If spirit isn't vibration then what is it?
There is no body we have "in heaven", the resurrection of the body is when Christ returns, and creation restored (c.f. Romans 8, Isaiah 65, Revelation 21 & 22, 1 Corinthians 15)
Christ only give 1 example, there can be many more.Pay attention, in what way are the resurrected like the angels? "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" that is only similarity here.
-CryptoLutheran
God don't need air. Breath of God is God's spirit (or something similar). It is definitely not air.Presumably, spirit.
The problem is that concepts such as "soul" and "spirit" are not explicitly defined in Scripture and tend to have a rather nebulous sense. The basic sense behind both is "breath" (in both Hebrew and Greek) and tends to involve, largely, the fact that for ancient people there seemed to be a rather specific distinction between a living thing and a corpse--namely breath. Living things breathed, dead things didn't.
-CryptoLutheran
I agree that the body matters. Without a body, the soul wouldn't be able to learn etc. I know you mean 'body' differently though. You mean it as something more permanent - you are saying 'the' body, I am moreso saying 'a' body. So, this is the bit I'll have to think more and read more on.I mean body in the sense of this solid flesh frame--skin, tissue, muscle, bones, etc.
In Christianity the body matters, a non-bodied person isn't a whole person; and the Christian religion depends on the doctrine of the resurrection of the body--that the body rises and is transformed in the same way Christ was raised and transformed; from mortality to immortality, from perishable to imperishable.
I'm not familiar enough with Gnosticism to really comment here. What you're saying is thought-provoking and I will read more on the subject.Early Christians didn't believe in a matter-spirit duality, that was the product of Gnosticism and later Manicheanism; and with it a host of other ideas in which materiality was intrinsically bad and was something to be cast off and rejected. For most forms of Gnosticism the chief goal was a return to the realm of pure spirit through spiritual enlightenment, knowledge, gnosis.
I agree with this basically, that God is a benevolent god.However the historic Christian position has been that God is the author of all things, we confess for example, "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen." That is we go back to Genesis where after creation God declares of all things He has made, "It is exceedingly good".
You seem to be saying that people who believe in reincarnation must also believe that how we treat people etc doesn't matter... I would have to disagree. I think that anyone who would take it in any way seriously would have an awareness of the cause-effect of their actions, behaviour etc.The Incarnation means God has united Himself with our humanity, God became man. Jesus Christ, the Lord, is both God and human; and we see through His life and teachings that things here matter--how we treat people matters to God, creation matters, people matter, the conditions and affairs in which people find themselves are things which matter to God.
This is an interesting quote, something to think about. Thanks for your post.The dirt under our feet matters to God, and God purposes it for eternity, because it is--intrinsically--good and God will not see it pass away to nothing.
There is huge amounts of ignorance around this subject ,but it is clear that it was a common belief among certain Jews .They did not as far as I remember believe the same as Hindus but that the person would be born again many times before they would reachI've underlined the beliefs I tend to agree with (I would use different words though).
Also from the article, some points refuting reincarnation...
I don't think I agree on these, or I don't get where he's coming from.
Thanks for the link though. It gives a kind of overview. Some things mentioned I will look into further.
It could be it's more of a Catholic thing. It was mentioned earlier that there's a branch of Catholicism that agrees with it (which I've not looked into as yet).Fascinating discussion. It's not something I used to think about much, but it's been on my mind over the years because I have a close friend who is close to God, we speak of Him every time we get together, she attends church weekly as a Catholic, very spiritual, but she does also believe in reincarnation. I have reflected on it and it's not something I can believe in - I don't see anything about in that lines with the bible and what I know and understand to be the afterlife. Doesn't sit right with me. I respect her and still consider her a Christian, definitely, but it's not something we agree on. I'm always curious to get others input on it.
I agree that the body matters. Without a body, the soul wouldn't be able to learn etc. I know you mean 'body' differently though. You mean it as something more permanent - you are saying 'the' body, I am moreso saying 'a' body. So, this is the bit I'll have to think more and read more on.
You know where the disciples didn't recognise Jesus after he appeared? What would your comment be on this? It seems to me it means that the body was changed.
I'm not familiar enough with Gnosticism to really comment here. What you're saying is thought-provoking and I will read more on the subject.
I agree with this basically, that God is a benevolent god.
You seem to be saying that people who believe in reincarnation must also believe that how we treat people etc doesn't matter... I would have to disagree. I think that anyone who would take it in any way seriously would have an awareness of the cause-effect of their actions, behaviour etc.
This is an interesting quote, something to think about. Thanks for your post.
It could be it's more of a Catholic thing. It was mentioned earlier that there's a branch of Catholicism that agrees with it (which I've not looked into as yet).
There are lots of sections of the bible that I'm not familiar with or need to read again. I'll keep an open mind on it then, for a while. It will be a while I think before I'll know the bible well enough.
Soul cannot mean body and spirit. The body is that which is physical and turns into dust after death. The soul is immaterial and continues to exist either in Hades (without Christ) or in Heaven (with Christ). The spirit is within the soul yet distinct from it, and is the spiritual part of the individual. As to "vibrations" it is true that neither matter vibrations nor energy vibrations are destroyed, and ultimately everything consists of electrons which vibrate. But that has no bearing on reincarnation.Soul means body and spirit. Body alone isn't soul and spirit alone isn't soul.
There's no support for that in Scripture at all, though. Christianity teaches that we have one life to live on this Earth, then we die, then we rise to go to either Heaven or Hell. Reincarnation simply never enters into the picture.This is how I've tended to think of it as well; reincarnation as a kind of purgatory.
Depends on what exactly you mean.tealight said:Can someone believe in reincarnation and be a Christian?
Many Jews believe in reincarnation ,and so did the early Church.NO. Reincarnation is a pagan concept.
Hebrews says '"die once" ,not live once . There are many references in the bible to previous existence . Until 553 the Church believed in it too , a Pope was banished for opposing the denial of reincarnation .I definately think that someone can be a Christain and still believe in reincarnation. It is very uncommon though because the Word says that man will only die once.
This is correct, that reincarnation is a means by which God 'evolved ' souls, until Jesus came ,then He took on all the past 'sin' ,or 'karma', until a person could have the opportunity to know and Love Jesus ,THEN there is ONE DEATH only after that .Depends on what exactly you mean.
One can believe in reincarnation and accept Jesus as Savior - become a Christian.
I honestly don't believe one can be a Christian and grow as a Christian and not divest one's self of the idea at some point. The divestiture will happen because you have given up the idea of your own free will and thinking; not because some authority figure orders you to do so.
The biggest question is are you interested in a permanent and personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Until that relationship is formed, everything else is marginal. (Most things are marginal afterward as well, but in a different sense.)