Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself Says nothing about current sins being covered or future. It just says his sins No implication of repented or sins currently being committed
This was to free grace

And post #556 was to you:

"Originally Posted by lori milne
Romans 3:25
Clearly says past sins
Show me differently"
OK, I did, and I'll do it again.

Rom 3:25 - whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

This verse speaks of the fact that God has delayed dealing sin, but not that bypassing equates to justification. God's "forbearance", connected witht he phrase "passed over" in light of Paul's use of "forebearance" elsewhere (Rom 4:2), refers to a period of time before the cross when God did not punish men commensurate with their sins but exercises grace until Christ paid the penalty. This does not mean God did not forgive sins in the OT. He did, but tremporarily postponed the full payment of them until Christ's death on the cross.

iow, the OT animal sacrifice didn't actually atone for sin, but was a shadow of when Christ came and actually did atone for sin.

This verse is NOT about covering sins committed before we believed in Christ.

Further, the rest of Rom 3 drives home the point that the believer is JUSTIFIED by faith. Nothing about a partial justification, as your view indicates in the idea of "past sins".

If Christ only died for "past sins", as being claimed, then He didn't die for all of them, which is NOT stated anywhere in Scripture. Your view is wholly unsubstantiated in Scripture.

Further, the Greek word for "once for all" found in Rom 6:10, Heb 7:27, 9:12 and 10:10 are about His death for sins.

ephapax
Thayer Definition:
1) once, at once
1a) all at once
1b) once for all

iow, He died ONE TIME for ALL SINS.

Rom 6:10 - For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Heb 7:27 - 7who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Heb 9:12 - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

I hope these verses will put to rest your errant view of "past sins".

Jesus Christ died once for all sins. Your view misunderstands Rom 3:25.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The first two need to be read and responded to then I'll post the rest
Just don't want you to not see them

I would be happy if you would deal with my post #556.

 

[FreeGrace2]

.

The only point I was making was repented of would be past not unrepented sins

Does it say any ware that they are for unrepented sins ?

Post #556 speaks of Christ dying ONCE FOR ALL SINS.

There are no verses that say that Christ didn't die for unrepented sins.

If that were true, then who pays for those sins? No person has enough capital to pay for them. I think your view has large holes in it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I do believe we can loose our salvation because it is clear In more passages the not clear or contrary

Not true! Please provide even just 1 verse that says that a believer can lose their salvation.

This one is a clear contradiction to that idea
You can walk away or deny the faith

Walking away from the faith is NOT THE SAME as losing salvation. And Rom 8:38 even covers THAT; walking away from the faith.

If you disagree, please show me from the context of Rom 8:38 that Paul included any exception to "things future" that CAN separate us from the love of Christ.

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. ([bless and do not curse]1 Timothy‬ [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]8‬ KJV)

OK, deny the faith, worse than an infidel. But I don't see ANY words that mean "loss of salvation".

I try to weigh the entire word of God so j can see clearly what God says not a pastor or a theology

How about what the Bble SAYS. Like Rom 8:38 or John 10:28,29.

No offense

Non taken.

Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die:

The context in that verse is physical death. Not eternal death.

because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand
> Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul<

([bless and do not curse]Ezekiel&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]20-21&#8236; KJV)

This speaks of physical death as discipline for turning from righteousness.

As of now, you've still not provided any verses that plainly tell us that we can lose our salvation.

I would think one would be getting kinda tired trying to defend a view that cannot be defended from Scripture.

 

[lori milne]

Not true! Please provide even just 1 verse that says that a believer can lose their salvation. Walking away from the faith is NOT THE SAME as losing salvation. And Rom 8:38 even covers THAT; walking away from the faith. If you disagree, please show me from the context of Rom 8:38 that Paul included any exception to "things future" that CAN separate us from the love of Christ. OK, deny the faith, worse than an infidel. But I don't see ANY words that mean "loss of salvation". How about what the Bble SAYS. Like Rom 8:38 or John 10:28,29. Non taken. The context in that verse is physical death. Not eternal death. This speaks of physical death as discipline for turning from righteousness. As of now, you've still not provided any verses that plainly tell us that we can lose our salvation. I would think one would be getting kinda tired trying to defend a view that cannot be defended from Scripture.

Those two passages Alone expressed clearly you can walk away from your inheritance .
Romans against the rest of the bible is unbalanced

 

[lori milne]

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]6&#8236; KJV)

We are responsible
Why can't we HEED

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]12&#8236; KJV)

 

[lori milne]

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]6&#8236; KJV) We are responsible Why can't we HEED Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]12&#8236; KJV)

But your saved so don't worry don't bother taking heed

 

[lori milne]

OSAS can't loose their salvation ?

