Revelation 14:1

Fuzzy

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Call it intellectual curiosity...

Revelation 14:1 mentions the Lamb standing on Mount Sion (Zion?)
with 144,000 who've been marked with the name of God. I've heard
and read this described as those who'll be saved.

First, in the Christian faith, is this number just symbolic, it's more
poetic to write "144,000" than "a whole bunch"? Or is this a literal
number? If this is a literal number, have the 144,000 been chosen
already? What happens to the other people who were just as qualified
as the 144K? Hell? Limbo? Oblivion? Are these 144,000 from all humanity
ever, or just Christians?

Again, intellectual curiosity, nothing more. Thanks in advance for the assistance.
 

Kamtre

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well, ive never thot about it much but, what i understand is: the 144k will be jewish.. and there will be more christians than that.. but the 144k are special chosen witnesses for the tribulation. and they are protected by God from all dangers. well im not sure about ALL dangers but thats about it.. well hope u understand.
 
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Rafael

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I wonder about this too, and here is my speculation: Before this 144,000 can be united and defined as the 12 tribes of Israel, this verse (Ez. 37:16,17) has to be fulfilled where the ten lost tribes of Israel (the house of Israel) are reunited with the house of Judah or the Jews. Has this happened yet? Ephraim was the head tribe in the house of Israel, the northern territory, and heir to the "firstborn" promise while Judah was blessed by Jacob to carry the sceptre of power as ruler. Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. When the "firstborn" of God fully realizes who it is and unites with Judah who realizes its Messiah, Jesus, then the end can begin where 12,000 from each tribe that are virgins will usher in the coming of the Lord in some way. Of course, I believe that the Church is the lost tribes of Israel as the connection of "firstborn" scriptures throughout the Bible are hard to ignore along with the desription of how these tribes were dispersed into the world and swallowed into the Gentile nations only to come forth as "Sons of the living God".
The stick or rod symbolizes rulership or leadership (Nu.17:2). God promises that there will be one ruler over both houses of Israel one day. And this is why I believe that the Church and the Jews are the two witnesses on earth to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The line of succession is repeated in scripture many times as it shows who the promise of God made to Abraham goes to by inheritance. Ofcourse God never lost anything, especially not His "firsborn" who would receive the covenant promise from God.

Ezekial 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This prophecy was given to the northern territory Israel that was composed of the ten tribes that would come to be the lost sheep of the house of Israel Jesus spoke of and Paul later on pointed out in Romans 9:25,26. Ephraim is the ruler over these ten tribes of the house of Israel, and Joseph his father.

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Romans 9:25 ¶ As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." 26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God."

Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together from the land of the north to the land that I gave your fathers as an inheritance.

(Eze 28:25 NASB) 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and will manifest My holiness in them in the sight of the nations, then they will live in their land which I gave to My servant Jacob.

Jer 31:20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD.
 
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Serapha

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Fuzzy said:
Call it intellectual curiosity...

Revelation 14:1 mentions the Lamb standing on Mount Sion (Zion?)
with 144,000 who've been marked with the name of God. I've heard
and read this described as those who'll be saved.

First, in the Christian faith, is this number just symbolic, it's more
poetic to write "144,000" than "a whole bunch"? Or is this a literal
number? If this is a literal number, have the 144,000 been chosen
already? What happens to the other people who were just as qualified
as the 144K? Hell? Limbo? Oblivion? Are these 144,000 from all humanity
ever, or just Christians?

Again, intellectual curiosity, nothing more. Thanks in advance for the assistance.
Hi there!

:wave:

No, it isn't a symbolic number, but a realistic 144,000 people from the remnant of Jews. A God that knows the number of hairs on your head also knows that 144,000 faithful witnesses will be needed.


~serapha~
 
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helmikaarina

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Revelation is a revelation, a vision, and there are many symbols. 144 000 is one of them. The number is also mentioned in the Revelation 7:4 and has caused much discussion, what it could symbolize and if I understand right nobody can say for certain what it means. I think it's a symbolic number for the whole nation of God and Christ is there among his people.
 
