Repenting of sins not neccesary for salvation?

[Benedicta00]

What do you mean by forgiven against our will?

If we weren't completely forgiven--once and for all--we would all be going to hell and Jesus would have died in vain. But, Im not sure if that is answering your question.

How can you be forgiven once for all? How is that reasonable to believe? You can commit a sin even after you are “saved’ and not even be sorry for it, how can you be forgiven something if you are not even sorry? Isn’t that being forgiven against you will?

 

[Hands&Feet]

So, you serve a God who promises you eternal salvation and then keeps taking it away form you? How reasonable is that?

 

[jbarcher]

Thank you Reformationist for your post. I can't put it into words as intelligible as you can.


I think Shelb is eluding to a situation where someone really isn't sorry for what they did...I'm not sure I understand, but let me give you the case of my grandmother...

There were many bitter fights in the family. And many bad things said. Grandmother is not sorry for those at all, nor will she forgive her husband. At this present time, I'm not sure what her husband did, but she is most bitter about it. In the past, she has lashed out at people who have approached her about this issue. Three of her daughters say, "If mother and father do not forgive, why should we become Christians?" Quite a bit of their growing-up memories consist of their parents fighting.

So I guess Shelb's question would really be, is my grandmother forgiven?

Or another case would be, say someone "gets saved". Then they commit adultery, and they really enjoyed it. Sorry about doing that? Well, at least they won't admit to it...

Am I just confusing things?

 

[Benedicta00]

So, you serve a God who promises you eternal salvation and then keeps taking it away form you? How reasonable is that?

To get back to my question that was not answered, how can Christ take away a sin if you do not want to be forgiven of it? If you think you did nothing wrong? Will he forgive you anyway even if you don't want his forgiveness, even if you don't ask for it, even if you would do it over again if given the chance?

 

[Benedicta00]

Am I just confusing things?

No, not at all. this is a legitimate question that all born again Christian should be honest enough with themselves to answer.

Does the bible say that unrepentant sinners go to heaven just because they were born again? What does the bible say about what happens to sins that we do not repent of? Do they disappear or are they dealt with?

 

[Reformationist]

If we are saved and I mean truly saved, no turning back, and we sin, if we are not deep down really sorry, how are we forgiven?

We are forgiven for each of our sins for the exact same reason, because Christ atoned for them. There is, in EVERY thing we do, to include repentence, a measure of sinfulness. Even when we are regenerate sin is a major player in all of our works, to include repentence. Nothing we do is completely pure, like the selfless atonement of Christ, because sin is a part of who we are, not just what we do. So, to speculate about the forgiveness of our sins as it relates to how sorry we are is pretty much a non issue. First off, the penalty of sin is death. This is the decree of God Himself. For us to presume that the penalty is not applied because we are "deep down really sorry" is to make the false assumption that God's sovereign decree is subject to how sorry we are. In effect, we subjugate the divine Law of the Creator to the creation. Secondly, the Word does not say, "The wages of sin is death, unless you repent." It says, "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." This clearly tells us that it is through Christ Jesus our Lord that the gift of eternal life is obtained, not our ability to be "deep down really sorry."

Are we forgiven against our will just because we were born again and freed from Adam's sin?

There is no such thing with being "forgiven against our will." All Christians desire forgiveness for their transgressions. A desire for forgiveness is the natural result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Again, this is a non issue because there is no such thing as a person who has been born again that does not desire forgiveness. On the contrary, someone who does not desire forgiveness shows their lack of faith in their need for forgiveness which, in turn, shows their lack of desire to be obedient to the Lord.

God bless,
Don

 

[Reformationist]

How can you be forgiven once for all?

Because God sent His Son, the ONLY sacrifice that could atone and deemed that sufficient, in and of itself, to secure for God's children forgiveness for their transgressions:

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

How is that reasonable to believe? You can commit a sin even after you are “saved’ and not even be sorry for it, how can you be forgiven something if you are not even sorry?

Once again, we are not forgiven because we are sorry. We're forgiven because of Christ's propitiatory atonement. Additonally, "feeling sorrow" for breaking the Law of God is a RESULT of His continued presence in our hearts that regenerates us. It is NOT the basis for our forgiveness. It's the manifestation of His forgiveness. A true and deep love for God and a desire to "go and sin no more" marks God's sovereign regeneration of a person. It is NOT the reason He chooses to regenerate someone. If it were they would definitely be in a position to brag about their own holiness.

Isn’t that being forgiven against you will?

No but I will tell you that in all the sins I've committed, if there has ever been an instance, and I'm sure there has, that I have not felt deep regret for my treasonous actions against God then I am truly thankful that He has chosen to forgive me, EVEN if it's against my will.

God bless

 

[Hands&Feet]

I can't add a thing to that, Reformationist. That was one of those keepers.

 

[Reformationist]

I'm not sure I understand, but let me give you the case of my grandmother...

There were many bitter fights in the family. And many bad things said. Grandmother is not sorry for those at all, nor will she forgive her husband. At this present time, I'm not sure what her husband did, but she is most bitter about it. In the past, she has lashed out at people who have approached her about this issue. Three of her daughters say, "If mother and father do not forgive, why should we become Christians?" Quite a bit of their growing-up memories consist of their parents fighting.

So I guess Shelb's question would really be, is my grandmother forgiven?

I, nor any other person, would be able to answer in the affirmative. I don't have a clue if your grandmother is saved. However, I will tell you that if she is, she is forgiven. As to whether your grandmother is sorry only your grandmother and the Lord know that. She may be an extremely prideful person that has a hard time apologizing for things but that does not mean that she is not a child of God.