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]13-14&#8236; KJV)

You can become hardened
believing that sin is ok can help.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]15-19&#8236; KJV)

Believe what you want sinner ?
It's Your choice to walk in sin or not
And keep ignoring scripture that's clear


Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. ([bless and do not curse]Hebrews&#8236; [bless and do not curse]4&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]1&#8236; KJV)

Not OSAS your sins are covered brethren


This is to the churches,
Christians, brethren

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]2&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]7, 16-17&#8236; KJV)

But why only the churches and not OSAS is this speaking to?

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: ([bless and do not curse]Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]2&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]7, 26&#8236; KJV)

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]5&#8236; KJV)

Blot out what q does this mean if your predestined?
Heed? why can't we heed the warnings In the BIBLE ?


Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]11&#8236; KJV)

Over come what!?

Hold fast to what ?

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches
Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]3&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]21-22&#8236; KJV)

We need to over come Conditional we can have This!

Over come what
1john 5:2-3
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous


He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ([bless and do not curse]Revelation&#8236; [bless and do not curse]21&#8236;:[bless and do not curse]7-8&#8236; KJV)


This is the truth people GODS WORDS not MANS WORDS

1 John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Can Christian loose his salvation ??

Hebrew 10:24-26
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

 

[EmSw]

The context in that verse is physical death. Not eternal death.

This speaks of physical death as discipline for turning from righteousness.

Physical death? Do you make this stuff up?

Let's put your interpretation to the test.

Ezekiel 18:24 -
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

So we see a righteous man turning away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and abominations as a wicked man. God asks, "will he live?"

You interpret this to say, "will he live physically?" Every man will die physically, righteous and unrighteous.

Now let's read verse 21 and use your interpretation.

But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

So we see a wicked man turning from his sins, observes all God's statutes, and practices righteousness (good deeds). God says he will surely live, and shall not die. According to your interpretation, we should see men not dying physically.

Can you show us any men who have not, or will not die physically?

You are so eager to push your theology, you will interpret any verse to support your views. Physical death is not meant in these passages. Sorry, but it falls on its face, when viewed with reason and understanding.

 

[lori milne]

http://youtu.be/_iLm7Qg0nt0

Calvinism I feel and basically is pretty clear is the base believe if OSAS and hyper grace

Fun debate done by pretty flipping smart scholars

Free will vs Calvinism

 

[Zanting]

Physical death? Do you make this stuff up?

Let's put your interpretation to the test.

Ezekiel 18:24 -
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

So we see a righteous man turning away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and abominations as a wicked man. God asks, "will he live?"

You interpret this to say, "will he live physically?" Every man will die physically, righteous and unrighteous.

Now let's read verse 21 and use your interpretation.

But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

So we see a wicked man turning from his sins, observes all God's statutes, and practices righteousness (good deeds). God says he will surely live, and shall not die. According to your interpretation, we should see men not dying physically.

Can you show us any men who have not, or will not die physically?

You are so eager to push your theology, you will interpret any verse to support your views. Physical death is not meant in these passages. Sorry, but it falls on its face, when viewed with reason and understanding.

Amen...

 

[lori milne]

Physical death? Do you make this stuff up? Let's put your interpretation to the test. Ezekiel 18:24 - But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. So we see a righteous man turning away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and abominations as a wicked man. God asks, "will he live?" You interpret this to say, "will he live physically?" Every man will die physically, righteous and unrighteous. Now let's read verse 21 and use your interpretation. But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. So we see a wicked man turning from his sins, observes all God's statutes, and practices righteousness (good deeds). God says he will surely live, and shall not die. According to your interpretation, we should see men not dying physically. Can you show us any men who have not, or will not die physically? You are so eager to push your theology, you will interpret any verse to support your views. Physical death is not meant in these passages. Sorry, but it falls on its face, when viewed with reason and understanding.

Amen

 

[seekingsolace]

I'm sorry Lori but you are leaning on your own understanding, not the truth. The Bible has no contradictions at all, only an individuals understanding. To not study the truth in light of related passages, dispensations and such is dangerous ground. You can study the bible all your life and make no sense of it, this is common ground, because you aren't relying on and asking God for wisdom and understanding.

I would suggest purchasing a good study Bible, and a simple general theology book so you can see the truth without basing your information on prejudiced and false interpretations.

Proverbs 3:5-6
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths."


