Refuting OSAS in jesus name

[FreeGrace2]

Christians today feel grace saves them even in sin

2 points to consider:

#1 We are all born in sin.
#2 We ARE saved by grace. Eph 2:8 says so. Clearly.

men attempting to change grace into lasciviousness

Yes, so what? Does that mean we trash grace just because of idiots who try to change grace into lasciviousness?

Do we throw the baby out with the bath water?

Does grace scare or offend you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

We always must weigh out then entire word of God

Let's begin with some very clear verses:

Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Are you willing to weigh these verses and embrace them?

Then it's firsts Faith we all need to search for and With Fire.

What does "firsts Faith" mean? And where in the Bible would I find a reference to it? And where does the Bible say that we need to search for this "firsts faith"?

I even am on this search for true Faith because for me & my walk I desire righteousness through Faith for my family my son my self

It isn't "faith" that we need to search for. It's truth. And truth is found only in God's Word. Once we find truth, we need to believe it. And then be obedient to it.

And I want to make sure my moral compass is correct about going to hell and losing my faith

The only way for one's moral compass to be correct is when it lines up with the truth of God's Word.

 

[Zanting]

Christians today feel grace saves them even in sin and these versus in the bible speak of that same thing happening even before the NT is written!
men attempting to change grace into lasciviousness

I did know this

Have you ever hear of Simon magus, Nicolas of Samaria assumed founders of counterfeit Christianity

I have heard of many


Jude 3-4
Acts 8:9-24
Rev 2 nicholatians in Samaria
Gal 5 speaks of this as well
This was researched by many different sources
But
According to the findings of Walter veith Simon magus was a pegan priest and attempted to defile the Christians by teaching false Christianity.

Pretty cool to know your not just basing this off of a conspiracy and it's in the word of God

Yes it is.

I've been delving into the history of everything for a few years now. I really enjoy learning about ancient history, but my primary incentive is to learn the truth about Gods word right from the beginning. There is so much disinformation, misinformation, distorted truth and deception, throughout the ages, it becomes quite a challenge. But when it follows scripture, I know I'm learning the truth.

And I would have loved to have met Jesus during NT times. I think that would have been amazing.

 

[Zanting]

Ok, humor me. How does one lose salvation? What does he have to do or not do? How many times?

Salvation is far too serious a topic to humor anyone about. Besides, you don't need me to humor you. If you truly want to know, review some of the videos I've already posted on the subject.

And certainly, truly understanding salvation, what it means, is extremely important for all Christians to know anyway. There are many, many verses that talk about it, many already presented, by me and others. There are also lots presented in the videos.

Then check out scripture about what it means to work your salvation with trembling and in fear.

You can go from there to apostasy, and truly understand what it includes and involves.

I don't expect you, or anyone to take my word on such an important matter and its significance to our Christian walk, our Christian life. Read the Bible for yourself, as a whole, because the more you read and study Gods word, the more He reveals to each and every one of us.

 

[nobdysfool]

When Salvation becomes what you must do, rather than what God has done, and keeping it is about what you must do, you have taken your eyes off of God, and are trusting in yourself.

 

[Zanting]

When Salvation becomes what you must do, rather than what God has done, and keeping it is about what you must do, you have taken your eyes off of God, and are trusting in yourself.

Salvation is all about following His way, and enduing to the end. That is what Christians must do. If you believe otherwise, that is your choice.

 

[EmSw]

Let's begin with some very clear verses:

Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Are you willing to weigh these verses and embrace them?

FG2, are you willing to say that Judas' calling was irrevocable?

I'm sure Judas would be so willing to believe as you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are many, many verses that talk about it

There are no verses that talk about loss of salvation. There are a number that clearly indicate that the believer is eternally secure.

Then check out scripture about what it means to work your salvation with trembling and in fear.

Phil 2:12 isn't about getting or staying saved. It's about sanctification. There are 3 tenses of salvation:

saved from the penalty of sin; past tense
saved from the power of sin: present tense and what Phil 2:12 is about
saved from the presence of sin: future tense

 

[FreeGrace2]

When Salvation becomes what you must do, rather than what God has done, and keeping it is about what you must do, you have taken your eyes off of God, and are trusting in yourself.

Well said!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Salvation is all about following His way, and enduing to the end. That is what Christians must do. If you believe otherwise, that is your choice.

Not any verse based one's salvation on following Christ or enduring to the end.

The Bible is very clear about how to have eternal life, which is another term for salvation.

Mark 16:16
16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12
12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15
15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Forgiveness:

Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

Acts 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

Which of these verses mentions "enduring to the end" or following Jesus? None.

