Revelation Chapter One - The Message, the Church, the Seven Golden Candlesticks, The Seven Churches

biblelesson

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REVELATION Chapter One - The Message, the Church, Seven Golden Candlesticks, the Seven Churches

Revelation 1:11, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven church’s which are in Asia; Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”

Christ’s message and command in Revelation 1:11 was sent and signified to John by an angel, Revelation 1:1, while John was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, Revelation 1:10.

I want to break down chapter one of Revelation for a good understanding of who is bringing this message to John, who the seven stars are, who the seven golden candlesticks are and what they represent, and who the seven churches are – then and today.

Revelation 1:1, the book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus, which God gave to Jesus Christ to show unto his servants. And Jesus SENT and SIGNIFIED it by his angle unto John.

Revelation 1:2, explains that John is God’s servant who bares record of the word of God, the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the things he saw.

There is a hierarchy, and an order of things in the Kingdom of God. The revelation message, that is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, trickled downward: from God to Jesus, from Jesus to the angel, then from the angel to the servant of Jesus Christ on earth, John.

In Revelation 1:4-5, John provides several acknowledgements as to those who the revelation message is for, and who the revelation message is from. First he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is for: the seven churches. Then he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is from: Jesus and the seven spirits before Christ throne. These seven spirits are also the seven stars in Jesus right hand, Revelation 1:16. The seven sprits and seven stars are one in the same and are the angels of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20.

Understanding the hierarchy, and who the message is from and who the message is for will help us to understand, 1) who gave the Revelation message to the angel that brought the message to John, and 2) what is the significance of the seven churches who the message is for.

Who’s bringing the message to John?

There is only one angel that brings Christ’s message to John. Revelation 1:1 says, and he (Christ), sent and signified it (The Revelation of Jesus Christ) by his angel unto his servant John. However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20. The seven stars are angles that received the Revelation message from Christ in heaven; and gives Christ’s message regarding the seven churches to the angel who is sent to John.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day and heard a great voice, as of a trumpet. He heard this great voice speaking to him, saying I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. He heard this voice instruct him to write what he sees in a book, and send it to the seven Churches in Asia, Revelation 1:10. So the entire book of Revelation is to be sent to the seven churches.

In Revelation 1:13, when John turned to see the voice he saw seven golden candlesticks, which are the seven church’s, Revelation 1:20. He also saw one like unto the Son of Man, Christ. And Christ also had in his right hand seven stars, Rev 1:16, which the stars are the angels of the seven churches.

The angel that brought the message to John acknowledges the seven angels of each of the seven churches in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3. The angle that is sent to John, acknowledges out of respect, the seven angels, that is, the seven stars, who are in Christ right hand. The first church acknowledged is Ephesus. Revelation 2:1, ”Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write…” The angle sent to John first acknowledges the angel of the Church of Ephesus, and then proceeds to tell John to write what the angel in Christ right hand says. What the angle says to John is the message he received from the angel of the Church of Ephesus, who received it from Christ. As the angle that is communicating with John introduces each of the stars (angels) over a particular church, he continues his respect and acknowledgement of each angle just before he tells John to write the message that was relayed to him from the other angels. The acknowledgements are in Revelation 2:1, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 2:12, Revelation 2:18, Revelation 3:1, Revelation 3:7, and Revelation 3:14.


So, the message to the seven churches is from God to Christ. Then from Christ to the seven angels. Then from the seven angels to the angel sent from heaven to John.


The Seven Churches

The seven churches were formed in the same geographical location of Apostle Pauls’ birth, Asia Minor, now called Turkey, which is the spiritual foundation of the temple of God on earth. The first church that was established by Paul, was Ephesus. The other six churches came later. All seven churches make up the seven golden candlesticks which is where the gospel and the body of Christ was established. The light of the gospel spread from these seven churches and that light continues to spread throughout all the world today and will continue until Christ returns.

Asia Minor, where the seven churches were formed, is where the gospel spread from mightily, Acts. 19. Christ established literal churches to bring the church (believers) under, and he appointed angels over each church. It does not matter how many years or centuries, or generation go by, all those who come to Christ based on the gospel, that is the saints, fall under these churches, which were established over two thousand years ago, and thus are called the Church of Christ.

Although there were problems that Christ addressed throughout the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3, it does not change the fact that the seven churches were established by Christ to be the seven golden candlesticks to bring the light of Christ to the world, which is after the same patter as the seven golden candlesticks in the temple mount under Moses, Exodus 25:37-40, which stayed lit continually.

Seven Golden Candlesticks, the temple of God, and the light of the gospel

Each church represents a golden candlestick, and those seven churches, or those seven golden candlesticks are in the midst of the body of Christ, the saints, who are called the Church. Because the saints make up the Church, being of one Spirit, one Lord, one God, they are all of one body, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14. The totality of the saints, which make up the Church, is the temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, and in the midst of the temple are the seven golden candlesticks, the seven churches, whose light of the gospel never goes out.

