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Featured Revelation in chart form

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    The non-stop continual repeating of your dislike of what a man taught is well beneath of what God expects from you - it amounts to nothing more than 'putting someone down in order to lift yourself up ' -for in the same measure/manner you judge others the same measure will be used to judge you.

    Be Merciful as God has shown mercy to you
    It seems it is everyday that you and your buddy post something negative about someone who say something you don't agree with - you ought to realize that the 'other books' that are opened contain records of how you conducted yourself compared to how Jesus said to do- Jesus does not want people to gossip
    gossip.PNG
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson on criticism of the Two Peoples of God doctrine...



    .
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Once again you post the error of the seven year tribulation period.

    The word "seven" in not found in any of the verses above.


    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (How long is "forever"?)


    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
  4. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your facts about it are still gossip! You're posting on a thread subject that has nothing whatever to do with it!


    Quasar92
     
  5. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    So - you are a disciple of Kelly Varner.
    But I'm talking to you not him.
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    No. I am not his disciple.

    Much of what he said is also found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

    .........................................................


    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    .
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The source of Scofield's Doctorate of Divinity must also be gossip, since neither you or anyone else has been able to identify how he got it...

    .
     
  8. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I simply won't discuss these thing any longer with people who pick and choose which scriptures they will believe or not believe.

    Pre tribs accept and teach about all of the scriptures comonly cited by those who don't believe in pre trib.

    Those who don't believe in pre trib simply ignore the scriptures cited by pre tribs.

    They compound their disingenuous methods by bringing in peripheral issues concerning the lives of long dead theologians.

    If I chose to do my theology that way - I would always win the theological arguments I participated in. The trouble with that is that the victory would only be in my own mind. It would be wasted time when all is said and done.:wave:
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The fact is that once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

    The only way you can make your doctrine work is by ignoring the New Covenant verses found below.


    Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

    Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

    Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

    1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

    2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

    Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

    Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

    .
     
  10. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I disagree. I make it work just fine.

    To the contrary - the only way you and others here can make your doctrine work is to ignore many other verses too numerous for me to list here.

    The book of Revelation refers several times to the 3 and 1/2 year and 7 year period mentioned in the book of Daniel. The seating of the anti-Christ in the temple mentioned in Daniel is also referred to in the book of Revelation.

    The proposition put forth by your mentor Kelly Varner that Christ Himself appeared to the apostle John decades after His ascension to show him what he was to tell to God's people concerning "what must soon take place" - when those things had already taken place decades before in the life and ministry of Jesus is ridiculous on the face of it.

    But, as I indicated before, I simply can't compete in a systematic approach to end time events with people who just ignore certain concepts which I see very clearly in the scriptures.

    When there is no wrath of God in the tribulation, nothing for the church to escape, no millennium with an ongoing population of non glorified citizens, no life on this present earth with a binding of Satan, no final rebellion of Satan and the people of the earth - and just a just a general willy nilly spiritualizing of clear teachings from the scriptures ----- I simply have no way to prove my doctrine in the systematic way I feel the scriptures dictate.

    So - why bother? You can teach whatever you want to here and people can buy into it if they want to.

    But those buying into it need to realize that they are doing so by just ignoring certain scriptures.

    Go ahead on folks. But that's just not the way I roll.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  11. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum: attended Dallas Theological in 1971

    Lewis S. Chafer who founded Dallas Theological was mentored by C.I. Scofield, Chafer in 1913 helped Scofield start "Philadelphia School Of The Bible"

    When Scofield died in 1921, Chafee moved to Dallas to pastor the Church Scofield had pastored.

    It's very important to understand the education of Dr. Fruchtenbaum, and who started Dallas Theological.

    This information is well within the topic of the OP
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  12. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv you disregard the truth presented without answer why?

    There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

    Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

    "ETERNITY BEGINS"!

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  13. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv you disregard the truth presented without answer why?

    There is your "Last Day" The End Marv, at the future second coming of Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 15:20-24KJV
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end,
    when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
     
  14. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    The scriptures say otherwise.

    What's more they do so in a format where the Lord Himself in telling His people "what must soon take place".

    If you want to ignore what it says and take away from the prophecies written in that at book - go ahead on. Wouldn't wanna be ya!
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Then go ahead and show how your doctrine works with the New Covenant verses provided in post #209, above.

    .
     
  16. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    Like I said before -
    I always encourage my students to read and study the Book of Revelation - pointing out to them that it is the only book of the Bible which offers a special blessing for those who will study it.

    But, along with that encouragement, I give them a warning. The book also comes with a curse on those who would take from it's teaching.

    That warning is particularly appropriate for those here and elsewhere who deny that the advent of our Lord is followed by a 1000 year reign on this earth.

    It is understandable that there would be some disagreement about certain things in a book written in the manner that Revelation is written.

    I love to discuss doctrine as much as the next guy.

    But what is going on here - with these denials of what is clearly written for us to believe - goes way beyond the mere intramural discussion of doctrine.

    What we are witnessing here, as I see it, is nothing less than the calling down of the curse of God on the heads of those who take away from the prophecies in the Book of Revelation.

    That's why I say, in all seriousness, "Wouldn't wanna be ya".

    As they say in the movies - "Be afraid -- be very afraid".
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  17. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv you believe and teach the judgment described below is not the "Final Judgment" read it slow and carefully, "Everlasting Fire" & "Eternal Life"!

    Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he taught below, you have been clearly shown Marv.

    There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

    Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

    "ETERNITY BEGINS"!

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  18. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    That same book comes with a warning to those who falsely "ADD" a literal 1000 year kingdom on this earth, that isn't found in Revelation 20:1-6

    Revelation 22:18-19KJV
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he taught below, you have been clearly shown Marv.

    There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for judgment.

    Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

    "ETERNITY BEGINS"!

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  19. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    There's a big difference between believing that what the Lord showed John is to be taken literally - and simply not believing it.

    A really big difference IMO. All the difference in the world in fact.

    You can play games by trying to reverse my warning to you if you want to. But you do so at your peril. This is deadly serious as I see it.

    I certainly wouldn't want to go through the tribulation - that's for sure. But, having said that, it wouldn't be the first time I had been wrong about a doctrine and had to change what I teach.

    It's not the being wrong about the rapture that would bother me.

    What bothers me is the utter disregard by you and some others for a portion of the Book of Revelation - which is the framework and likely the impetus for your teaching against the rapture.

    I'm just the messenger and I'm just reminding you about what it says by way of warning.

    I and others like me believe what the scriptures say about the final judgment (the ones you refer to). But you simply don't believe the ones about the 1000 year reign of Christ with His saints.

    And - before you say it again - there is a world of difference between what you think I'm doing and what you are doing.
     
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Marv will you continue to teach a temporary 1000 year earthly kingdom at the return of Jesus Christ?

    That same book comes with a warning to those who falsely "ADD" a literal 1000 year kingdom on this earth, that isn't found in Revelation 20:1-6

    Revelation 22:18-19KJV
    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Jesus Christ Returns In the final judgment, eternal life, eternal kingdom, as he taught below, you have been clearly shown Marv.

    There will be no future 1000 year kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present, as Jesus sits on a throne watching mortal humans dying around him.

    Verses 31-32 Jesus Returns with the angels, the nations are gathered for final judgment.

    Verse 34 The eternal kingdom is presented to the righteous.

    Verse 41 The wicked are judged to the eternal lake of fire.

    Verse 46 The righteous obtain eternal life, and enter the eternal kingdom in verse 34

    "ETERNITY BEGINS"!

    Matthew 25:31-46KJV
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
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