Reincarnation

[tealight]

Have a look at the following link; it may help you with your question.

https://bible.org/question/what-does-bible-say-about-reincarnation

I've underlined the beliefs I tend to agree with (I would use different words though).

3. Reincarnation: The individual soul survives and is reincarnated into another body. Reincarnation is usually connected with the next belief, pantheism, by the notion of karma: that after the soul has fulfilled its destiny, and learned its lessons and become sufficiently enlightened, it reverts to a divine status or is absorbed into (or realizes its timeless identity with) the divine All.

4. Pantheism: Death changes nothing, for what survives death is the same as what was real before death: only the one, changeless, eternal, perfect, spiritual, divine, all-inclusive Reality, sometimes called by a name (“Brahman”) and sometimes not (as in Buddhism). In this view—that of Eastern mysticism—all separateness, including time, is an illusion. Therefore, in this view, the very question of what happens after death is mistaken. The question is not solved but dissolved.

5. Immortality: The individual soul survives death, but not the body. This soul eventually reaches its eternal destiny of heaven or hell, perhaps through intermediate stages, perhaps through reincarnation. But what survives is an individual, bodiless spirit. This is Platonism, often confused with Christianity.

6. Resurrection: At death, the soul separates from the body and is reunited at the end of the world to its new, immortal, resurrected body by a divine miracle. This is the Christian view. This view, the supernatural resurrection of the body rather than the natural immortality of the soul alone, is the only version of life after death in Scripture. It is dimly prophesied and hoped for in the Old Testament, but clearly revealed in the New.

Also from the article, some points refuting reincarnation...

3. It would reduce the Incarnation (referring to Christ’s incarnation) to a mere appearance, the crucifixion to an accident, and Christ to one among many philosophers or avatars. It would also confuse what Christ did with what creatures do: incarnation with reincarnation.
.....
5. It is contradicted by psychology and common sense, for its view of souls as imprisoned in alien bodies denies the natural psychosomatic unity.

I don't think I agree on these, or I don't get where he's coming from.

Thanks for the link though. It gives a kind of overview. Some things mentioned I will look into further.

 

[Jesus' Follower]

I've underlined the beliefs I tend to agree with (I would use different words though).



Also from the article, some points refuting reincarnation...
I don't think I agree on these, or I don't get where he's coming from.

Thanks for the link though. It gives a kind of overview. Some things mentioned I will look into further.

My pleasure; just a quick Internet search picked that up.
The troubled with these articles is that they can be slightly warped by the author.
It does give you the general idea though.

 

[tulipbee]

Soul means body and spirit. Body alone isn't soul and spirit alone isn't soul. Together it is. When body goes to ground, all is left is vibrations. Vibrations are always vibrating. Like Hawkings new statement, the black hole contains information. The vibrations from the person contains information. That information is always there. It never dies away. The sound coming from the clap of your hands never dies away. If you didn't exist, that clap would have never happen. See, it is true everything about you is recorded and what you did made results.

 

[tealight]

It is a very rare belief among Christians and not at all well supported by Scripture. That doesn't mean it's completely absent from the great range of existing Christian denominations, however.

Check into the Liberal Catholic Church. There are several different branches or church bodies using that name, and not all of them agree on this point, but some do indeed believe in reincarnation.

Thanks for this. I haven't had time yet to look into apart from a quick look on wiki. The title is interesting - sounds like mixing politics into it Not to judge by the title of course, just that first impression.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for this. I haven't had time yet to look into apart from a quick look on wiki. The title is interesting - sounds like mixing politics into it Not to judge by the title of course, just that first impression.

It took me a second to catch onto what you were referring to there. "Liberal" in this case does not have anything to do with politics; the word in the name of the church means "liberal" in the theological sense--less legalistic, more tolerance for diverse beliefs, etc.,

 

[tealight]

Reincarnation, at the very least, must insist that the "real person" is some sort of spirit or soul and the body is basically inconsequential. That's not compatible with Christian teaching which says that the body is fundamental to who we are as human beings and our hope, in Christ, of the resurrection of the body and eternal life in the age to come.

I wouldn't say that the body is inconsequential.

I think that an over-emphasis on the body in the life of a person can lead to more sin.

You seem to be using the word 'body' in a different sense though..? A kind of non-physical sense?

 

[tealight]

Hi, Tea Light Hebrews 9:27 says,

"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,"

This shows that each human dies only one time, and then comes that person's judgment.

So, reincarnation is not scriptural. There is reincarnation belief which has the idea that people come back in a later life, and then how they are is connected with how they lived in their life before. If they come back as higher beings in rather good situations, this is said to be because they lived a good life in their latest past life. But if they lived badly, they come back worse, as a punishment.