2 Corinthians 6:16 says, “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God dwelt in the Holy of Holies in the temple under the Old Testament, where the priest would come behind the veil once a year to offer sacrifices for the sins of Israel. At the exact time Christ died on the cross, the temple’s veil was rent, Matthew 27:50-51. The renting of the veil after Christ’s death on the cross indicated that there would be no more temple sacrifices for the sins of the people of Israel, and that God would no longer communicated with the Levite Priests on their behalf because now the testator, Jesus Christ, has died, and upon the death of the testator, there is now brought in a new testament, Hebrews 9:16, says, “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator, 17, “For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”

In order for God to communicate with man there must be a temple. In the old temple under the Old Testament, there were seven golden candlesticks that were lit continually. And because now the physical temple under the Old Testament ended at the death of Christ on the cross, how would God continue to communicate with man on earth? The seven churches are the seven golden candlesticks in the midst of the temple of God, which is now the Church, which brings light to the world. The Church is comprised of all saints, which all are one body, having one Spirit, one Lord, one God, one Father, one faith, and one baptism, Ephesians. 4:4-6.

Although the churches in Asia Minor no longer physically exist, their light is still lit because the gospel message preached from those seven churches, which are the seven golden candlesticks, over 2000 years ago, light the way of the saints, who are the temple of God, and that light, the light of Christ, spreads throughout the world, in the hearts of men and stays lit continually for the gospel to be preached throughout the world converting souls: Matthew 5:14-16, “Ye are the light of the world. A city that is on an hill cannot be hid, Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” 2 Corinthians 4:6, “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts…,” 2 Corinthians 4:4, “…Lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them,” Ephesians 5:8, “…but now are ye light in the Lord,” Ephesians 5:14, …”Awake thou that sleepiest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light...” Colossians 1:12, “Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light,” 2 Peter 2:9, …”But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light…”
 
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eleos1954

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REVELATION Chapter One - The Message, the Church, Seven Golden Candlesticks, the Seven Churches

Revelation 1:11, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven church’s which are in Asia; Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”

Christ’s message and command in Revelation 1:11 was sent and signified to John by an angel, Revelation 1:1, while John was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, Revelation 1:10.

I want to break down chapter one of Revelation for a good understanding of who is bringing this message to John, who the seven stars are, who the seven golden candlesticks are and what they represent, and who the seven churches are – then and today.

Revelation 1:1, the book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus, which God gave to Jesus Christ to show unto his servants. And Jesus SENT and SIGNIFIED it by his angle unto John.

Revelation 1:2, explains that John is God’s servant who bares record of the word of God, the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the things he saw.

There is a hierarchy, and an order of things in the Kingdom of God. The revelation message, that is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, trickled downward: from God to Jesus, from Jesus to the angel, then from the angel to the servant of Jesus Christ on earth, John.

In Revelation 1:4-5, John provides several acknowledgements as to those who the revelation message is for, and who the revelation message is from. First he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is for: the seven churches. Then he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is from: Jesus and the seven spirits before Christ throne. These seven spirits are also the seven stars in Jesus right hand, Revelation 1:16. The seven sprits and seven stars are one in the same and are the angels of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20.

Understanding the hierarchy, and who the message is from and who the message is for will help us to understand, 1) who gave the Revelation message to the angel that brought the message to John, and 2) what is the significance of the seven churches who the message is for.

Who’s bringing the message to John?

There is only one angel that brings Christ’s message to John. Revelation 1:1 says, and he (Christ), sent and signified it (The Revelation of Jesus Christ) by his angel unto his servant John. However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20. The seven stars are angles that received the Revelation message from Christ in heaven; and gives Christ’s message regarding the seven churches to the angel who is sent to John.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day and heard a great voice, as of a trumpet. He heard this great voice speaking to him, saying I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. He heard this voice instruct him to write what he sees in a book, and send it to the seven Churches in Asia, Revelation 1:10. So the entire book of Revelation is to be sent to the seven churches.

In Revelation 1:13, when John turned to see the voice he saw seven golden candlesticks, which are the seven church’s, Revelation 1:20. He also saw one like unto the Son of Man, Christ. And Christ also had in his right hand seven stars, Rev 1:16, which the stars are the angels of the seven churches.

The angel that brought the message to John acknowledges the seven angels of each of the seven churches in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3. The angle that is sent to John, acknowledges out of respect, the seven angels, that is, the seven stars, who are in Christ right hand. The first church acknowledged is Ephesus. Revelation 2:1, ”Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write…” The angle sent to John first acknowledges the angel of the Church of Ephesus, and then proceeds to tell John to write what the angel in Christ right hand says. What the angle says to John is the message he received from the angel of the Church of Ephesus, who received it from Christ. As the angle that is communicating with John introduces each of the stars (angels) over a particular church, he continues his respect and acknowledgement of each angle just before he tells John to write the message that was relayed to him from the other angels. The acknowledgements are in Revelation 2:1, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 2:12, Revelation 2:18, Revelation 3:1, Revelation 3:7, and Revelation 3:14.


So, the message to the seven churches is from God to Christ. Then from Christ to the seven angels. Then from the seven angels to the angel sent from heaven to John.


