    Zechariah 6:12 - Here is the Man whose name is the Branch, and he will…build the temple of the Lord.

    At the present time there is no temple on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem,
    the location of both the first and second Jewish Temples. Instead, two
    Muslim shrines, The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, stand on
    the Temple Mount. Meantime, the Jewish people to consider the Temple
    Mount to be the most sacred place for Jews in all the world. No wonder
    the Temple Mount is a political powder keg and must be part of any
    formula for peace in the Middle East!

    According to the Bible, a temple will once again stand on the Temple
    Mount. How and when the Temple Mount will be available for a future
    temple remains to be seen. Biblical prophecy “buffs” have proposed all
    kinds of potential scenarios for how all of this could take
    place—everything from earthquakes to explosives to the collapse of the
    Temple Mount platform!

    Some well-meaning Christians have felt that the biblical predictions of a
    future Temple should be spiritualized, saying that these prophecies
    refer to the Church or to the individual Christian. Indeed, 1
    Corinthians 3:16 makes it quite clear that the Church, as the body of
    Christ, is the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit. And in 1 Corinthians
    6:19 we are taught that the physical body of every individual believer
    is to be honored and kept clean, because it is the temple of the Holy
    Spirit. But these wonderful New Testament truths do not alter the
    biblical predictions of a literal future Temple in Jerusalem.

    The question of a future Temple gets more complicated when we realize
    that the Bible teaches that two temples are yet to stand on the Temple
    Mount in the future. First will come a Tribulation Temple, followed by a
    Millennium Temple which will be built when the Lord returns and sets up
    His kingdom on this earth. Let's look at the Scriptures dealing with
    these two future temples.

    Here: Israel's Third and Fourth Temples

    Here: http://sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzeki ... Temple.htm [No tribulation temple shown]


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    There are no "facts about it", because nobody has ever discovered where Scofield's D.D.S came from.

    In the past you have posted "C.I. Scofield D.D.S" as one of your sources.

    That is a fact, instead of "gossip".

    Therefore, it should be you who supplies the verification, since you often use your degrees as your authority in interpreting the scriptures, and you often belittle those without a degree.
    Again, this is not gossip. It is a fact.


    .
     
  13. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    WHO CARES! You don't know when to quit, do you!

    >>>It's far more important you learn to cut out your damaging characteristic of gossiping about others with the intentions of destroying their character. It is common place with you, ad nausium<<<

    What does the Bible say about a gossip?

    Proverbs 20:19
    19A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid anyone who talks too much.

    Proverbs 16:28 28A perverse person stirs up conflict, and a gossip separates close friends.

    Proverbs 26:20 20Without wood a fire goes out; without a gossip a quarrel dies down.

    Proverbs 11:13 13A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy person keeps a secret.

    Proverbs 18:8 8The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to the inmost parts.




    Quasar92!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Pastor Sam Adams on Scofield:


     
  15. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    <SNIP>


    Quasar92
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Pastor Sam Adams appears to me to be mixing two separate issues in one issue.
    1. He is against the possibility that the rapture could take place before the 70th week begins.
    2. He is claiming scolfied is the original of that line of thinking. Which I don't think he is right on.

    He combines those two issues to attack the pretrib rapture (pre-70th week) by attacking Scofield and not the rapture view directly. Plus, imo, he is dishonest that no-one can show him of the possibility of a pre-trib rapture. Luke 21:34-36.
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.
    This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.

    The angel Gabriel did not mention a "gap" in the 490 year prophecy.

    The summary of Daniel 9:24 is found fulfilled in Hebrews 10:16-18, and Acts 10:38.

    Jesus Christ is the New Covenant Messiah, who fulfilled Daniel 9:24 and Jeremiah 31:31-34, during the first century which is revealed in Hebrews 8:6-13.

    The only way a person can see the 70th week of Daniel is with a time machine set to return them to the first century.

    A future 70th week of Daniel is one of the greatest errors promoted on this forum.

    The idea is refuted by the 1599 Geneva Bible, which was written over 350 years before I was born.


    .
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    You provided a video by Pastor Sam Adams. Now you say he doesn't know what he talks about because he associates the 7 years as forthcoming? Try around minute 2:30. I don't agee with a lot of what he says, but he is clearly in opposition to your pov regarding the 70th week. He makes some good points though around minute 38:30 regarding gaps. At minute 50.18, he says the 7 year covenant is by the Antichrist.

    Dan.9.27: Christ or Antichrist
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  19. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Like many others of the Baptist persuasion Pastor Adams grew up hearing the Dispensational version of end-time events.

    He has done an excellent job of exposing Scofield's errors.
    However, we may not agree on this point.

    The same is true of Dr. Walter Martin, who has now passed on.
    I greatly appreciate much of what he said, however we may not agree on some points.

    Much of this confusion comes from a lack of understanding about the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

    None of these men is our standard.
    The standard must be scripture and scripture alone. "Sola Scriptura"

    Let God be true and every man a liar. That includes me.

    ....................................................

    Does Matthew 10:5-7 and Galatians 1:14-18 confirm that the Gospel was taken to Israel for about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles?

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  20. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Time Gap between Dan.9:26 and 27

    My previous installment concluded the textual examination of Daniel 9:24-27. However, there are still other issues to deal with in relation to the passage and the postponement of the seventieth week from the first sixty-nine. These final articles will deal will a few concluding issues.