I don't know if all reincarnationists believe this same way. But in Jesus people get fully forgiven of our past life of sin, before people leave this life, and people can begin new in Jesus, in His love.

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

So, reincarnation can be a doctrine of unforgiveness and depending on ourselves, I can see. But in the salvation of Jesus we have forgiveness; also, we depend on Him > Paul says,

"we who first trusted in Christ" (Ephesians 1:12).

We have trusted in Jesus. We have not only trusted in a group or a group of practices and beliefs. So, I consider that in case a new Christian does not know, yet, that reincarnation is wrong, this does not mean the new Christian is not saved, but he or she needs to learn more.

We are called to learn from Jesus and He gives us "rest for your souls" > Matthew 11:29 >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Jesus is able to teach us right and do all He desires to do with each of us, in this lifetime. So, there is no need for reincarnation in order for us to progress to a higher level in some later life and then another life and on it could go.

There is no procrastination, with God. Our Father is able to fully correct us and change us to become like Jesus in this life >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

We trust and depend on our Heavenly Father to correct us, how He pleases, so better than how we can think and hope > Hebrews 12:4-11.

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

Now is the time to submit to God Himself, and He is able to do all we need in us before we leave this life. We need to not only trust and depend on doing what people tell us to do, for practices; we need to submit to God Himself and how He corrects us and personally guides us "continually" (Isaiah 58:11). Our Father is this personally interested in each of us, not desiring to leave us on our own.

Jesus has returned by means of the Holy Spirit, to live in each of us who have trusted in Jesus for salvation. But He has not come into us in order to improve Himself; Jesus is God's own Son. In us He makes us become more and more like He is >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

So, people do not need to be reincarnated; but people need for their own selfish selves to die and be done away with, and to have Jesus in us as our new inner Person, making us "gentle and lowly in heart" (Matthew 11:29) like Jesus is, "and you will find rest for your souls."

Hi and thanks for your post

I read the thread through last night but was too tired to reply. I replied today in the order that the posts were written, but reading your post now, again, I see it has addressed some things that I wondered about earlier.

I really like the points you are making in this post. It gives me some new ways to think about it.

 

[tealight]

What does "after this the judgment" mean? Exactly what it says. One physical death to be followed by one Divine judgment [to be followed by the Second Death (eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire)].

This makes me think that life should be much more urgent than it often is.

Reincarnation is a necessity when there is no sacrifice for sins which is totally acceptable to God.

Just have a question on this. Are you saying reincarnation can happen in some circumstances or....?

Those who are born once, die twice. Those who are born twice, die once.

I take this to be referring to being 'born again'. I don't recall the term 'born again' being mentioned much in my Catholic education growing up.
Anyway I like the way you've summarised this. Thanks

 

[Job8]

Just have a question on this. Are you saying reincarnation can happen in some circumstances or....?

I was simply being ironic. Reincarnation is a belief for those who do not know (or do not wish to know) Christ and what He has accomplished for humanity. It is precisely because there is judgment after death that the Lord Jesus Christ came into this world -- "to save sinners". Which means that reincarnation is wishful thinking.

 

[tealight]

Some denominations believe the dead stay in the grave till Christ returns. The dead has to wait. What are the vibrations of the person going to do in the meantime? A single clap from a living person never stops. The vibrations continues forever. Most folks thinks reincarnation continuously loops but that isn't so. Enlightenment means the end of reincarnation. If that is the case, then reincarnation is the same as purgatory. The souls waits in purgatory. For what? To learn. Reincarnation is also a learning period as well.

This is how I've tended to think of it as well; reincarnation as a kind of purgatory.

 

[tealight]

"Liberal" in this case does not have anything to do with politics; the word in the name of the church means "liberal" in the theological sense--less legalistic, more tolerance for diverse beliefs, etc.,

Thanks for explaining. I wasn't aware of the theological sense. I didn't know of different branches of Catholicism either. I will look into it anyway; may get back later if any comments.

 

[tulipbee]

This is how I've tended to think of it as well; reincarnation as a kind of purgatory.

And the JW, SDA believes in annihilation that doesn't give purgatory, reincarnation and "absent from body means present with lord" a chance. What are we going to do with soul sleep?

 

[tulipbee]

I was simply being ironic. Reincarnation is a belief for those who do not know (or do not wish to know) Christ and what He has accomplished for humanity. It is precisely because there is judgment after death that the Lord Jesus Christ came into this world -- "to save sinners". Which means that reincarnation is wishful thinking.