The Seven Churches

The seven churches were formed in the same geographical location of Apostle Pauls’ birth, Asia Minor, now called Turkey, which is the spiritual foundation of the temple of God on earth. The first church that was established by Paul, was Ephesus. The other six churches came later. All seven churches make up the seven golden candlesticks which is where the gospel and the body of Christ was established. The light of the gospel spread from these seven churches and that light continues to spread throughout all the world today and will continue until Christ returns.

Asia Minor, where the seven churches were formed, is where the gospel spread from mightily, Acts. 19. Christ established literal churches to bring the church (believers) under, and he appointed angels over each church. It does not matter how many years or centuries, or generation go by, all those who come to Christ based on the gospel, that is the saints, fall under these churches, which were established over two thousand years ago, and thus are called the Church of Christ.

Although there were problems that Christ addressed throughout the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3, it does not change the fact that the seven churches were established by Christ to be the seven golden candlesticks to bring the light of Christ to the world, which is after the same patter as the seven golden candlesticks in the temple mount under Moses, Exodus 25:37-40, which stayed lit continually.

Seven Golden Candlesticks, the temple of God, and the light of the gospel

Each church represents a golden candlestick, and those seven churches, or those seven golden candlesticks are in the midst of the body of Christ, the saints, who are called the Church. Because the saints make up the Church, being of one Spirit, one Lord, one God, they are all of one body, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14. The totality of the saints, which make up the Church, is the temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, and in the midst of the temple are the seven golden candlesticks, the seven churches, whose light of the gospel never goes out.

2 Corinthians 6:16 says, “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God dwelt in the Holy of Holies in the temple under the Old Testament, where the priest would come behind the veil once a year to offer sacrifices for the sins of Israel. At the exact time Christ died on the cross, the temple’s veil was rent, Matthew 27:50-51. The renting of the veil after Christ’s death on the cross indicated that there would be no more temple sacrifices for the sins of the people of Israel, and that God would no longer communicated with the Levite Priests on their behalf because now the testator, Jesus Christ, has died, and upon the death of the testator, there is now brought in a new testament, Hebrews 9:16, says, “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator, 17, “For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”

In order for God to communicate with man there must be a temple. In the old temple under the Old Testament, there were seven golden candlesticks that were lit continually. And because now the physical temple under the Old Testament ended at the death of Christ on the cross, how would God continue to communicate with man on earth? The seven churches are the seven golden candlesticks in the midst of the temple of God, which is now the Church, which brings light to the world. The Church is comprised of all saints, which all are one body, having one Spirit, one Lord, one God, one Father, one faith, and one baptism, Ephesians. 4:4-6.

Although the churches in Asia Minor no longer physically exist, their light is still lit because the gospel message preached from those seven churches, which are the seven golden candlesticks, over 2000 years ago, light the way of the saints, who are the temple of God, and that light, the light of Christ, spreads throughout the world, in the hearts of men and stays lit continually for the gospel to be preached throughout the world converting souls: Matthew 5:14-16, “Ye are the light of the world. A city that is on an hill cannot be hid, Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” 2 Corinthians 4:6, “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts…,” 2 Corinthians 4:4, “…Lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them,” Ephesians 5:8, “…but now are ye light in the Lord,” Ephesians 5:14, …”Awake thou that sleepiest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light...” Colossians 1:12, “Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light,” 2 Peter 2:9, …”But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light…”
In order for God to communicate with man there must be a temple.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
King James Version


16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?​

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
 
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biblelesson

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1 Corinthians 3:16-17

King James Version

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?​

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Yes, and so 1 Peter 2:5 is referring to us as being the temple of God relating to the Mosaic priesthood and sacrifices and tells us that we are a holy priesthood and to offer spiritual sacrifice.
 
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eleos1954

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Yes, and so 1 Peter 2:5 is referring to us as being the temple of God relating to the Mosaic priesthood and sacrifices and tells us that we are a holy priesthood and to offer spiritual sacrifice.
Spiritual sacrifices are any words or deeds motivated by a desire to glorify God alone.
 
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Trivalee

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REVELATION Chapter One - The Message, the Church, Seven Golden Candlesticks, the Seven Churches

Revelation 1:11, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven church’s which are in Asia; Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”

Christ’s message and command in Revelation 1:11 was sent and signified to John by an angel, Revelation 1:1, while John was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, Revelation 1:10.

I want to break down chapter one of Revelation for a good understanding of who is bringing this message to John, who the seven stars are, who the seven golden candlesticks are and what they represent, and who the seven churches are – then and today.

Revelation 1:1, the book of Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus, which God gave to Jesus Christ to show unto his servants. And Jesus SENT and SIGNIFIED it by his angle unto John.

Revelation 1:2, explains that John is God’s servant who bares record of the word of God, the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the things he saw.

There is a hierarchy, and an order of things in the Kingdom of God. The revelation message, that is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, trickled downward: from God to Jesus, from Jesus to the angel, then from the angel to the servant of Jesus Christ on earth, John.

