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Featured Revelation in chart form

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The amazing works by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum in his complete book of Revelation in chart form @:

    [In Adobe PDF] http://www.arielm.org/outlines/o-rev-charts.pdf

    About Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum:

    Fruchtenbaum was born in 1943 in Siberia, Russia. The family escaped to Germany in 1947 after his father had been falsely accused of being a Nazi spy. At age 13, Fruchtenbaum came to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. His father opposed this and forbade him to read the Bible, attend meetings, or otherwise meet with Messianic Jews. The family moved to Los Angeles in 1958.

    After being forced to leave the family home, in 1962 he began college education at Shelton College in New Jersey. He moved to Cedarville College in Ohio, where he graduated with a BA degree in Hebrew and Greek in 1966. He then moved to Israel, where he studied archeology, ancient history, historical geography, and Hebrew at the American Institute of Holy Land Studies and the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. During this time, he witnessed the Six Day War in 1967.

    Later that year, Fruchtenbaum returned to the U.S. and entered Dallas Theological Seminary to continue his studies in Hebrew and the Old Testament. He also began working as a missionary with American Board of Missions to the Jews (ABMJ; today, Chosen People Ministries). Fruchtenbaum was married in 1968 to Mary Ann Morrow, a graduate of Gordon College, Massachusetts. Three years later (1971), he graduated with a Master of Theology degree from Dallas. He and his wife then moved to Israel and settled in Jerusalem to work with the local church and to train young Israeli Jewish believers for Christian service. They left Israel in 1973.

    During the two years following, Fruchtenbaum served as a minister and as editor of "The Chosen People," a monthly publication . This was with ABMJ in New Jersey. Then in 1976 he joined the staff of The Christian Jew Foundation as associate director.

    Fruchtenbaum originally was of the view that Jewish converts should attempt to integrate with local Gentile congregations, but later came to regard separate Jewish congregations as valid.[1]

    At this time he struggled with the issue of discipleship and perceived a need for biblical and theological training for Jewish Messianic believers. This was discussed with other leaders and this turned into the ideas for Ariel Ministries. Late 1977, Ariel Ministries was established. Fruchtenbaum is the founding director of Ariel Ministries and continues in this role and as a speaker at conferences.

    He travels internationally throughout Europe, Israel and the United States. This has given him a broad knowledge of the messianic movement. He has completed his doctoral dissertation, Israelology: The Missing Link in Systematic Theology at New York University in 1989. Fruchtenbaum has published a number of books.

    Recommended Reading:

    Footsteps of the Messiah
    by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum

    Summary: Using the Book of Revelation as an end time road map, Dr. Fruchtenbaum weaves the prophetic writings of the Hebrew Scriptures and Messiah's teachings to reveal God's plan for the future of Israel and the world. Dr. Fruchtenbaum gathers the many pieces of the prophetic puzzle and places them in sequential order with the result summed up by Dr. Charles Ryrie in his foreword: "Those who read this book cannot help but be instructed and stimulated by his work."

    Footsteps is detailed, thorough and scholarly, yet written in a style that the average reader can easily understand. With a wealth of wisdom drawn from his Jewish background and extensive research, the author even tackles the "problem passages" to provide a comprehensive overview of the entire range of prophetic truth. "In a thoroughly biblical, balanced, and clear presentation, Arnold Fruchtenbaum plainly lays out God's plan for the future while avoiding the sensational errors of other prophetic writers. I have relied on this book as a resource for years." Michael Rydelnik, Professor of Jewish Studies Program, Moody Bible Institute

    Twenty years of teaching Eschatology since the original writing of this book has given Dr. Fruchtenbaum further reflections on some passages. This updated edition includes five new appendices to the book.



    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Dallas Theological Seminary is a chief promoter of the Two Peoples of God doctrine that John Nelson Darby brought to America, about the time of the Civil War and was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.

    Since that time it has spread like a virus through the evangelical Church.





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  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The fact of the matter is, Dallas Theological Seminary properly teaches that Israel and the Church are two very separate entities, by the division of the Church believers and the non-believers of Israel. An easy equation for any child to understand. In contrast to the heretic view of those who try remaking the Scriptures with their claim of the Church being Israel.

    Your attempt at making John Darby and C.I. Scofield the inventors of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, denying it was Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, who taught it, from the ery day they wrote if, as documented below, that you have been refuted over numerous times before:

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dee...g-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html


    Quasar92
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    He doesn't know the difference between the person as the Antichrist, and the person as the beast.
     
  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your disdain for a highly esteemed man of God is a mark of your character. IMO, it is contemptible of an honorable theologian, author and lecturer in the service for the Lord, Jesus Christ.


