Futurist Only Rev 12 & Armageddon

[Timtofly]

-
​

The beast from the earth is the antichrist also known as the false prophet. Who brings worship to the beast from the sea also known as the king of the north.

The beast from the sea is human government. The mouth of human government is the FP. That is the only human mentioned in the entire chapter.

"And there was given unto him a mouth (one human steps forward to represent man, a charismatic FP) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he (FP) opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him (FP) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him (FP) over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

The FP is introduced and his character developed in these verses.


The next beast is Satan as he appears in a "human" form.

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A human comes from the sea. Satan comes from the pit, as later John points back to this verse as when Satan ascends out of the pit: Revelation 17:8

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The dragon in Revelation 12, the sea beast of Revelation 13, and the scarlet beast of Revelation 17 are the same 7 heads with Satan being one of those heads. This is the relationship over time of Satan and his involvement with mystery Babylon, as Babylon was the first and primary head and beast in it's own right.

The heads are human government over time, since Daniel 2. The 5th head represents the ten toes beast between Rome and the Reformation. The 6th head represents human government since the Reformation which has been an amalgamation of many nations and not one single world government. That is why it is mortally wounded. The church has prevented any one nation from controlling the entire earth as one. England was "christian" and blessed, but was not a one world empire. The United States has eclipsed England as a strong presence on the earth, but still not a one world government. The church has been a mountain that filled the whole earth, but also not a one world dictator. Even the church was prophesied in Daniel as a mountain that had held the 6th head in check, until the church is removed. That is when the 6th head will be seemingly healed, at the 6th Seal, Second Coming. "Mountain" in Revelation represents that which is in control.

Those heads are also kings, but not individual humans. Just the kings over time, since Babylon, all having a relationship with Jerusalem. Babylon destroyed Jerusalem. Persia restored Jerusalem. Greece desolated Jerusalem. Rome dominated Jerusalem. The ten toes allowed Jerusalem to be restored, under Muslim control. The 6th head fought over Jerusalem until a few years ago, when Israel finally gained back control. So yes, Jerusalem has played the harlot with every nation and religion of that scarlet beast.

The antichrist is the image brought to life, but always referred to as the beast by John as the image is not human either.

People who keep making up all these future humans are missing the reality of what Revelation is exactly revealing. Revelation is not supposed to reveal future humans, as that is all downplayed. This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Even though not explicit, it should be understood that Jesus will be on the earth from the 6th Seal to the 7th Trumpet, when He will be declared as the 7th Kingdom after the 6th Kingdom is removed. That being removed in name, because Jesus will be the only King of the entire world. At least what is left of humanity.

The Trumpets and Thunders cover the final harvest. Humanity is being removed from the earth. Some to eternal life, but the majority into the LOF. This is not the time the physically dead are judged from death and sheol. This is the time when what is left of currently over 8 billion humans, are being physically removed, after the church has been taken away at the 5th Seal.

Jesus is literally clearing house (the earth) in preparation for the 7th Kingdom, the one that covers the next thousand years, the Day of the Lord. This is Jesus sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, judging the sheep and the goats, people still physically alive on the earth. The wheat and tares are still people physically alive on the earth. They are not physically dead, nor the dead mentioned standing at the GWT Judgment after the Day of the Lord.

Just like the first time as Messiah with 12 disciples, the Second Coming as Prince involves the 144k disciples who surround Jesus like the original 12 in the first century. That should be evident as they are sealed on the earth between the 6th and 7th Seal. That is the start of the earthly ministry as King on the earth in Jerusalem.

Revelation 13 will only happen in conjunction with the 7th Trumpet at the end of the final harvest. Only after the 7th Trumpet will the FP even step forward with power and authority. Now he may be on the scene when the humans recover after the 6th Seal, but he will not have power and authority as many seem to describe the left behind scenario famous over the last 50 years. There is a human vacuum of power and authority as humanity is in chaos, starting from from the 6th Seal and throughout the Trumpets and Thunders.

But Jesus, all the angels, the 144k will all be on the earth and working with Him the whole time. This has been left out of all human interpretation and imagined future of the Revelation of Jesus as King. Humans have imagined everything, but the main point, which is the revealing of both God sitting on the GWT, and Jesus sitting in judgment in Jerusalem. Jesus is declared as the 7th Kingdom, else there cannot be an 8th Kingdom whatsoever. The 8th Kingdom is what Revelation 13 focuses on.

That is because the church has been dominated by post mill and amil thought that has declared the Second Coming as the ultimate end with not a single moment of time on earth post the Second Coming. That in conjunction with only a single future resurrection, even though the Cross was the last day physical resurrection of the entire body of redeemed souls from the OT. There is and will be more than one single resurrection.