In Revelation 1:4-5, John provides several acknowledgements as to those who the revelation message is for, and who the revelation message is from. First he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is for: the seven churches. Then he acknowledges those who the Revelation message is from: Jesus and the seven spirits before Christ throne. These seven spirits are also the seven stars in Jesus right hand, Revelation 1:16. The seven sprits and seven stars are one in the same and are the angels of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20.

Understanding the hierarchy, and who the message is from and who the message is for will help us to understand, 1) who gave the Revelation message to the angel that brought the message to John, and 2) what is the significance of the seven churches who the message is for.

Who’s bringing the message to John?

There is only one angel that brings Christ’s message to John. Revelation 1:1 says, and he (Christ), sent and signified it (The Revelation of Jesus Christ) by his angel unto his servant John. However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20. The seven stars are angles that received the Revelation message from Christ in heaven; and gives Christ’s message regarding the seven churches to the angel who is sent to John.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day and heard a great voice, as of a trumpet. He heard this great voice speaking to him, saying I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. He heard this voice instruct him to write what he sees in a book, and send it to the seven Churches in Asia, Revelation 1:10. So the entire book of Revelation is to be sent to the seven churches.

In Revelation 1:13, when John turned to see the voice he saw seven golden candlesticks, which are the seven church’s, Revelation 1:20. He also saw one like unto the Son of Man, Christ. And Christ also had in his right hand seven stars, Rev 1:16, which the stars are the angels of the seven churches.

The angel that brought the message to John acknowledges the seven angels of each of the seven churches in Revelation Chapter 2 and 3. The angle that is sent to John, acknowledges out of respect, the seven angels, that is, the seven stars, who are in Christ right hand. The first church acknowledged is Ephesus. Revelation 2:1, ”Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write…” The angle sent to John first acknowledges the angel of the Church of Ephesus, and then proceeds to tell John to write what the angel in Christ right hand says. What the angle says to John is the message he received from the angel of the Church of Ephesus, who received it from Christ. As the angle that is communicating with John introduces each of the stars (angels) over a particular church, he continues his respect and acknowledgement of each angle just before he tells John to write the message that was relayed to him from the other angels. The acknowledgements are in Revelation 2:1, Revelation 2:8, Revelation 2:12, Revelation 2:18, Revelation 3:1, Revelation 3:7, and Revelation 3:14.


So, the message to the seven churches is from God to Christ. Then from Christ to the seven angels. Then from the seven angels to the angel sent from heaven to John.
I've read your fine piece and agree with you. But I have to correct the illusion that the message was given to John by a created angel. Such an interpretation is wrong. My rebuttal is about your statement highlighted in red above. Prophecies about eschatology is invariably rich in allegory, but with diligence and discernment, the meaning is understood.

The message was given by no other than Jesus Christ himself:
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
  • Note: As you correctly pointed out that the seven stars are the angels appointed over the seven churches, it is, therefore, illogical to posit that another angel held them in his hand because not even the Archangels Michael or Gabriel can do that.
  • Secondly, a shard two-edged sword (Rev 19:15), which is the word of God, is in his mouth. It is unequivocally Jesus Christ and not an angel.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

  • Notice that he identified himself as the 'First and the last'
  • The One that lived and died and is alive forevermore.
  • The One with the keys of hell and death.
Hopefully, you will agree that it was the Lord that to spoke to John.
 
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biblelesson

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I've read your fine piece and agree with you. But I have to correct the illusion that the message was given to John by a created angel. Such an interpretation is wrong. My rebuttal is about your statement highlighted in red above. Prophecies about eschatology is invariably rich in allegory, but with diligence and discernment, the meaning is understood.

The message was given by no other than Jesus Christ himself:
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
  • Note: As you correctly pointed out that the seven stars are the angels appointed over the seven churches, it is, therefore, illogical to posit that another angel held them in his hand because not even the Archangels Michael or Gabriel can do that.
  • Secondly, a shard two-edged sword (Rev 19:15), which is the word of God, is in his mouth. It is unequivocally Jesus Christ and not an angel.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

  • Notice that he identified himself as the 'First and the last'
  • The One that lived and died and is alive forevermore.
  • The One with the keys of hell and death.
Hopefully, you will agree that it was the Lord that to spoke to John.
I think you are pointing out that the message was from Christ. I absolutely agree, and I think I said that. The message may have gotten mixed up because I was trying to show the hierarchy.

But this is one of my statements: “The angle sent to John first acknowledges the angel of the Church of Ephesus, and then proceeds to tell John to write what the angel in Christ right hand says. What the angle says to John is the message he received from the angel of the Church of Ephesus, who received it from Christ.”

Maybe it’s the way I phrased it. Thank you for pointed that out.
 
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Trivalee

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I think you are pointing out that the message was from Christ. I absolutely agree, and I think I said that. The message may have gotten mixed up because I was trying to show the hierarchy.

But this is one of my statements: “The angle sent to John first acknowledges the angel of the Church of Ephesus, and then proceeds to tell John to write what the angel in Christ right hand says. What the angle says to John is the message he received from the angel of the Church of Ephesus, who received it from Christ.”

