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Repenting of sins not neccesary for salvation?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by onajourney87, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. onajourney87

    onajourney87 Contributor

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    Okay, I've been doing a bunch of searching through the Bible recently on what is taught on how salvation is "gained".

    In all cases, I find rehashes of Acts 16:31("Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"). Various other verses(mainly in Romans) make it clearer just what has to be believed, and that one needs to confess that Jesus is Lord(therefore saying He is greater than them).

    But in all of this, I see nothing at all about asking for forgiveness for sins... Am I missing something? Or is asking for forgiveness of sins, and truely being sorry for them, not a requirment for receiving salvation?

    Please only reply if you can back up your answer via the Bible(yeah, you can add in some logical reasoning as well).

    osm
     
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  2. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

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    This is only a small list. Repentance would envolve asking God for forgiveness of sins, since He is the only one able to forgive them completely. Of course if we sin against another person, we ask them too, as in - if a brother sins against you seven times, Jesus said to forgive seventy times seven:

    Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

    Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

    Matthew 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

    Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

    Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

    Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    Luke 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

    Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;


    Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

    Revelation 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

    John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

    Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

    1 Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

    1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

    1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

    Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

    2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

    10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
     
  3. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

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    Repentance from sin prior to faith in Christ is a task we are meant to fail at. It shows that we need to be saved by faith.
     
  4. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    "Asking for forgiveness of sins" is something that is morally impossible for those that are dead in their trespasses and sins, i.e., unregenerate. Few would argue against the notion that those in the flesh can do NOTHING to please God. Repentence of our sinfulness is something that is not only commanded but most assuredly pleases the Lord. It is an obedient action. The Word clearly tells us that the unregenerate do not submit to the Law of God, nor CAN they. Therefore, we can logically determine that repentence of our sins, while definitely commanded and pleasing to God, CANNOT be the basis for our receiving salvation.

    We must consider something that is very revealing about our role in repentence. Repentence is not merely recognizing that our works are sinful but that our motivation for our works is sinful as well. The Word is clear that the unregenerate CAN do NOTHING to please God. We cannot claim that salvation is by the grace of God if we, or anything we do, play a part in meriting it. If our repentence is necessary, i.e., without it the Lord is powerless or uninclined to bring us to a saving knowledge of Himself and His Law, then, not only do we subjegate the Lord's omnipotence to our fallen morality, we take credit for, at least a portion, of God sovereign, providential, UNMERITED grace in our salvation.

    Repentence is the RESULT of being made aware of our fallenness, which is solely the work of the Lord. This monergistic work of God is not effected by our acquiesence, rather our acquiesence is the natural result of the indwelling power of God Himself. We come to life by the efficacious INWARD call of God upon our blindingly deceitful, morally DEAD hearts. Our RESPONSE to that sovereign call is the natural response of creation to Creator, just as it was Lazarus' natural response to come to life when called by our Savior. Lazarus did not seek the Lord's grace. He did not pray for the Lord's grace. To be sure, Lazarus responded. However, we must be sure not to credit Lazarus' response to his own initiative. He responded as any creation MUST respond to the sovereign call of his Creator. We must look at our own repentence in the same manner. We repent because of the sovereign INNER call of our Creator and we do so because His call is sovereign, not because we, in our fallen state, recognize our need for it. The truth of our fallenness is that prior to His inward call we are powerless to break free from the bondage of our sinful nature and that once we receive this efficacious call we ALWAYS respond as Lazarus responded, we live.

    God bless
     
  5. water_ripple

    water_ripple Well-Known Member

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    In the words of Christ..I come not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance...Only through faith in Christ can we repent, and the first step is asking forgiveness.:)
     
  6. Ragman

    Ragman Member

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    When God says in His Son, "I forgive you" He speaks both a message of mercy and of judgement. Mercy because we are reconciled to Him and judgement because He shows we have done that which is in need of forgiveness. Therefore forgiveness must preceed repentance.

    It is through the power of this revelation, that we have been forgiven in Christ, that we can face God and repent. Otherwise our repentance would be done only with the "prospect" of receiving God's forgiveness.

    Secondly, we must ask ourselves if our repentance, or faith for that matter has the power to change who God is. If one were to say that God is only Father to those who are saved, then does our faith or repentance have the power to change God from not being our Father to being our Father. I would say it definitely does not. God on the other hand has the power to make one His child.