    Quasar92
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Darby adopted the "Secret Rapture" doctrine from the Irvingites, which is clearly revealed by the historical written record found below.



    PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
    with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
    F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
    http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


    Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
    PDF Files


    Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

    .
     
  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Chart number 1 is SPOT ON, then until he gets to the 1000 year reign charts about #9 or 10 I disagree with things in every chart. For instance you don't believe the 7 Heads are in stages starting in 753 BC do you? The 7 Heads are all 7 of the Beast Kingdoms over Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region, and the last one will be a Man. We do not disrespect a man because we don't agree with everything.

    Douggg is a fine man also, he just has this thing about the timing of the Anti-Christ and him being the King of Israel. As much as we agree, we are kinda at loggerheads on that, but hes a fine gentleman sir, no use biting his head off because he disagree with the gentleman I am sure is also a fine man. After all, to love one another is our first order.

    There are some on here who I never agree with a post on, but they have a right to post just as I do. Me thinks you woke up on the wrong side of the bed brother. I have done that also many times. No worries.

    God Bless.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    He still doesn't know the difference of the person being the Antichrist and the person being the beast. And has so many errors in his charts, I don't want spend my time going into all of them.
     
  9. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For the numerous times I have informed you, John Darby DID NOT invent the pre-trib rapture from anyone or anything, except from Jesus and Paul, primarily, as I last pointed out to you in my post #3. The first two posts, of the four, in the following link, of the Biblical teachings on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, continue to refute you!

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dee...g-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html


    Quasar92
     
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    About John Nelson Darby, for your edification:

    John N. Darby and the Pre-trib Rapture

    By: Dr. Thomas Ice, PhD.

    "Brethren writer Roy A. Huebner claims and documents his belief that J.N. Darby first began to believe in the pretrib rapture and develop his dispensational thinking while convalescing from a riding accident during December 1826 and January 1827. If this is true, then all of the origin-of-the- rapture conspiracy theories fall to the ground in a heap of speculative rubble. Darby would have at least a three-year jump on any who would have supposedly influenced his thought, making it impossible for all the "influence" theories to have any credibility.

    Huebner provides clarification and evidence that Darby was not influenced by Margaret Macdonald, Lacunza, Edward Irving, or the Irvingites. These are all said by the detractors of Darby and the pretrib rapture to have been bridges which led to Darby's thought. Instead, he demonstrates that Darby's understanding of pretribulationism was the product of the development of his personal interactive thought with the text of Scripture as he, his friends, and dispensationalists have long contended.

    Darby's pretrib and dispensational thoughts, says Huebner, were developed from the following factors:

    1. "he saw from Isaiah 32 that there was a different dispensation coming ... that Israel and the Church were distinct. 1121

    2. "During his convalescence JND learned that he ought daily to expect his Lord's return. 1121

    3. "In 1827 JND understood 'the ruin of the Church.' 1128

    4. Darby also was beginning to see a gap of time between the 21 rapture and the second coming by 1827.

    5. Darby, himself, said in 1857 that he first started understanding things relating to the pre-trib Rapture "thirty years ago." "With that fixed point of reference, January 31, 1827," declares Huebner, we can see that Darby "had already understood those truths upon which the pre-tribulation rapture hinges. 1131

    German author Max S. Weremchuk has produced a major new biography on Darby entitled John Nelson Darby: A Biography. He agrees with Huebner's conclusions concerning the matter. "Having read MacPherson's book..." says Weremchuk, "I find it impossible to make a just comparison between what Miss MacDonald 'prophesied' and what Darby taught. It appears that the wish was the father of the idea. 1131

    When reading Darby's earliest published essay on biblical prophecy (1829), it is clear that while it still has elements of historicism, it also reflects the fact that for Darby, the rapture was to be the church's focus and hope Even in this earliest of essays, Darby expounds upon the rapture as the church's hope."

    F. F. Bruce, who was part of the Brethren movement his entire life, but one who did not agree with the pre-trib rapture, commented on the validity of MacPherson's thesis:

    Where did he [Darby] get it? The reviewer's answer would be that it was in the air in the 1820s and 1830s among eager students of unfulfilled prophecy ... direct dependence by Darby on Margaret Macdonald is unlikely.

    John Walvoord's assessment is likely close to the truth: any careful student of Darby soon discovers that he did not get his eschatological views from men, but rather from his doctrine of the church as the body of Christ, a concept no one claims was revealed supernaturally to Irving or Macdonald. Darby's views undoubtedly were gradually formed, but they were theologically and biblically based rather than derived from Irving's pre-Pentecostal group.