Maybe it’s the way I phrased it. Thank you for pointed that out.
Let me clarify, brother; I pointed out that Christ gave the message directly to John. It wasn't through an angel as a messenger. If you read my initial post, you'll find I provided sufficient citations to back my position.
 
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biblelesson

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Let me clarify, brother; I pointed out that Christ gave the message directly to John. It wasn't through an angel as a messenger. If you read my initial post, you'll find I provided sufficient citations to back my position.
I’m a sister!

I see what you are saying, but there had to be a messenger angle sent to John. Because messenger angels are always used to send messages from God to man. I don’t see where that protocol changed in this instance. In fact Revelation says an angel was sent to John and signified the message of Christ, Revelation 1:1 KJV.

Signified means a concept or meaning as distinguished from the sign through which it is communicated.

John was in the Spirit on the Lords day, Revelation 1:10 KJV. The angel that was sent to John signified the message by putting John in the Spirit to be able to communicate to John Christ’s message. While in the Spirit, Christ spoke to John. Other instances it was the angle sent to John relaying Christ’s message, although it was really Christ speaking. Such as in Revelation 2:1, the angel sent to John acknowledges the angle over the church of Ephesus who is in Christ right hand, and tells John to write. The angle sent to John proceeds to tell John Christ’s message that he received from the angel over the church of Ephesus who is in Christ’s right hand.

You said: “Note: As you correctly pointed out that the seven stars are the angels appointed over the seven churches, it is, therefore, illogical to posit that another angel held them in his hand because not even the Archangels Michael or Gabriel can do that.”

I never said another angel held the seven stars in his hand.

This is what I said: “However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20. The seven stars are angles that received the Revelation message from Christ in heaven; and gives Christ’s message regarding the seven churches to the angel who is sent to John.”

What my message says is the seven angels are in Christ right hand, and they are the ones who communicate Christ message to the angle sent to John. I never said another angle held the seven angels in their right hand, such as Gabriel or Michael.

Because there is a hierarchy, and because it’s more than one angle involved, it can get a little difficult to explain.
 
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Marilyn C

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This is what I said: “However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20.
Just a point here biblelesson, the 7 spirits before Christ`s throne is the seven-fold Spirit of God. (Isa. 11: 2 - 4).
 
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biblelesson

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Just a point here biblelesson, the 7 spirits before Christ`s throne is the seven-fold Spirit of God. (Isa. 11: 2 - 4).
I’ve seen commentary that say that the seven spirits before Christ throne are the seven fold Spirits of God, but I can’t see how that’s accurate. Isaiah 11:2-4 is foretelling Jesus and his walk in the Spirit while on earth while in the likeness of man. In Isaiah, these are not seven individual Spirits, but one - the Holy Spirit possessing these attributes, His seven fold activity, that Jesus posses in the fullness of.

We as Christians receive the same Spirit when we become believers possessing the same blessings from the Holy Spirit.
 
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I’ve seen commentary that say that the seven spirits before Christ throne are the seven fold Spirits of God, but I can’t see how that’s accurate. Isaiah 11:2-4 is foretelling Jesus and his walk in the Spirit while on earth while in the likeness of man. In Isaiah, these are not seven individual Spirits, but one - the Holy Spirit possessing these attributes, His seven fold activity, that Jesus posses in the fullness of.

We as Christians receive the same Spirit when we become believers possessing the same blessings from the Holy Spirit.
Glad you were told about the seven-fold Spirit of God. There is only ONE Holy Spirit and He is described in Isa. 11: 2 - 4 as we both said.
 
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I’m a sister!

I see what you are saying, but there had to be a messenger angle sent to John. Because messenger angels are always used to send messages from God to man. I don’t see where that protocol changed in this instance. In fact Revelation says an angel was sent to John and signified the message of Christ, Revelation 1:1 KJV.

Signified means a concept or meaning as distinguished from the sign through which it is communicated.

John was in the Spirit on the Lords day, Revelation 1:10 KJV. The angel that was sent to John signified the message by putting John in the Spirit to be able to communicate to John Christ’s message. While in the Spirit, Christ spoke to John. Other instances it was the angle sent to John relaying Christ’s message, although it was really Christ speaking. Such as in Revelation 2:1, the angel sent to John acknowledges the angle over the church of Ephesus who is in Christ right hand, and tells John to write. The angle sent to John proceeds to tell John Christ’s message that he received from the angel over the church of Ephesus who is in Christ’s right hand.

You said: “Note: As you correctly pointed out that the seven stars are the angels appointed over the seven churches, it is, therefore, illogical to posit that another angel held them in his hand because not even the Archangels Michael or Gabriel can do that.”

I never said another angel held the seven stars in his hand.

This is what I said: “However, there are seven Spirits who are before Christ’s throne, Revelation 1:4. These seven Spirits are the seven stars in Christ right hand, Revelation 1:16, who are the angles of the seven churches, Revelation 1:20. The seven stars are angles that received the Revelation message from Christ in heaven; and gives Christ’s message regarding the seven churches to the angel who is sent to John.”