 

[oikonomia]

The beast from the sea is human government. The mouth of human government is the FP. That is the only human mentioned in the entire chapter.

"And there was given unto him a mouth (one human steps forward to represent man, a charismatic FP) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he (FP) opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him (FP) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him (FP) over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

The beast is a man. For his number is the number of a man not of a group.

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred sixty-six. (Rev. 13:18)

We should therefore understand the beast as a man who is a head of a government. Surely, both are evil.
When this person is brought up from the sea and the abyss he has the name of an individual in Revelation chapter nine.
It says "HIS name is . . . ". It does not say "THEIR name is . . . "

They have a king over them, the angel of the abyss;
his name in Hebrew is Abaddon; and in Greek he has the name Apollyon. (Rev. 9:10,11)

Because of the structure of Revelation certain matters are visited a second time.
And the descent of the fallen Satan to summon up the beast out of the sea is the same matter
as the star fallen from heaven unlocking the abyss and releasing the locusts who have Antichrist as a king.

And the fifth angel trumpeted, and I saw a star out of heaven fallen to the earth, and to him was given the key of the pit of the abyss.
And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke went up out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit. (Rev. 9:1,2)

They have a king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon; and in Greek he has the name Apollyon. (v.11)

Compare:

Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time. (Rev. 12:12)

And he [the dragon Satan] stood on the sand of the sea. (Rev. 12:18)
And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads,
and on his horns ten diadems, and on his heads names of blasphemy. (13:1)

The "fallen" star with the key to the abyss is Satan.
And the dragon driven down from heaven is also Satan.

In chapter nine Satan releases demonic locusts from the abyss who have Antichrist from the same place as thier king.
In chapter twelve the same matter is repeated. Satan is driven down and summons up the beast (Abaddon, Apollyon the Destroyer, who is the Antichrist) from the sea.

A human comes from the sea. Satan comes from the pit, as later John points back to this verse as when Satan ascends out of the pit: Revelation 17:8

The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those who dwell on the earth, those whose names are not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life, will marvel when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will be present. (Rev. 17:8)

This is a man whose physical body is of temporary times in those days. But his soul and spirit are from the abyss.
It is Nero. In other words this Antichrist comes on the scene first as a good problem solver, extremely intelligent and good looking.
But he is assasinated. And by Satan operation he is resuscitated with the same body but the spirit and soul of a past Roman emporer
Ceasar Nero.

Yes, he will command a government. But he is an individual with a contemporary physical body slain and revived but
in reviving he possesses the soul of Nero.

You see Satan is not now in the abyss. He is not confined to the bottomless pit of the abyss until chapter 18.
And that is after Christ descends as another Angel whose light illuminates the whole earth.

After these things I saw another Angel coming down out of heaven,
having great authority; and the earth was illumined with His glory. (Rev. 18:1)

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold of the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1,2)

The Recovery Version and also Darby's New Translation capitalize "Angel" when "another Angel" probably refers to Christ.
Christ before incarnation was "the Angel of Jehovah" and God Himself (Gen. 22:11-12; Exo. 3:2-6; Judg. 6:11-24; Zech. 1:11-12; 2:8-11; 3:1-7).

I am not sure if Revelatio 20:1,2 refer to Christ. But surely it is either Christ or one of His angels to put the chain on
Satan and confine him for the first time in the abyss for a thousand years.

Other comments have to wait for latter.

 

[d taylor]

The beast from the sea is human government. The mouth of human government is the FP. That is the only human mentioned in the entire chapter.

"And there was given unto him a mouth (one human steps forward to represent man, a charismatic FP) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he (FP) opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him (FP) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him (FP) over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

The FP is introduced and his character developed in these verses.


The next beast is Satan as he appears in a "human" form.

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A human comes from the sea. Satan comes from the pit, as later John points back to this verse as when Satan ascends out of the pit: Revelation 17:8

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

The dragon in Revelation 12, the sea beast of Revelation 13, and the scarlet beast of Revelation 17 are the same 7 heads with Satan being one of those heads. This is the relationship over time of Satan and his involvement with mystery Babylon, as Babylon was the first and primary head and beast in it's own right.

The heads are human government over time, since Daniel 2. The 5th head represents the ten toes beast between Rome and the Reformation. The 6th head represents human government since the Reformation which has been an amalgamation of many nations and not one single world government. That is why it is mortally wounded. The church has prevented any one nation from controlling the entire earth as one. England was "christian" and blessed, but was not a one world empire. The United States has eclipsed England as a strong presence on the earth, but still not a one world government. The church has been a mountain that filled the whole earth, but also not a one world dictator. Even the church was prophesied in Daniel as a mountain that had held the 6th head in check, until the church is removed. That is when the 6th head will be seemingly healed, at the 6th Seal, Second Coming. "Mountain" in Revelation represents that which is in control.