All of them are about placing one's faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FG2, are you willing to say that Judas' calling was irrevocable?

Yes, his call (invitation) was irrevocable.

I'm sure Judas would be so willing to believe as you.

I think you've confused being called with being saved. They aren't the same.

Matt 22:14 many are called, few are chosen. Judas was both called, or invited, and chosen (John 6:70).

I'm not sure of your point by mentioning Judas.

 

[lori milne]

Not any verse based one's salvation on following Christ or enduring to the end. The Bible is very clear about how to have eternal life, which is another term for salvation. Mark 16:16 16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Luke 8:12 12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Acts 4:12 12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 11:14 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.' Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Rom 1:16 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2 Tim 3:15 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Peter 1:5 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. 2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:36 36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 5:24 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 6:40 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord 1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. Forgiveness: Acts 10:43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. Acts 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 26:18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' Which of these verses mentions "enduring to the end" or following Jesus? None. All of them are about placing one's faith in Jesus Christ.

Please
Show me 1 verse thats says you can't loose your salvation with the word salvation in it
I can't find any?

When I read the bible versus just listening to what other men say it reads three def
1. Salvation / being in battle and waiting fir salvation from being killed OT
2. when we first are baptists or come to CHRIST
3. Salvation is near / the rapture

I don't see any uses out side of these three.
The OSAS use the word a lot but in statement. like you can't loose your salvation. And it's because you believe in a predestination!

So even if you murder steal rob kill a child even if you you're self didn't want it! It's predestined.


The only difference brother we have other then
All are called versus some are called,
is you skip the faith righteousness grace portion in your wording And just assume /claim salvation
Becuse you believe in predestined.

Ware I don't. So I use the order given to us in the word to insure my salvation.
My order
Your faith is what produces righteousness that gives you grace which then assures the predestined plan God has for us all aka you your salvation

Mind you I refute the predestined because
It is a bigger believe then just predestined
It also would be and Calvin has written it as well,
That God makes men sin and enjoys it because it was his plan
He for new because he willed it to be,
So all sin was created by God
Also if a baby is doesn't receive baptism and he dies the baby also goes to hell.

That makes him worse then satin and really makes satin the victim in the end!

My moral compass tells me if a theology causes the word to then
Become a contradiction then that theology is not spot on.
I respect your beliefs and do think if anyone in their Faith stumble on conflicts and confusing to search the truth out for them selfs.
Which is still what I'm doing because I to came to a confusing places ware sin was just something I started to adjust to versus repent from /:

 

[nobdysfool]

Salvation is all about following His way, and enduing to the end. That is what Christians must do. If you believe otherwise, that is your choice.

Who said I believed otherwise? Apparently my point was misunderstood. In the end, Salvation is not about anything that I do, and it is not earned by anything I do.

Salvation is about what God has already done, and my duty and obligation is to believe on Him, and serve Him, not as I see fit, but as He leads and guides.

As Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him Whom He has sent."

 

[nobdysfool]

Please
Show me 1 verse thats says you can't loose your salvation with the word salvation in it
I can't find any?

When I read the bible versus just listening to what other men say it reads three def
1. Salvation / being in battle and waiting fir salvation from being killed OT
2. when we first are baptists or come to CHRIST
3. Salvation is near / the rapture

I don't see any uses out side of these three.
The OSAS use the word a lot but in statement. like you can't loose your salvation. And it's because you believe in a predestination!

So even if you murder steal rob kill a child even if you you're self didn't want it! It's predestined.


The only difference brother we have other then
All are called versus some are called,
is you skip the faith righteousness grace portion in your wording And just assume /claim salvation
Becuse you believe in predestined.

Ware I don't. So I use the order given to us in the word to insure my salvation.
My order
Your faith is what produces righteousness that gives you grace which then assures the predestined plan God has for us all aka you your salvation

Mind you I refute the predestined because
It is a bigger believe then just predestined
It also would be and Calvin has written it as well,
That God makes men sin and enjoys it because it was his plan
He for new because he willed it to be,
So all sin was created by God
Also if a baby is doesn't receive baptism and he dies the baby also goes to hell.

That makes him worse then satin and really makes satin the victim in the end!

My moral compass tells me if a theology causes the word to then
Become a contradiction then that theology is not spot on.
I respect your beliefs and do think if anyone in their Faith stumble on conflicts and confusing to search the truth out for them selfs.
Which is still what I'm doing because I to came to a confusing places ware sin was just something I started to adjust to versus repent from /:

Sister, you have need of learning properly what you think to rail against. Many of your statements regarding the subject betray an alarming lack of correct knowledge, and many of them are cookie-cutter rantings by other uninformed people. I know you mean well, but most of what you rant against are straw men.