It's human arrogance to think that anything we can do will make up for our sinful ways. Grace is the means to salvation, it is Gods mercy and love.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Not true! Please provide even just 1 verse that says that a believer can lose their salvation. Walking away from the faith is NOT THE SAME as losing salvation. And Rom 8:38 even covers THAT; walking away from the faith. If you disagree, please show me from the context of Rom 8:38 that Paul included any exception to "things future" that CAN separate us from the love of Christ. OK, deny the faith, worse than an infidel. But I don't see ANY words that mean "loss of salvation". How about what the Bble SAYS. Like Rom 8:38 or John 10:28,29. Non taken. The context in that verse is physical death. Not eternal death. This speaks of physical death as discipline for turning from righteousness. As of now, you've still not provided any verses that plainly tell us that we can lose our salvation. I would think one would be getting kinda tired trying to defend a view that cannot be defended from Scripture."

Those two passages Alone expressed clearly you can walk away from your inheritance .

I'm not talking about our inheritance, which is based on works. I am talking about salvation, which is based on faith. And Rom 8:38 is about NOT being separated from Christ, which speaks of our salvation, not our inheritance.

It's difficult to have a discussion when one side seems to have no idea what is being discussed.

And there is NO WAY John 10:28,29 shows that one can walk away from salvation. Please explain what words have given you that impression.

Romans against the rest of the bible is unbalanced

This is quite an unbalanced statement, of course. There isn't anything in Romans that contradicts anything else in the Bible, so I have no idea what motivated this statement of yours. But since there is such a lack of any explanation for most of your statements, I guess we'll just have to guess.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"The context in that verse is physical death. Not eternal death.

This speaks of physical death as discipline for turning from righteousness."

Physical death? Do you make this stuff up?

lol. Why would one think that every reference to "death" means eternal death? That only reveals the lack of understanding of Scripture.

Read 1 Jn 5:16. Read 1 Cor 11:30. These are about God's divine discipline which included physical death. And don't expect such a death to be necessarily quick or painless.

Let's put your interpretation to the test.

If one interprets the wrong type of death to any passage, one will come up very short.

Ezekiel 18:24 -
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

So we see a righteous man turning away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and abominations as a wicked man. God asks, "will he live?"

You interpret this to say, "will he live physically?" Every man will die physically, righteous and unrighteous.

This passage is speaking of dying as a direct result of his choices. This is about physical death, whether one understands that or not.

The sin unto death is dying before you would have if you had not made those wrong choices. Such as 1 Cor 11:30. Or the entire first generation of the Exodus. None of them, except Joshua and Caleb made it to the promised land. The rest, including Moses, died and didn't receive the promise because of their disobedience. If one wants to argue that Moses went to hell, that would be a pretty silly argument, I think.

Can you show us any men who have not, or will not die physically?

Except for the rapture generation and the few men in the OT, everyone will die physically, thanks to Adam. However, the issue here is an early disciplinary death based on disobedience. We see this graphically in 1 Cor 5:5 where Paul described how the incestuous man would die (destruction of the flesh at the hand of Satan) for his sins. Yet we know that, just like the Eze 18 passage, he repented and lived. His flesh wasn't destroyed by Satan.

You are so eager to push your theology, you will interpret any verse to support your views.

This is nonsense. I'm happy to support what the Bible SAYS.

Physical death is not meant in these passages. Sorry, but it falls on its face, when viewed with reason and understanding.

What does really fall on its face is the one who fails to understand the meaning of the "sin unto death".

 

[FreeGrace2]

http://youtu.be/_iLm7Qg0nt0

Calvinism I feel and basically is pretty clear is the base believe if OSAS and hyper grace

Wrong. OSAS comes directly from Scripture. Calvinism, otoh, does not.

 

[Zanting]

OSAS...So will those who...in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils...still have the gift of eternal life?

What does "depart from the faith mean" to OSAS?

 

[seekingsolace]

'Depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons', is not believing the one true gospel, hence they aren't a true believer but followers of the doctrine of demons. The elect cannot be totally deceived from the truth, for the truth abides in them, and that is the seal of God.

I Timothy 4:1-5
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I Timothy 4:16
"Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you."

 

[Zanting]

'Depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons', is not believing the one true gospel, hence they aren't a true believer but followers of the doctrine of demons. The elect cannot be totally deceived from the truth, for the truth abides in them, and that is the seal of God.

So those who "depart from the faith" never had the faith?

 

[seekingsolace]

They never had faith in the true doctrine of salvation, thus they are not saved. Departing from the faith 'true doctrine', giving heed to the deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons 'false doctrine.'