Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[Brother Chris]

So you consider it luck when one reads and obeys the Bible?

Where does God demand sinless perfection? Perhaps you could provide passages which state such.

What about the Pharisees who were clean on the outside (covered), but on the inside were full of extortion and self-indulgence? Jesus said to first cleanse the inside that the outside may be clean also.

What about your righteousness? Jesus said in Matthew 5:20,
For I say to you, that unless YOUR righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Reading and obeying the bible for the sake of santification, that is required by for all Christians. But not for salvation.

God is holy and we are not. Our righteousness is still tainted with sin. Our own works are like filthy rags because of sin.

My righteousness does exceed that of the religious leaders, because my righteousness is not from my own works, but from Christ. His righteousness exceeds them all.

Why do you think the people in Matthew 7:21-23 are being denied entrance into the kingdom? Because in their own works they trusted, that's why they start yelling about all the stuff they did. That saves no one.

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

YES for ALL Past sins in a mans life means all of your repented sins.
Sins behind you , sins your confessing and repenting of,
Sins your not going to continue in?

He didn't just do it for one time ? now your being legalistic :/

The forgiveness and remission of all repented past sins is on going. Their is still sanctification AS LONG AS YOU STOP sinning

Do you know The 10 virgins Parable? What do you respond to this passage? This question is not being asked in a negative way btw

 

[FreeGrace2]

YES for ALL Past sins in a mans life means all of your repented sins.

That is an opinion, not Scripture.

He didn't just do it for one time ? now your being legalistic :/

Didn't you read the verses? He died for sins once for all. That means all sins for all time.

The forgiveness and remission of all repented past sins is on going.

What does this mean: "is on going"? Is Christ still on the cross, like the RCC icon shows? No. He died and was risen. So His forgiveness and remission has been completed. It is NOT on going.

Do you know The 10 virgins Parable? What do you respond to this passage? This question is not being asked in a negative way btw

I'm not answering any questions until you deal with the verses I've given that prove that Christ's death was for all sins.

If those verses don't say/mean that, one must prove it.

 

[Wryetui]

Eternal security is plainly indicated in:

Rom 8:38 there is nothing in the future that will separate us from the love of Christ.

John 10:28,29 there is no person (which includes even the believer) who can take us out of God's hand.

God's gifts, which include eternal life (Rom 6:23), salvation (Eph 2:8), and justification (Rom 5:17), are irrevocable (Rom 11;29).

So, in your opinion all I have to do is to have faith in Christ and that's it, saved and redeemed. So what's the point? I'm already saved, we and the Catholics are already saved because we already believe in Christ, isn't it?

If OSAS is such an important doctrine then why it didn't appear until Luther? Why the Church Fathers or the Saints never taught it? Why there are no saints that were made saints by the OSAS doctrine?

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

This says don't continue in sin clearly
As does Romans 3:25 clearly says past sins.

God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God


Romans 6:9-13,15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once:
but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

Hebrews 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself
Says nothing about current sins being covered or future.
It just says his sins
No implication of repented or sins currently being committed

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

I think it's clear to All men jesus died once
That's not stating anything about died for repented sins or unrepented sin
Hebrew 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

With Hebrews 10:10 I added 26

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Again once and for all doesn't take away for all repented sins in a mans life or un repented sins

Verse 26 does though clearly

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

Colossians 2:13,14 you are blaspheming against this passage knowingly or unknowingly

Read Colossians 3:1-7

You were raised from death with Christ. So live for what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.
Think only about what is up there, not what is here on earth. .
Your old self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God. Yes, Christ is now your life, and when he comes again, you will share in his glory. So put everything evil out of your life: sexual sin, doing anything immoral, letting sinful thoughts control you, and wanting things that are wrong.
And don’t keep wanting more and more for yourself, which is the same as worshiping a false god.
God will show his anger against those who don’t obey him, because they do these evil things. You also did these things in the past, when you lived like them.

 

[lori milne]

No you're not. Your view has been refuted. Way back on p. 56, and post #556, I challenged your view that Christ died only for "past sins" with this: "If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture. Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins. ephapax Thayer Definition: 1) once, at once 1a) all at once 1b) once for all iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS. Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins". Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25." And all of this was ignored. And there is another verse that refutes your view: Col 2;13,14 - 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. These verses refute your view that Christ died only for the so-called "past sins".

I did my best to answer all your versus against my better judgement of it being not in good cheer
Please no I'm just trying to be closed minded but rather open to anything you say.
These answers were of all honesty and in good cheer

 

[Brother Chris]

So, in your opinion all I have to do is to have faith in Christ and that's it, saved and redeemed. So what's the point? I'm already saved, we and the Catholics are already saved because we already believe in Christ, isn't it?

If OSAS is such an important doctrine then why it didn't appear until Luther? Why the Church Fathers or the Saints never taught it? Why there are no saints that were made saints by the OSAS doctrine?