    RM
     
  7. Svt4Him

    Svt4Him Legend Supporter

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    All of heaven rejoices when one sinner comes to repentance. Repentance is the one part of our gospel that has been lost. If I see you swimming, and I jump in and try and pull you out, you'll be upset. But if I am first able to show you why what you're doing is bad, then try to help you, you would have changed what you were doing (repent) and come out.

    Repent and believe is the Gospel according to Jesus.
     
  8. Carico

    Carico Well-Known Member

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    The only requirement for salvation is receiveing the Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Eternal life is this; that you know the one true God and His son Jesus Christ". Jesus said you have to be born again of water and the Holy Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. However, once you receive the Holy Spirit, it is almost impossible not to repent because it is the holy Spirit that convicts us. The discomfort of not repenting is too strong to resist because the holy Spirit "will lead you into all truth."
     
  9. onajourney87

    onajourney87 Contributor

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    Thanks a ton to everyone who answered, this makes sooooo much more sense to me now. :)

    osm
     
  10. k4c

    k4c Well-Known Member

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    Hello to everyone,


    I would like to add little something to this discussion. Salvation is a healing process for us. God does not have to forgive us so that we can enter into heaven. God forgives us because He loves us and it a big part of our healing process to know that God holds nothing against us.


    Look at it this way, I get caught cheating on my wife, as a result, my wife leaves me. I am crushed because of what I had done to the point that I want to end my life. The only way that I can go on with my life is to know that my wife forgives me.


    Now, is my wife forgiving me for her sake or for my sake?


    The forgiveness of sin has to do with the cleansing of our conscience and the softening of the sin hardened heart which brings restoration.


    What Jesus did on the cross has a two fold application. First, He removes the guilt from us through the nailing of the handwriting that was against us contained in the law; Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. This is applied to our hearts as forgiveness, the cleansing of the conscience, this is the part where healing comes into our lives. We have nothing to do with this part, it's all God working for us.


    The second is, the deliverance from sin or sanctification, keeping our hearts right with God love, this is our part in salvation; Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


    Remember, it's not the death of the Son of God that saves us but rather it's His life; Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


    We are saved by His life living through us as we allow Him to cleans us with His words; Ephesians 5:25-26 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,


    How the cross is able to restore us is in our understanding of the cross.


    The cross is a picture of God's awesome love for us. Jesus died so that He could become a covering for us. When we truly understand the love that's behind the cross, this draws us to the Father's saving plan; Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.


    Understanding the cross draws us near to God and softens our hearts to receive Christ, the Holy Spirit, the comforter.


    So, understanding that God forgives us is not for Himself but rather He forgives us for our sake to help us understand and experience His love.

    Keeping ourselves from sin and helping those who are in need is our expression of love and gratitude for what God has done for us, it also allows God to fill us with Himself and make our lives complete and full of joy and peace, even in the hard times.


    James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.


    Truth in love,
    John
     
  11. Svt4Him

    Svt4Him Legend Supporter

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    You're then confusing forgiveness with repentance. If you cheat on your wife and she forgives you, that's great. If you keep cheating on your wife, then you haven't repented. God has said that anyone who uses His grace as an occasion to sin tramples the blood under their feet, and what sacrifice is left for them?
     
  12. jbarcher

    jbarcher ANE Social Science Researcher

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  13. Svt4Him

    Svt4Him Legend Supporter

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    I think he's right on.
     
  14. Celestron

    Celestron Regular Member

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    I used to feel that i didn't need to ask God for forgiveness of sins.... i mean doesn't he say, 'i will remember your sins no more'...that was the covenant he made. and if he remembers them no more, why should we bring them up?

    I actually think we don't have to ask, but asking is beneficial to the believer and heals the heart and soul.... its something meant for us not as a burden but as an aid...
     
  15. jbarcher

    jbarcher ANE Social Science Researcher

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    So you're saying, that repentance is not necessary for salvation?

    So if you're never sorry for the sins you did, then you'll still be saved?

    I hope I'm getting you wrong. Because if not, then ouch. You'd better read the NT.
     