What my message says is the seven angels are in Christ right hand, and they are the ones who communicate Christ message to the angle sent to John. I never said another angle held the seven angels in their right hand, such as Gabriel or Michael.

Because there is a hierarchy, and because it’s more than one angle involved, it can get a little difficult to explain.
First, my apologies for addressing you as a brother.

Second, I have had to read Rev 1 a few more times, hoping I could find something to support your reasoning, but I found nothing. I have never once read in scripture where an angel goes through another angel to deliver a divine message to someone. When two angels came to the prophet Daniel (Dan 12), one spoke while the other explained the meaning to Daniel.

It would help if you could address Rev 1:16-18 as I cited before, and explain why an angel would tell John that "He is the first and the last and the One that lived and was dead and behold, still alive". And which angel has seven stars (which you and I agree are angels) in his right hand and a two edged sword in his mouth?
 
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Happygolucky?

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When you talk about Who is on the throne don’t you see that as being the Father? The Lord God Almighty?

I see a picture of the Trinity- the Father, The Spirit, and the Son

Revelation 1:4

4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who [c]is to come, AND from the [d]seven spirits who are before His throne,5AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness

There appear to be 3 separate and distinct persons above. Him who was, is, and is to come..AND, the 7 Spirits….AND Jesus

I see the one upon the Throne as being God the Father




Revelation 4:2-9

2Immediately I was in the [a]Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and someone was sitting on the throne. 3And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. 4Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.

The Throne and Worship of the Creator
5Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are [c]the seven spirits of God; 6and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the [d]center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like a calf, the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night [e]they do not cease to say,
“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY IS THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, who was and who is and who [f]is to come.” 9And when the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,


Above we can see the Father sits on the throne, with the 7 Lamps of Fire representing the 7 Spirits of the Lord, which are before the throne. It is the Father on the throne above who is being described as the one who was, is, and is to come.

Revelation 1:8

8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [g]is to come, the Almighty.”

The Almighty Father, I believe is being described above.

Revelation 5:6-7

6And I saw [c]between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are [d]the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.


Again we see 3 separate and distinct Persons. The one on the throne, the Almighty Father. The Lamb, who receives the scroll from Him, who sits upon the throne (Father). And the 7 eyes upon the Lamb, which are the 7 Spirits of the Lord, which range to and fro, throughout the earth.

Yes Jesus is eternal, however, in Revelation 1:4-8, I see the Father, Spirit, and Son. It is the Father I see upon His throne
 
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Marilyn C

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When you talk about Who is on the throne don’t you see that as being the Father? The Lord God Almighty?

I see a picture of the Trinity- the Father, The Spirit, and the Son

Revelation 1:4

4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who [c]is to come, AND from the [d]seven spirits who are before His throne,5AND from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness

There appear to be 3 separate and distinct persons above. Him who was, is, and is to come..AND, the 7 Spirits….AND Jesus

I see the one upon the Throne as being God the Father




Revelation 4:2-9

2Immediately I was in the [a]Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and someone was sitting on the throne. 3And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. 4Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.

The Throne and Worship of the Creator
5Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are [c]the seven spirits of God; 6and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the [d]center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like a calf, the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night [e]they do not cease to say,
“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY IS THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, who was and who is and who [f]is to come.” 9And when the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever,


Above we can see the Father sits on the throne, with the 7 Lamps of Fire representing the 7 Spirits of the Lord, which are before the throne. It is the Father on the throne above who is being described as the one who was, is, and is to come.

Revelation 1:8

8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who [g]is to come, the Almighty.”

The Almighty Father, I believe is being described above.

Revelation 5:6-7

6And I saw [c]between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are [d]the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.


Again we see 3 separate and distinct Persons. The one on the throne, the Almighty Father. The Lamb, who receives the scroll from Him, who sits upon the throne (Father). And the 7 eyes upon the Lamb, which are the 7 Spirits of the Lord, which range to and fro, throughout the earth.

Yes Jesus is eternal, however, in Revelation 1:4-8, I see the Father, Spirit, and Son. It is the Father I see upon His throne
Hi Happy...

That throne has been `set up.` it is the Father who sets it up for His Son. `Set up, `means giving the authority.

`I (Father) have SET my King on my holy hill of mount Zion. `(Ps. 2: 6)

And that is the heavenly mount Zion, the symbol of God`s authority in the third heaven, (the angelic realm). The details of the one on the throne reveal that it is the worthy one, the Lord in His glorified body yet still God.

Christ on His Own Throne.

Let us now look closer at the One on this throne -the High Priest and King. The gem stones are given to reveal more understanding to us.


The Gem Stones.

`And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)

Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer. (The Concise English Dictionary)


Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.


The Sardius gem stone
was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.


The Emerald gem stone
is also on the High Priest`s breastplate, and was for the tribe of Reuben. He was the first born of Jacob, and his heir. To the heir would be given three portions - the birthright, (double blessing), the priesthood and the kingdom.


`and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.` (Rev. 4: 3)


The `One` on the throne then is the High Priest of Heaven, the conqueror, the Sovereign Ruler and Heir of all the Father`s estates.