No, you must be born again or you will not enter the kingdom of God (John 3). All people are commanded by God to repent of their sins and their own works, and believe the Gospel to be saved. I can assure you, many churches and denominations that associate themselves with Christ, believe that Jesus is real, but they're not saved. The demons believe all this, but are not saved. You must be born again. And this comes with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. God then gives the Holy Spirit to that person, and they begin to live a different way, because God changes their heart and their desires. They serve God, not to save themselves, but because they are already saved and possess eternal life. This is conversion.

 

[lori milne]

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]1-3‬ KJV)

 

[Marvin Knox]

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His kindness and grace toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:4-9

I'm hoping that most people reading this thread realize just how stupid the concept being put forward by Lori is.

To believe it one would have to ignore what is being said in this scripture completely or rewrite it to reflect this aberrant theology.

The idea would be that this merciful God so loved us that He died for us - has already made us alive, has already raised us up and has seated us on Christ's throne - all for the express purpose of showing forth His great grace and kindness in the ages to come.

Contrary to His stated eternal purpose in doing that - He will, if you don't do a good job at being a Christian, boot you off the throne, spiritually kill you again, and consign you to Hell.

Apparently this second phase of action toward you would be to display in the ages to come - His absolute mutability, two faced nature and lack of faithfulness.

Excuse me, but - Thanks but no thanks to such a God for His gift of temporary eternal life.

I'll just take that last verse in the passage for my anchor - Thank you very much!

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

 

[Brother Chris]

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]1-3‬ KJV)

This is an example of a church composed of religious unsaved people. They are dead, spiritually dead and are not born again. There probably were a few saved people in the church, and even they were being affected by the rest, and in danger of being removed from the church.

 

[lori milne]

This is an example of a church composed of religious unsaved people. They are dead, spiritually dead and are not born again. There probably were a few saved people in the church, and even they were being affected by the rest, and in danger of being removed from the church.

Everything in the word of God has been written for all men to truly understand and believe his words
We all have to ask are self where are we in each passage be spoken of.

And pray your the one in Gods favor vs his wrath

 

[lori milne]

This is an example of a church composed of religious unsaved people. They are dead, spiritually dead and are not born again. There probably were a few saved people in the church, and even they were being affected by the rest, and in danger of being removed from the church.

David and Galiath Was about a Boy and a giant

 

[lori milne]

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His kindness and grace toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:4-9 I'm hoping that most people reading this thread realize just how stupid the concept being put forward by Lori is. To believe it one would have to ignore what is being said in this scripture completely or rewrite it to reflect this aberrant theology. The idea would be that this merciful God so loved us that He died for us - has already made us alive, has already raised us up and has seated us on Christ's throne - all for the express purpose of showing forth His great grace and kindness in the ages to come. Contrary to His stated eternal purpose in doing that - He will, if you don't do a good job at being a Christian, boot you off the throne, spiritually kill you again, and consign you to Hell. Apparently this second phase of action toward you would be to display in the ages to come - His absolute mutability, two faced nature and lack of faithfulness. Excuse me, but - Thanks but no thanks to such a God for His gift of temporary eternal life. I'll just take that last verse in the passage for my anchor - Thank you very much! "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Rejecting the word of God but holding on to the verses that to you makes sinning ok is still choosing sin over God.

How about the complete word of God for your anchor not just one verse that tells YOU it's ok to sin,
It's a lie stop listening to the snake man!

Your choice to take a big bucket of lies vs the righteousness and Promise of God Has got to bel clear.
Don't you feel good when you do good
Don't you feel bad when you feel bad
Even your emotions no better then your own flesh!
Sad thing is Your not even being condemned or threaten you just willing put your crown down when you choose sin instead of God.
GOD will put his anger on you and you will be shut out!

Contend for the faith
Fight the good fight

If you could go back and make the choice for Adam you would choose to sin?


The humble love of Christ who washed his disciples feet wants to give that to you how can you refuse such humble and pure love over sin

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation‬ [bless and do not curse]3‬:[bless and do not curse]11, 18-22‬ KJV)

This won't Be for you if you don't stop choosing sin Over God. God is just he will let you choose

 

[lori milne]

No, you must be born again or you will not enter the kingdom of God (John 3). All people are commanded by God to repent of their sins and their own works, and believe the Gospel to be saved. I can assure you, many churches and denominations that associate themselves with Christ, believe that Jesus is real, but they're not saved. The demons believe all this, but are not saved. You must be born again. And this comes with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation. God then gives the Holy Spirit to that person, and they begin to live a different way, because God changes their heart and their desires. They serve God, not to save themselves, but because they are already saved and possess eternal life. This is conversion.

Don't you know what it is to have faith in Jesus means ?

Jesus was the word that became flesh
He is the word of God
To believe in him would mean to believe in every word of the bible not just Romans

Sin no more
Obey every commandment
Pick up your cross

If you really believe the you should know you can

 

[lori milne]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: ([bless and do not curse]Matthew‬ [bless and do not curse]7‬:[bless and do not curse]21-24‬ KJV)

 

[Marvin Knox]

Whenever I come across a thread where a poster is really far off the mark - I like to look up a few of their other threads and posts to see how they think and talk and what their pet doctrines are.

In this case it was quite an interesting trip down cuckoo bird lane.