There's still a waiting period somewhere cause Christ hasn't come yet, unless there's a parrellel universe.

 

[tulipbee]

I wouldn't say that the body is inconsequential.

I think that an over-emphasis on the body in the life of a person can lead to more sin.

You seem to be using the word 'body' in a different sense though..? A kind of non-physical sense?

I read that when a spirit leaves, it has a certain frequency and it seeks out another frequency like it. Put 10 clocks on the same wall and come back the next day and you'll find the pendulum swinging at the same direction. Harmony is a mysterious thing.

 

[Job8]

There's still a waiting period somewhere cause Christ hasn't come yet, unless there's a parrellel universe.

Not sure what you are referring to.

1. The dead in Christ go "TO BE WITH THE LORD".

2. The unsaved go to HADES to await their final judgment.

3. Death and Hades are ultimately cast into the LAKE OF FIRE.

4. Purgatory, transmigration, reincarnation, annihilation are all lies from Satan.

So there is no "parallel universe". All the more reason to take the Gospel to every creature. All the more reason why GOD NOW COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT (Acts 17:30).

 

[Job8]

What are we going to do with soul sleep?

Tell those who believe this myth that souls NEVER sleep. Bodies "sleep" in their graves. The ones who came up with this false teaching failed to carefully examine the New Testament teaching on the subject. There is such a thing as progressive revelation, and while the OT gives the impression that souls "sleep", everything changed after the resurrection of Christ. The righteous souls in Abraham's Bosom went to Heaven where they are very much alive (Heb 12:1,22-24). The unrighteous dead suffer torments in Hades and face the Great White Throne judgment (Lk 16:24).

 

[ToBeLoved]

I definately think that someone can be a Christain and still believe in reincarnation. It is very uncommon though because the Word says that man will only die once.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I wouldn't say that the body is inconsequential.

I think that an over-emphasis on the body in the life of a person can lead to more sin.

You seem to be using the word 'body' in a different sense though..? A kind of non-physical sense?

I mean body in the sense of this solid flesh frame--skin, tissue, muscle, bones, etc.

In Christianity the body matters, a non-bodied person isn't a whole person; and the Christian religion depends on the doctrine of the resurrection of the body--that the body rises and is transformed in the same way Christ was raised and transformed; from mortality to immortality, from perishable to imperishable.

Early Christians didn't believe in a matter-spirit duality, that was the product of Gnosticism and later Manicheanism; and with it a host of other ideas in which materiality was intrinsically bad and was something to be cast off and rejected. For most forms of Gnosticism the chief goal was a return to the realm of pure spirit through spiritual enlightenment, knowledge, gnosis.

However the historic Christian position has been that God is the author of all things, we confess for example, "We believe in one God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen." That is we go back to Genesis where after creation God declares of all things He has made, "It is exceedingly good".

The Incarnation means God has united Himself with our humanity, God became man. Jesus Christ, the Lord, is both God and human; and we see through His life and teachings that things here matter--how we treat people matters to God, creation matters, people matter, the conditions and affairs in which people find themselves are things which matter to God. And Christ died--the God-Man died--and He rose from the dead, in victory over death, victory over the powers of sin, hell, death, and the violence of this age in order to lift up creation in Himself in the hope and promise of eternity--eternal life. That is our hope, eternal life and eternal life doesn't mean a disembodied existence floating around as a specter, it means a full-bodied life in the age to come, the restoration of all things, new heavens and new earth. The renewal and restoration of all creation.

The dirt under our feet matters to God, and God purposes it for eternity, because it is--intrinsically--good and God will not see it pass away to nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dcalling]

I mean body in the sense of this solid flesh frame--skin, tissue, muscle, bones, etc.

In Christianity the body matters, a non-bodied person isn't a whole person; and the Christian religion depends on the doctrine of the resurrection of the body--that the body rises and is transformed in the same way Christ was raised and transformed; from mortality to immortality, from perishable to imperishable.

I like your post but I still doubt it. In the beginning everything is good but after the fall God cursed the earth. The body we have on earth is VERY likely not the one we are going to have in heaven, see

Matt 22:30-32, For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

 

[ViaCrucis]

I like your post but I still doubt it. In the beginning everything is good but after the fall God cursed the earth. The body we have on earth is VERY likely not the one we are going to have in heaven,

There is no body we have "in heaven", the resurrection of the body is when Christ returns, and creation restored (c.f. Romans 8, Isaiah 65, Revelation 21 & 22, 1 Corinthians 15)

see

Matt 22:30-32, For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God:‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Pay attention, in what way are the resurrected like the angels? "they neither marry nor are given in marriage" that is only similarity here.

-CryptoLutheran