Or another case would be, say someone "gets saved". Then they commit adultery, and they really enjoyed it. Sorry about doing that? Well, at least they won't admit to it...

Again, I don't know, and neither does anyone else. Additionally, we are commanded not to speculate about the salvitic disposition of another person. We are commanded to preach the Good News of redemption, encourage others to obey the Lord, and trust that those whom the Lord has sovereignly determined to save will most assuredly be saved because He is a God who always brings things to pass as He has decreed.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

To get back to my question that was not answered, how can Christ take away a sin if you do not want to be forgiven of it? If you think you did nothing wrong?

Understanding that we did something wrong IS NOT why we are forgiven. Being sorry for doing something wrong IS NOT why we are forgiven. The sacrificial atonement of Jesus IS why we are forgiven.

Being, or feeling sorrow for breaking the Law of God is a RESULT of the divine work of God in regenerating us from death unto life.

Will he forgive you anyway even if you don't want his forgiveness

You know a CHRISTIAN that doesn't want His forgiveness for a sin they've committed? If not, why ask the question?

even if you don't ask for it

Well, I guess I would struggle with this if I believed that my asking for forgiveness was the reason I am forgiven. Since I don't I am able to truly understand that forgiveness is by the grace of God. If I get forgiven because I asked for it then it wouldn't be grace, it would be the wages of my works:

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

even if you would do it over again if given the chance?

You ever commit the same sin twice (this is rhetorical by the way)? Do you think God's ability to conform you to the image of His Son is limited by the number of times you commit a particular sin?

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

What does the bible say about what happens to sins that we do not repent of? Do they disappear or are they dealt with?

I cannot speak of anyone else's sins but I will tell you that my sins have been dealt with. They were dealt with on the Cross.

God bless

 

[Reformationist]

I can't add a thing to that, Reformationist. That was one of those keepers.

Thank you very much for the encouragement. That's very kind of you.

God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

I cannot speak of anyone else's sins but I will tell you that my sins have been dealt with. They were dealt with on the Cross.

God bless

Even the ones you are not sorry for? The ones you would do all over again if given the chnace?

 

[Benedicta00]

You ever commit the same sin twice (this is rhetorical by the way)? Do you think God's ability to conform you to the image of His Son is limited by the number of times you commit a particular sin?

Yes, I do because I can not be made into Christ image if I prefer sin, I must surrender my will to Him. Do you think those who sin willingly can be made into Christ image regardless?

 

[Reformationist]

Even the ones you are not sorry for? The ones you would do all over again if given the chnace?

Again, my sorrow for my transgressions against the Lord is a result of my increasing knowledge of Him. The Word regenerates the mind and as our minds are regenerated we will come to see sin more clearly and, thus, our abhorrance of that sin will increase as will our desire to obey God. Being sorry for sinning is a RESULT of God's work of regeneration.

The Lord works in us always to not only make us sorry when we do sin but also to help us guard against sinning.

This is one vital piece of the message of the Gospel. We know that the Lord has done more than just rescue us from the certain death of our present path. He has also made a covenant with us. He has promised to be with us always. While He is with us He continues to conform us and make intercession for us and regenerate our hearts.

God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

So if you are really born again you WILL be sorry automatically, if not you really aren’t born again?

 

[Reformationist]

Yes, I do because I can not be made into Christ image if I prefer sin, I must surrender my will to Him.

Well, I will pray that you learn to put your faith in the faithfulness of God rather than in your own works of surrendering your will to Him. He created your will. You are not greater than Him. Job is a good example of that. Your ability as well as your actual act of surrendering your will to Him is the RESULT of His grace, not the catalyst for His ability to bring you to repentence.

Do you think those who sin willingly can be made into Christ image regardless?

Well, you make two erroneous theological assumptions here. First, all who sin do so willingly, EVERY time they sin. If we sinned against our will then would you believe the Lord to be righteous if we were held accountable for that sin? Secondly, to coin the phrase, "the proof is in the puddin'." All who are ever conformed to the image of Christ sin willingly and the Lord is more than capable of conforming them. It's called sovereignty, and He is definitely sovereign.

God bless

 

[Benedicta00]

If we sinned against our will then the would you believe the Lord to be righteous if we were held accountable for that sin?

He doesn't if we were forced to commit a sin that we did not want to commit.

And please do pray that I will always be open to the will of God calling me to repent and trusting in his mercy.

I always have the free will to choose against that and therefor I am in need of prayer.

 

[Reformationist]

He doesn't if we were forced to commit a sin that we did not want to commit.

That's exactly what I'm saying. So, to separate the sins we commit "unwillingly," which for most of us comprises 0%, from those we willingly commit for the purpose of determining whether the Creator of all things created is able to conform us to the image of His Son seems, to me, a bit irrelevent.

And please do pray that I will always be open to the will of God calling me to repent and trusting in his mercy.

As are we all and I would ask for those same prayers for me and my family from any who feel led to give them. May the Lord bless you, Michelle, for your humble acknowledgement of your need for His grace and may He give us all a deep and resounding desire to strive for the betterment of others.

God bless,
Don

 

[Reformationist]

So if you are really born again you WILL be sorry automatically, if not you really aren?t born again?

Is this to me? If so, no. I did not mean to imply that at all. I will say that the Lord does not hide our sinfulness from us. Most of us don't need to be told when we've been ungodly. It's normally quite obvious, especially to others. That's why it's so important to help others and be humble enough to listen when others seek to help us.

God bless