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CPman2004

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Fuzzy said:
Call it intellectual curiosity...

Revelation 14:1 mentions the Lamb standing on Mount Sion (Zion?)
with 144,000 who've been marked with the name of God. I've heard
and read this described as those who'll be saved.

First, in the Christian faith, is this number just symbolic, it's more
poetic to write "144,000" than "a whole bunch"? Or is this a literal
number? If this is a literal number, have the 144,000 been chosen
already? What happens to the other people who were just as qualified
as the 144K? Hell? Limbo? Oblivion? Are these 144,000 from all humanity
ever, or just Christians?

Again, intellectual curiosity, nothing more. Thanks in advance for the assistance.
We are still debating that one ourselves :)

Revelations is a book of things to come, and somethings won't be known until it happens. Personally I dislike trying to figure out all the small little details on Revelation, but I think we should focus on the overall messege of the book. Jesus is coming back and he will be judging the World, evil will be destroyed and we better get saved before it is too late.
 
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Underdog77

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Fuzzy said:
Call it intellectual curiosity...

Revelation 14:1 mentions the Lamb standing on Mount Sion (Zion?)
with 144,000 who've been marked with the name of God. I've heard
and read this described as those who'll be saved.

First, in the Christian faith, is this number just symbolic, it's more
poetic to write "144,000" than "a whole bunch"? Or is this a literal
number? If this is a literal number, have the 144,000 been chosen
already? What happens to the other people who were just as qualified
as the 144K? Hell? Limbo? Oblivion? Are these 144,000 from all humanity
ever, or just Christians?

Again, intellectual curiosity, nothing more. Thanks in advance for the assistance.
While of course there are different views on the number only one can be right. And I think that the best answer is yes, the number is a literal number. There will be 144000 chosen (chosen is key word there) witnesses and as someone said earlier these chosen will be protected bla bla bla...

Now, there will probably be other Christians in that time. We know there will be at least 144000 because the Bible says so but chances are many more will come to Christ and these will either a) die during the tribulation or b) survive to see Jesus return and liev under his reign during the millenium kingdom.
 
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Catholic Evangelist

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Well, i dont know if you know this tidbit from history but in about ad 70 the Christian community of Jerusalem literally fled to the hills just before the Romans razed the city to the ground. That may have been a community of 144,000, we dont know. Im just proposing a different interpretation.
 
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Underdog77

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Catholic Evangelist said:
Well, i dont know if you know this tidbit from history but in about ad 70 the Christian community of Jerusalem literally fled to the hills just before the Romans razed the city to the ground. That may have been a community of 144,000, we dont know. Im just proposing a different interpretation.
So are you trying to say that those 144000 (if that's how many there were) may have been the same as those mentioned in Revelation?

I don't think its possible because the Bible says the 144000 will come about during the tribulation and we're obviously not in the tribulation.
 
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bratchaman

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Underdog77 said:
So are you trying to say that those 144000 (if that's how many there were) may have been the same as those mentioned in Revelation?

I don't think its possible because the Bible says the 144000 will come about during the tribulation and we're obviously not in the tribulation.
I'm not sure how anyone but God can say if we are in the tribulation or not.
 
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All4one

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The 144,000 will be Jewish and it will be 12,000 from each tribe as stated in revelation. The thing we must be careful with here is becoming stuck on Revelation. When I read it through it made me shake at God power and I could feel him in my bones. Many look at revelation though and focus so hard on what the future holds that the present time frame smacks them in the face. I noticed those who study the bible code are so stuck in figuring out what the future holds that they dont live for the present but the future and when given time to reflect will miss Gods ultimate will. The bible code is awesome but like I said it is all in percieving. Satan wants to use what God has given us to curse us. The blurry future comes into focus when we take it a step at a time.

In love,
All4one:clap:
 
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