    Conclusion

    Detractors of pretribulationism often want to say or imply that our view cannot be found in the pages of the Bible and must have come from a deviant source. Of course, we strongly object to such a notion, and have taken great pains over the years to show that the New Testament not only teaches pretribulationism, but holds it forth as our "blessed hope," a central focus of faith. It is also clear to me that when the church recognizes the four biblical foundations supporting pretribulationism (consistent literal interpretation, premillennialism, futurism, and a distinction between Israel and the church), that the biblical view of pretribulationism is recognized.

    As believers in the imminent return of Christ, we need to let this precious truth and hope impact our daily lives as we anticipate our Lord's return. We, like those who have gone before us, need to realize that such a blessed hope should teach us that we should live chaste lives, giving ourselves to evangelism and world missions until the bride hears her groom shout, "come up here!" Church historian Kurt Aland characterizes the impact that belief in an imminent coming of our Lord (a key element of pretribulationism) had in the life of the early church:

    Up until the middle of the second century, and even later, Christians did not live in and for the present, but they lived in and for the future; and this was in such a way that the future flowed into the present, that future and present became one-a future which obviously stood under the sign of the Lord's presence. It was the confident expectation of the first generations that the end of the world was not only near, but that it had really already come. It was the definite conviction not only of Paul, but of all Christians of that time, that they themselves would experience the return of the Lord."

    Aland then contrasts it with the condition of the church in our own day and at another time when she is not motivated by the imminent return of Christ: At first, people looked at it as only a brief postponement, as the Shepherd of Hermas clearly expresses. But soon, as the end of the world did not occur, it was conceived of as a longer and longer period, until finally-this is today's situation-nothing but the thought of a postponement exists in people's consciousness. Hardly any longer is there the thought of the possibility of an imminent

    Parousia. Today we live with the presumption - I would almost say from the presumption-that this world is going to continue; it dominates our consciousness. Practically, we no longer speak about a postponement, but only seldom does the idea of the end of the world and the Lord's return for judgment even occur to us; rather, it is pushed aside as annoying and disturbing-in contrast to the times when faith was alive. It is very characteristic that in ages when the church flourishes, the expectation of the end revives-we think of Luther; we think of Pietism. If we judge our present time by its expectation of the future, our judgment can only be a very negative one.

    ... Only when the imminent expectation of the Parousia diminishes, only when life is no longer lived in constant reference to the Last Day and no longer takes its direction from the Last Day was an organization of the church as an institution even possible or necessary. This took place in the second half of the second century."

    While Brethren theologian J.N. Darby may have restored the pretribulational rapture doctrine into the life of the church, he did not originate it. Pretribulationism is found first in the New Testament and at times throughout the history of the church. Oh that we would recapture for the church in our day this "blessed hope" which would help stir her to life with the mighty implications of such a truth. This cannot be accomplished when there are those who are disturbing the faith of some by the misuse of the history of the rapture. Maranatha!"


    Quasar92
     
  11. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    IMO, you are the one who doesn't know the connection between the beast and the Antichrist. Review the following:

    Who and where to find the antichrist and Satan and their titles in the Bible:

    The term antichrist:
    1 Jn.2:18; 2:22 and 4:3

    Titles of the antichrist in the Bible:
    The "Beast"
    Revelation 6:2; 11:7; 13:1-18; 17:8,11,16; 19:19,20 and 20:4.
    The "Little Horn"
    Daniel 7:7-8

    The stern-faced king
    Dan.8.23-25

    "And he shall confirm a covenant"
    Dan.9:27

    The King Who "Does What He Pleases" "Magnifies Himself Above God", and "Speaks Monstrous Things Against God"
    Daniel 11:36-45

    The "Foolish Shepherd" and the "Worthless Shepherd"
    Zechariah 11:15-17

    The "Man of Sin", the "Son of Destruction", and the "man of lawlessness"
    2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4 and 8.

    Where to find Satan and his titles in the Bible:
    "And the serpent said unto the woman, 'you shall not surely die.'"
    Gen.3:4.
    "And I shall put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed"
    Gen.3:15.

    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer son of the morning"
    Isa.14:12-17.

    "Thou hast been in Eden/thou art the anointed cherub"
    Ez.28:11-17.
    "Then was Jesus led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil."
    Mt.4:1.
    "Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out"
    Jn.12:31.

    "The great dragon was hurled down - that ancient serpent called the devil or Satan."
    Rev.12:9.
    The dragon gave the beast his throne, power and great authority."
    Rev.13:2.
    And many more!