The Covenant.


`and there was a rainbow around the throne,...` (Rev. 4: 3)

The `rainbow` is God`s sign for His covenant with man. A covenant is usually an agreement between parties which bind them to some specific course of action.


Why was there needed a `covenant?` Mankind had forfeited his right of dominion over the earth when he disobeyed God and let Satan rule. God however, planned before time began to send His Son to redeem man and bring about the restoration of all things. This is the covenant God made with man.


God knew that man could do nothing to bring this about, and thus the whole restoration will be by God. It is through Christ that God`s Covenant, God`s plan, is fulfilled because Christ Himself is the surety.


`God said, `I will give .....You (Jesus) as a covenant to the people...` (Isa.49: 8)
 
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biblelesson

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First, my apologies for addressing you as a brother.

Second, I have had to read Rev 1 a few more times, hoping I could find something to support your reasoning, but I found nothing. I have never once read in scripture where an angel goes through another angel to deliver a divine message to someone. When two angels came to the prophet Daniel (Dan 12), one spoke while the other explained the meaning to Daniel.

It would help if you could address Rev 1:16-18 as I cited before, and explain why an angel would tell John that "He is the first and the last and the One that lived and was dead and behold, still alive". And which angel has seven stars (which you and I agree are angels) in his right hand and a two edged sword in his mouth?
Thanks for the apology, it’s no problem

So, an angel did not tell John “I am the first and the last…”. Jesus spoke directly to John while John was in the Spirit.

So, In order for John to have receive the Revelation message he had to be put in the Spirit. John was taken to heaven; he could not go from the earthly realm to a spiritual realm on his own. A messenger angel was sent to John and put him In the Spirit so that John could receive the message from heaven, from Christ.

While John was in the Spirit, Jesus spoke to John directly, in Revelation 1:11 KJV, Jesus touched John and spoke to him in Revelation 1:17-20 KJV. Jesus told John to write the things which he had seen.

Here is where I think the issue is regarding the seven angels in Christ right hand relaying Christ’s messenger to the messenger angle that was sent to John. So, Revelation 1:20 KJV, Jesus tells John who the seven stars are and who the seven candlesticks are.

But, in Revelation 2:1-29 KJV, Revelation 3:1-22 KJV, John is being told to write the message from each of the seven angles in Christ’s hand to the seven churches. These seven angels are relaying the message they received from Christ to the angle sent to John.

You are saying this cannot be the case. You said: “I have never once read in scripture where an angel goes through another angel to deliver a divine message to someone. When two angels came to the prophet Daniel (Dan 12), one spoke while the other explained the meaning to Daniel.”

Consider why this took place this way. First the angels in Christ right hand are not messenger angels. They were not sent to John. They were appointed by Christ to be the angles of the seven churches.

It’s like saying the king of a land appoints Regions over a particular city, like a mayor. Any message received from one of cities comes comes from the Region. That’s why the messenger angle sent to John acknowledges each of the seven angel over a church before he tells John to write. The messenger angle sent to John is showing respect to those seven angels over the seven churches who are in heaven, in Christ’s right hand.

The message is in fact from Christ, but relayed by the angels over the churches who are in charge of the churches. Jesus holds the seven stars in His right hand therefore he holds the Church in his right hand. The physical seven churches no longer exist in Asia Minor, but they are reprinted in heaven spiritually by the seven candlesticks with angels over them; the continuing preaching of the gospel after the physical churches ended, is spiritually represented by the seven candlesticks in heaven whose light of the gospel never goes out.

There are many instances in the book of Revelation where Christ was talking to John. Other instances an angel is talking to John in heaven. During one of John’s visions, an angel directed John to eat the little book. These encounters and visions are not the same as Daniel 12.
 
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Happygolucky?

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Hi Happy...

That throne has been `set up.` it is the Father who sets it up for His Son. `Set up, `means giving the authority.

`I (Father) have SET my King on my holy hill of mount Zion. `(Ps. 2: 6)

And that is the heavenly mount Zion, the symbol of God`s authority in the third heaven, (the angelic realm). The details of the one on the throne reveal that it is the worthy one, the Lord in His glorified body yet still God.

Christ on His Own Throne.

Let us now look closer at the One on this throne -the High Priest and King. The gem stones are given to reveal more understanding to us.


The Gem Stones.

`And he who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius in appearance;...` (Rev. 4: 3)

The Jasper gem stone was the last on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Naphtali whose name means to prevail, to conquer - `I have prevailed.` (Gen. 30: 8)

Prevail – to gain the victory, to conquer. (The Concise English Dictionary)


Christ was the last Adam and He prevailed over the world, the flesh and the devil. He has secured the supreme victory over the greatest foe.


The Sardius gem stone
was the first on the High Priest`s breastplate. It stood for the tribe of Judah. The prophetic word reveals that He would be the ruler over the other tribes. (Gen. 49: 8 - 12) The Hebrew `yadah,` (Judah) means to use the hand, indicating power and dominion.


