Responses to Flat Earth Challenges

[coffee4u]

Revelation 7:1
After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

Isaiah 11:12
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; He will collect the scattered of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Ezekiel 7:2
"O son of man, this is what the Lord GOD says to the land of Israel: 'The end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land.

Thank you for the scripture references.

I don't see the earth being described anywhere in those verses as being flat.
I do see references to corners in each one so I am guessing corners was your point?

To be sure I am using the correct model I attached a picture. Is that how most flat earth believers think it looks?

Well, it's interesting, but how do you all interpret 'corners' to mean a flat round disk?
If anything an argument could be made from those verses for a square or cubed shape earth -except for the fact God tells us it is a circle.

I can't seem to find the corners on my globe...

I can't find them on the flat earth model either.

Since corners are not to be found on either the flat earth model or the spherical model would suggest that four corners means something else, probably something more poetic. When people use this phrase they generally mean from 'all the earth', which would fit with the last two verses.
He will gather them from 'all the earth'
The end has come to 'all the earth'.
Since we know there are no literal corners, Angels standing on '4 corners' must mean something else. Revelation is, after all, a book of prophesy from John's vision, so as a vision it could mean a variety of things. I am no expert on revelation so I will leave that to someone who is.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Since corners are not to be found on either the flat earth model or the spherical model would suggest that four corners means something else, probably something more poetic.

Since we know there are no literal corners, Angels standing on '4 corners' must mean something else.

I would point out that this doesn't follow. The meaning of 'four corners' to the authors of the Bible is not determined by any particular models that exist today.

I would also point out that an early Christian geographer favored a model of a flat, rectangular earth with the heavens above it like a box with a curved lid or tabernacle. This model does have four literal corners, although again, the existence of this model tells us nothing about what the original authors meant.

(PS the earth is a globe.)

 

[Phil G]

I would point out that this doesn't follow. The meaning of 'four corners' to the authors of the Bible is not determined by any particular models that exist today.

I would also point out that an early Christian geographer favored a model of a flat, rectangular earth with the heavens above it like a box with a curved lid or tabernacle. This model does have four literal corners, although again, the existence of this model tells us nothing about what the original authors meant.

(PS the earth is a globe.)

Interesting. Although it would seem that 'four corners of the earth' is widely accepted nowadays as an intended figure of speech of which there are many in the Bible.

While one 6th Century monk (and some other Christians) believed the earth to be flat, this wasn't representative of early Christianity. For instance Arnobius of Sicca, writing in the 4th Century, said:

'the world itself has in itself neither right nor left, neither upper nor under regions, neither fore nor after [parts]. For whatever is round, and bounded on every side by the circumference of a solid sphere, has no beginning, no end;'

The seven books of Arnobius Adversus gentes: Book iv, page 187

The seven books of Arnobius Adversus gentes : Arnobius, of Sicca : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I would point out that this doesn't follow. The meaning of 'four corners' to the authors of the Bible is not determined by any particular models that exist today.

I would also point out that an early Christian geographer favored a model of a flat, rectangular earth with the heavens above it like a box with a curved lid or tabernacle. This model does have four literal corners, although again, the existence of this model tells us nothing about what the original authors meant.

(PS the earth is a globe.)

One wonders if the 'four corners' were related to the four cardinal points or directions (N, S, E, W), meaning, 'as far as you can go in those directions'...

 

[coffee4u]

I would point out that this doesn't follow. The meaning of 'four corners' to the authors of the Bible is not determined by any particular models that exist today.

I would also point out that an early Christian geographer favored a model of a flat, rectangular earth with the heavens above it like a box with a curved lid or tabernacle. This model does have four literal corners, although again, the existence of this model tells us nothing about what the original authors meant.

(PS the earth is a globe.)

It doesn't matter what the early church, or church fathers or any person thought. It's God's word that counts and God says the earth is a circle.
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
There are no corners on a circle.

-and for the record I also believe the earth is spherical.
As someone who believes in sola scriptura, I would be open to a flat earth if the Bible truly taught that and it was important to salvation, but it doesn't and isn't. It's a complete side issue and of no importance.

 

[Freodin]

Once again, if Satan has the resources to maintain a perfect worldwide conspiracy for 2.5 millennia, and his goal is to discredit Christianity, then why didn't he ever think of doing the following:

- Forge Roman records showing where Jesus was buried
- Create a fake tomb with a fake body
- Have archaeologists 'discover' the body, thus proving that the Resurrection never happened

This would be a lot easier to do than the ridiculously impossible flat earth conspiracy, and it would be a lot more effective if the aim is to lead souls away from Christ.

Just out of interest... what would you do if archeologists discovered Roman records leading to the discovery of Jesus' tomb and body?

 

[Strathos]

Just out of interest... what would you do if archeologists discovered Roman records leading to the discovery of Jesus' tomb and body?

Probably think it was a hoax, but of course I would like to personally examine the evidence myself. There was actually an interesting movie made based on this concept.