Those heads are also kings, but not individual humans. Just the kings over time, since Babylon, all having a relationship with Jerusalem. Babylon destroyed Jerusalem. Persia restored Jerusalem. Greece desolated Jerusalem. Rome dominated Jerusalem. The ten toes allowed Jerusalem to be restored, under Muslim control. The 6th head fought over Jerusalem until a few years ago, when Israel finally gained back control. So yes, Jerusalem has played the harlot with every nation and religion of that scarlet beast.

The antichrist is the image brought to life, but always referred to as the beast by John as the image is not human either.

People who keep making up all these future humans are missing the reality of what Revelation is exactly revealing. Revelation is not supposed to reveal future humans, as that is all downplayed. This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Even though not explicit, it should be understood that Jesus will be on the earth from the 6th Seal to the 7th Trumpet, when He will be declared as the 7th Kingdom after the 6th Kingdom is removed. That being removed in name, because Jesus will be the only King of the entire world. At least what is left of humanity.

The Trumpets and Thunders cover the final harvest. Humanity is being removed from the earth. Some to eternal life, but the majority into the LOF. This is not the time the physically dead are judged from death and sheol. This is the time when what is left of currently over 8 billion humans, are being physically removed, after the church has been taken away at the 5th Seal.

Jesus is literally clearing house (the earth) in preparation for the 7th Kingdom, the one that covers the next thousand years, the Day of the Lord. This is Jesus sitting on a throne in Jerusalem, judging the sheep and the goats, people still physically alive on the earth. The wheat and tares are still people physically alive on the earth. They are not physically dead, nor the dead mentioned standing at the GWT Judgment after the Day of the Lord.

Just like the first time as Messiah with 12 disciples, the Second Coming as Prince involves the 144k disciples who surround Jesus like the original 12 in the first century. That should be evident as they are sealed on the earth between the 6th and 7th Seal. That is the start of the earthly ministry as King on the earth in Jerusalem.

Revelation 13 will only happen in conjunction with the 7th Trumpet at the end of the final harvest. Only after the 7th Trumpet will the FP even step forward with power and authority. Now he may be on the scene when the humans recover after the 6th Seal, but he will not have power and authority as many seem to describe the left behind scenario famous over the last 50 years. There is a human vacuum of power and authority as humanity is in chaos, starting from from the 6th Seal and throughout the Trumpets and Thunders.

But Jesus, all the angels, the 144k will all be on the earth and working with Him the whole time. This has been left out of all human interpretation and imagined future of the Revelation of Jesus as King. Humans have imagined everything, but the main point, which is the revealing of both God sitting on the GWT, and Jesus sitting in judgment in Jerusalem. Jesus is declared as the 7th Kingdom, else there cannot be an 8th Kingdom whatsoever. The 8th Kingdom is what Revelation 13 focuses on.

That is because the church has been dominated by post mill and amil thought that has declared the Second Coming as the ultimate end with not a single moment of time on earth post the Second Coming. That in conjunction with only a single future resurrection, even though the Cross was the last day physical resurrection of the entire body of redeemed souls from the OT. There is and will be more than one single resurrection.

-
​

How did you get so off in your eschatology.

 

[Timtofly]

We should therefore understand the beast as a man who is a head of a government. Surely, both are evil.
When this person is brought up from the sea and the abyss he has the name of an individual in Revelation chapter nine.
It says "HIS name is . . . ". It does not say "THEIR name is . . . "

The beast is not a man. Satan is not a man. Satan is an angel that appears in human form like all other angels.

The beast is the image brought to life. The image does not become a human. It becomes a beast. Satan is the one who ascends, descends, and ascends at will out of the pit. Satan is not bound in the pit until right before the 1,000 years start.

The verse never states the beast is a man. Is says the number belongs to a man, and then the beast typifies that number.

If you named your son Alexander, that would not make him Alexander the Great. The name would be the name of Alexander the Great. And would also be the name your son is called by. That is still his name, even though he is not Alexander the Great.

The name of the man is Adam from Genesis. That is still the name of the image, but the image is not the man, Adam. That is just the name of the beast, during those 42 months.

 

[Timtofly]

-
​

How did you get so off in your eschatology.

How did the church get so lost in human opinion and imagination, that it cannot see today's eschatology is so diverse and contrary to Scripture?

Point out one thing that contradicts Scripture in that post, while different from human opinion and imagination.