    Critics of a Time Gap

    Those who do not think that the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 have a literal and chronologically precise fulfillment are opposed to the postponement of the seventieth week as a yet future time of seven years. Examples of such criticism can be found by those within the Reconstructionist movement, holding to a form of preterist postmillennialism. Gary DeMar complains:

    Fellow preterist, Dr. Ken Gentry echoes DeMar’s refrain in the following:

    Dr. Gentry is right about one thing, that the Daniel 9 passage is the only Messianic prophecy that specifically deal with chronology or the time element. While I believe that I have shown that the passage itself requires a chronological postponement between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of years, it is also supported by other Messianic passages which are not specifically time oriented, but clearly do refer to distinct time-periods: Christ’s first coming and his second coming.

    If anyone believes in the two comings of Christ, and both DeMar and Gentry do, then they also believe in a gap of time between the first and second coming of Christ. I want to show how this fits into a clear biblical pattern that in turn lends support to the notion of a gap of time in Daniel 9:24-27.

    Two phases of Christ's career
    It is obvious from the Bible that if you view the ministry or career of Christ in its entirety, then it is composed of two parts or phases. The first phase encompasses the first coming of Jesus two thousand years ago, while the second phase will consist of His second coming some time in the future. Yet many Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah commingled their descriptions of both phases of Christ into a single passage, without distinguishing between the two comings or phases of His earthly career.

    It is commonly understood today that the Jews of the first century did not understand that these Old Testament prophecies spoke of a single Messiah who would come twice—once in humiliation, then again in glorious exaltation. We have learned that many Jews of Christ’s day thought that there would be two different Messiahs—Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David. Messiah ben Joseph would be one who suffers and dies, but is immediately followed by Messiah ben David, who reigns in glory. The reality of Scripture is that there is but one Messiah—Jesus of Nazareth—who comes twice. This means that there is a gap of time between the two comings.

    Even though preterists like DeMar and Gentry belittle a gap of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks of Daniel 9:24-27, they are driven to believe in a gap of time between the two comings. DeMar and Gentry even believe in a gap, so far, of almost 2,000 years. Yet this time-gap is not explicitly stated in Scripture. So how can DeMar and Gentry hold to something like a gap of time that not explicitly stated in Scripture? Because the only possible implication that can be deduced from the facts of Christ’s two comings is that there is a time-gap between the two events. In like manner, such a time-gap must also follow from the fact that Christ has a career that is two-phased.

    Why is this important to our study of the seventy weeks of Daniel? It is important, because as Gentry noted above, "An overriding concern of the prophecy, in distinction to all other Messianic prophecies is that it is specifically designed to be a measuring time-frame." True, so true, Dr. Gentry. Yet, you believe in a gap of time between the two comings of Christ, even though it is not specifically stated in the Bible. In the same way, I would argue that all other Messianic passages that speak of the two aspects or phases of the career of Messiah also must imply that they are fulfilled at the two comings of Christ, . . . with a gap of time in between. This means that there are many similar passages that speak in a single statement of items that encompass both phases of Christ’s career—the first and second advents. However, as Dr. Gentry has noted, only the Daniel 9:24-27 passage deals specifically with measuring time. This explains why the Daniel passage is the only Messianic text that deals specifically with a time frame. However, a significant number of other Messianic passages have something in common with the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27. They all speak of components of Christ’s career that will take place in the two phases of His two advents. Only the Daniel text speaks of time factors.

    Two-Phased Messianic Passages

    This means that it is legitimate to argue for a gap of time from the other Messianic passages that also include, in a single passage, the two elements of Christ’s career. Dr. Randall Price makes note of the way Scripture uses time gaps and provides a list of passages that fit into this category in the following statement:

    Perhaps the most well-known example of the kind of prophecy about which I speak is found in Christ’s reading of Isaiah 61:1-2 as recorded in Luke 4:16-30. The passage reads as follows:

    Tim LaHaye and I have a chart diagramming this passage in our new book called Charting the End Times. We say concerning this passage:

    Another example of what some have called "double reference" is found in Zechariah 9:9-10. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum says concerning double reference:

    In the same context we see that verse nine refers to Christ’s first coming:

    Verse ten is a reference only to Christ’s second coming as follows:

    In the Zechariah passage, there has to be a gap of time between the fulfillment of the verse nine that relates to Messiah’s first coming two thousand years ago, and His second advent, which is still a yet future event. Even though no time factor is explicitly stated in the text, because of the specific nature of the events described in the two verses, a gap of time is required to coordinate the fulfillment of this prophecy with the events of history.

    Conclusion

    The point that I am making in this article, relating to the seventy weeks of Daniel prophecy, is that it is not unreasonable to find implied time gaps in a significant number of Messianic passages in the Old Testament. I am not saying that this proves that there is in fact a gap in Daniel 9:24-27, I believe that I have demonstrated that in the earlier installments in this series. I think that this article demonstrates that it is not unreasonable to expect a Messianic passage that requires a time-gap between the fulfillment of all events prophesied in that passage. This supports our literal interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. Maranatha!

    By Thomas Ice, PhD



    Quasar92
     
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