  16. Reformationist

    Reformationist Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam

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    I would say that a more accurate way of implying this is to say that repentence is an intregral part of salvation in that there is no such thing as a person who is saved that does not repent. Repentence is a work, no matter how you slice it. Granted, it's a commanded work, but a work nonetheless. If we attribute our salvation, even partially, to a contribution we make, which includes repentence, we subjegate the Lord's immutable and sovereign work of atonement to being a required, but not sufficient, condition of our salvation. Additionally, we credit, even if only partially, ourselves for contributing an equally necessary condition for salvation.

    So, repentence IS necessary for salvation but it is necessary in the sense that it is BY AND THROUGH the grace of God indwelling us that we repent. Because of His sovereign intercession in our hearts by regenerating us, NOT repenting is NOT an option we would desire. It is the presence of the Lord Himself that creates in us a sincere and sustainable desire to continually repent of our sinfulness and seek to be obedient to Him.


    I know this wasn't directed at me but I'd just like to comment that this type of reasoning is faulty from the get go. We must first understand that it is God's sovereign and continual regeneration of our hearts and minds that is directly and primarily responsible for our desire to repent of our sinfulness. With that in mind, it's illogical to consider the possibility that the Lord would regenerate someone and not indwell them. So, the possibility of a REGENERATE person who is NEVER sorry for their sinfulness is, in actuality, a non possibility. Salvation begets sorrow for sinfulness. Think of yourself. Can you imagine NEVER feeling sorrow for your transgressions?

    Actually, the concept of repentence is a common theme throughout the entirity of the Gospel. David was constantly repenting of his sinfulness and knew true sorrow at the evil he saw in his heart.

    God bless
     
  17. AcousticHxC

    AcousticHxC New Member

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    I think repentance is kind of necessary if you accept Jesus...I mean why would you accept Him if you didn't repent? What other purpose is there? If you're just saying "I accept you, now I can go to heaven" then it's not really accepting Him, it's saying that you are. If you say "I accept that you died for our sins (which is basically allowing us to be forgiven)" then you are truly accepting him
     
  18. Hands&Feet

    Hands&Feet Active Member

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    I once embraced Mac Arthur's Book, The Gospel According to Jesus, whole heartedly. However, I no longer do and it is my understanding that MacArthur himself no longer hold the same position. Ryrie went through some interesting events in his life which brough him to grips with a counter to Mac Arthur's Lorship Salvation theory.

    The bottom line is--either you believe that Jesus died for your sins or you don't. If we add anything to that it is works and Jesus' sacrifice was in vain. He loves us all unconditionally and it is our choice whether or not we receive that free gift. If we add to it, we are not receiveing it. We are saying that we want a say in the whole thing; our pride won't allow us to accept it.

    Having said that, once one embraces this unconditional, umerited and undeserved gift from our Lord, it becomes difficult to not want to live our lives for a God like that. Our motivation for repentance is something that stems from gratitude, not fear and condemnation. Christians who don't embrace absolute forgiveness and acceptance have as much problem as those in other religions with "keeping the law." Grace, on the other hand, gives us breathing room. We know full well of our prosenity toward sin, but we know that when we fail, we have an advocate in Jesus who stands before the Father in our behalf. Do we use this grace as a license for immorality? Hardly. By the witness of the Holy Spirit within us, we are both motivated and mobilized to live righteously. But, evey one of us fails to one degree or another. It is a life long process.

    I have found, though, that the more I live out my faith, concerned with extending the love and compassion of Christ tho others, the less struggle with sin I have because I am no longer focused inwardly. When we are doing good, being good has a tendency to take care of itself.

    Thinking through theology like this can change our minds, but only loving and serving in the spirit of Jesus really changes our hearts. :)
     
  19. Benedicta00

    Benedicta00 Well-Known Member

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    I have a question for anyone who cares to answer.

    If we are saved and I mean truly saved, no turning back, and we sin, if we are not deep down really sorry, how are we forgiven? Are we forgiven against our will just because we were born again and freed from Adam's sin?
     
  20. Hands&Feet

    Hands&Feet Active Member

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    What do you mean by forgiven against our will?

    If we weren't completely forgiven--once and for all--we would all be going to hell and Jesus would have died in vain. But, Im not sure if that is answering your question.
     
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