The Emerald gem stone
is also on the High Priest`s breastplate, and was for the tribe of Reuben. He was the first born of Jacob, and his heir. To the heir would be given three portions - the birthright, (double blessing), the priesthood and the kingdom.


`and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald.` (Rev. 4: 3)


The `One` on the throne then is the High Priest of Heaven, the conqueror, the Sovereign Ruler and Heir of all the Father`s estates.



The Covenant.


`and there was a rainbow around the throne,...` (Rev. 4: 3)

The `rainbow` is God`s sign for His covenant with man. A covenant is usually an agreement between parties which bind them to some specific course of action.


Why was there needed a `covenant?` Mankind had forfeited his right of dominion over the earth when he disobeyed God and let Satan rule. God however, planned before time began to send His Son to redeem man and bring about the restoration of all things. This is the covenant God made with man.


God knew that man could do nothing to bring this about, and thus the whole restoration will be by God. It is through Christ that God`s Covenant, God`s plan, is fulfilled because Christ Himself is the surety.


`God said, `I will give .....You (Jesus) as a covenant to the people...` (Isa.49: 8)


So then is it your opinion that it is Jesus who is sitting on the throne in Revelation 1,4 and 5?
 
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Marilyn C

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So then is it your opinion that it is Jesus who is sitting on the throne in Revelation 1,4 and 5?
I don`t see a throne in Rev. 1, however I think you mean is it Jesus, and yes. And yes, in Rev. 4, I see that the Father has SET up this authority, (symbolic throne) and in Rev. 5 we see a pictorial representation of that fact. The Son is God, yet He also has a glorified body. So, this is what we see - the Godhead, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and then the Lord in His glorified body receiving the judgment scroll.

`Him who sat on the throne,` doesn`t give the best picture, but rather He who has given the authority of that throne.....

Note: God the Father does not have a right hand, it is symbolic. Also, HIS throne, authority is far beyond the angelic realm.
 
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Happygolucky?

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I don`t see a throne in Rev. 1, however I think you mean is it Jesus, and yes. And yes, in Rev. 4, I see that the Father has SET up this authority, (symbolic throne) and in Rev. 5 we see a pictorial representation of that fact. The Son is God, yet He also has a glorified body. So, this is what we see - the Godhead, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and then the Lord in His glorified body receiving the judgment scroll.

`Him who sat on the throne,` doesn`t give the best picture, but rather He who has given the authority of that throne.....

Note: God the Father does not have a right hand, it is symbolic. Also, HIS throne, authority is far beyond the angelic realm.

Ok because I see 2 separate and distinct persons.

Revelation 5:13

13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.”


Above, I see that There is the One on the throne, and also the Lamb.

Then also in Chapter 5, I don’t see the Lamb who is located before the throne, going over to Himself who is also at the same time on the throne and getting the scroll from Himself and opening it up. I see 2 separate and distinct persons.



Even in verse one we see that distinction between God and Jesus.in the first verse of Revelation

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave
Him.

And again in Revelation 21:22

I saw no [q]temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its [r]temple.

I could be wrong, it’s just how it appears to me. But I’ll have to reevaluate.
 
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Marilyn C

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Ok because I see 2 separate and distinct persons.

Revelation 5:13

13And I heard every created thing which is in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth, or on the sea, and all the things in them, saying,

“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion forever and ever.”


Above, I see that There is the One on the throne, and also the Lamb.

Then also in Chapter 5, I don’t see the Lamb who is located before the throne, going over to Himself who is also at the same time on the throne and getting the scroll from Himself and opening it up. I see 2 separate and distinct persons.



Even in verse one we see that distinction between God and Jesus.in the first verse of Revelation

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave
Him.

And again in Revelation 21:22

I saw no [q]temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its [r]temple.

I could be wrong, it’s just how it appears to me. But I’ll have to reevaluate.
Hi Happy,

Yes, you are right, there is one on the throne and the Lamb. And the Lamb is the glorified Son of God, while He is also part of the Godhead, the one on the throne. It is a pictorial representation of something our minds find hard to understand.

Look at 1 Tim. 6: 16 where it says that the Lord dwells `in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see...` That is the Lord in the Godhead, whereas in His glorified body we shall see Him. (1 John 3: 2)
 
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Hi Happy,

Yes, you are right, there is one on the throne and the Lamb. And the Lamb is the glorified Son of God, while He is also part of the Godhead, the one on the throne. It is a pictorial representation of something our minds find hard to understand.

Look at 1 Tim. 6: 16 where it says that the Lord dwells `in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see...` That is the Lord in the Godhead, whereas in His glorified body we shall see Him. (1 John 3: 2)

1 Timothy 6:16

I take that mean, that no man, humankind in the flesh can see Him. 1 John 3:2 says that WHEN He appears/returns, we shall be like Him, we will be changed, no longer as humankind, in the flesh, therefore we can see Him. If I remember, at that point (after chapter 3), John was in the spirit. He had, at least temporarily “shed the flesh” of humanity, so I don’t see that as applicable. He appears to see the great white throne judgement.
 
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