    Quasar92
     
  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your opininion is meaningless without supporting evidence for credibility. And just where do you expect to obtain your authority to refute facts he has set forth from Scripture?


    Quasar92
     
  13. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What does DTS teach about this Israel?

    From the "Jewish" community itself:

    Abraham lineage

    DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

    Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

    Abraham's DNA is found in every human being on earth. The "Jewish" community agrees.

    The second article above reveals that the "Jewish" community (which is now no longer distinguishable genetically, but only religiously and culturally) in fact welcomes the proliferation of the Abrahamic genome throughout the whole of humanity, as they view it, perversely, as the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.

    Thus God's promise to Abraham, fulfilled under the New Covenant spiritually in Christ and those who are in Christ (Galatians 3:16,28,29; 2 Corinthians 1:20), is perverted into a pharisaic/talmudic racialized expectation.

    Such is DTS's Israel.

    But this is God's Own Israel, the only Israel that He recognizes:

    Acts 10
    34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    In other words, again, and again -- those of faith and obedience. The Israel of God, His Church.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Saying titles of the antichrist - is like saying titles for the King of Israel, who is instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

    Beast, Little horn are not titles, but roles. You could say code names or aliases for the person. But the roles are different as well.

    The Antichrist is a title, but only for while the person holds the title King of Israel (illegitimate). He's gonna to get deposed by the Jewish people, when he claims to be God.

    Q, you are telling me it is the same person consistent throughout. I agree, but he is in different roles at different times. Being the Antichrist is different in function from being the beast. And different from being the little horn. And different from being the revealed man of sin.

    You are misusing "the Antichrist" as a blanket term for the person.

    It's like continuing to call Barack Obama - Senator - as a blanket term... after he moves on to become President. Everything he does while functioning as President, they don't call him Senator, because he is not Senator any more at that point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Q, in Luke 24:44-48, who opened the understanding of the scriptures to the disciples?

    God doesn't dance to the tune of the seminaries and clergy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  16. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My post #3 provided the answer ro the first uestion you ask. Review the following for more:

    Rev 2:9: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”

    Rev 3:9: “Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie–indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.”

    Concerning the “group calling themselves Jews, but are not Jews” or “the Synagogue of Satan”. Do you have any thoughts on who, currently on the world stage, this may be?

    Various groups have falsely claimed to be Jews over the years. Today certain groups in the Church believe they’ve inherited the promises God made to Israel. Some of them even live according to to the Levitical system. This view is called Replacement Theology.

    Some teach that the European Jews, who make up a majority of Israel’s citizenry today, are not a legitimate part of Israel because they are predominantly the descendants of converts and not true sons of Jacob. But the Bible disagrees with that view and in any case, you’ll find members of all 12 tribes in Israel today. The so-called 10 lost tribes were never completely lost. We know this because 2 chronicles 11:14-17 tells us at the time of the rebellion that divided the Kingdom the faithful from all 12 tribes moved to the south. And at the end of the Age God will find 12,000 each from 12 tribes in Israel to serve as His evangelists on Earth. (Rev. 7:1-8)

    I think Paul gave a good answer to your question in Romans 2:28-29. He said,

    “A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.”


    Quasar92
     
  17. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The listing of who and what the one and only one dictator ruler, before the return of Christ, is the Antichrist in the Bible, whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, as recorded in Rev.13:1-2, I provided for you in my post #11.

    Cut out your arguing as to his "having other roles." The u8ssue is who and what he is, from which there is no option. Prove to me otherwise from the Scripture and throw the opinions out!


    Quasar92
     
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  18. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    ntichrist

    More opinion without a shred o Scriptural support! FYI, nowhere in the Bible is the Antichrist found as a king of Israel! The listings of who and what he is documented as being in the Bible, can br found in my post #11.


    Quasar92
     
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  19. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    None of which responds to who and what the Abtichrist is, or where he is found in the Bible. See my post #11.


    Quasar92
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Above we have Darby apologists explaining how John Darby came up with the pretrib doctrine, after a fall from his horse during 1827.

    There is one chief witness against them.
    That would be John Darby himself.

    During 1829 Darby wrote a prophetic paper written from the historicist, amill perspective with no mention of the pretrib doctrine.
    However, Darby does mention "The Morning Watch", which was the publication of the Irvingites.
    Therefore, we know that Darby was keeping up with the followers of Edward Irving.

    See the links below, which were not written by Darby apologists.



    PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
    with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
    F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
    http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


    Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
    PDF Files


    Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


    Pretribulationist Revisionism
    (Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
    Pastor Tim Warner
    http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

    .
     
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