Predestination is biblical, as is election, and eternal security. And I would point out that your worship of God must not be based on how you imagine He is, or must be. Our worship of God must be based on Who He is, whether we understand it or not.

Do not try to make Him into something He is not, just to soothe your conscience about what seems unbearable to you. God is God, and we must worship Him in spirit and in Truth, as He IS, not as we would like Him to be.

 

[Brother Chris]

Salvation is far too serious a topic to humor anyone about. Besides, you don't need me to humor you. If you truly want to know, review some of the videos I've already posted on the subject.

And certainly, truly understanding salvation, what it means, is extremely important for all Christians to know anyway. There are many, many verses that talk about it, many already presented, by me and others. There are also lots presented in the videos.

Then check out scripture about what it means to work your salvation with trembling and in fear.

You can go from there to apostasy, and truly understand what it includes and involves.

I don't expect you, or anyone to take my word on such an important matter and its significance to our Christian walk, our Christian life. Read the Bible for yourself, as a whole, because the more you read and study Gods word, the more He reveals to each and every one of us.

Ok, once again I'll ask. What must I do, or not do, in order to lose salvation? Tell me.

 

[lori milne]

Sister, you have need of learning properly what you think to rail against. Many of your statements regarding the subject betray an alarming lack of correct knowledge, and many of them are cookie-cutter rantings by other uninformed people. I know you mean well, but most of what you rant against are straw men. Predestination is biblical, as is election, and eternal security. And I would point out that your worship of God must not be based on how you imagine He is, or must be. Our worship of God must be based on Who He is, whether we understand it or not. Do not try to make Him into something He is not, just to soothe your conscience about what seems unbearable to you. God is God, and we must worship Him in spirit and in Truth, as He IS, not as we would like Him to be.[/

Predestination doesn't do anything but add contradictions in the word
For he so loved the word
Jesus said he will be a lite to lead ALL MEN
That's isn't predestined that would take all of your scripture and mine and saying they are contradicting each other rather then attempting to research the word of God your self which is what I'm doing.
According to what I've learned so far not that I'm correct or your correct but their is in fact a predestination and that to me is for all men
To come to him which is why he never gives up
He will always forgive His children
He shows sorrow for sin or pain to what is only hurting us.

but what the bible says in a healthy Balanced manner is he is Love and can't have made sin but rather Angels and man choices of free will.
Other wise he could have just elected all men and not be considered a tyrant.

What I see in similarity to past religion is from a Jewish believe of the children of Israel as an elect in an almost identical manner.
But I have more learning to do yet

All in the name of Jesus are lord and savor
Who I am a servant to jot of mans theology or ones own interpretation but my own personal relationship and Faith
I don't have your faith or Calvin's
Just my own faith
And if we search for righteousness God will bless is it is written!
Amen

 

[EmSw]

Yes, his call (invitation) was irrevocable.


I think you've confused being called with being saved. They aren't the same.

Matt 22:14 many are called, few are chosen. Judas was both called, or invited, and chosen (John 6:70).

I'm not sure of your point by mentioning Judas.

If the calling was irrevocable, why not the gift?

Here is your pet scripture -

Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

 

[Zanting]

Ok, once again I'll ask. What must I do, or not do, in order to lose salvation? Tell me.

And again...see previous comments, and videos that I already posted on this topic.

 

[Zanting]

Who said I believed otherwise? Apparently my point was misunderstood. In the end, Salvation is not about anything that I do, and it is not earned by anything I do.

Salvation is about what God has already done, and my duty and obligation is to believe on Him, and serve Him, not as I see fit, but as He leads and guides.

As Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that you believe on Him Whom He has sent."

Indeed, Salvation encompasses and includes our entire walk with Jesus until He returns. Our Father Himself will judge each and everyone of us, with Jesus seated to His right. It is then salvation becomes manifest, it is then we are saved, and given eternal life with Him in heaven. Not before.

We are warned about apostasy. 2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[lori milne]

Indeed, Salvation encompasses and includes our entire walk with Jesus until He returns. Our Father Himself will judge each and everyone of us, with Jesus seated to His right. It is then salvation becomes manifest, it is then we are saved, and given eternal life with Him in heaven. Not before. We are warned about apostasy. 2 Peter 2:20-22 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

That's correct " salvation is near!"
It is the rapture so you truly can't loose what hasn't been given to you
Your aves when you come to CHRIST but saved from sin.
In the OT manny called on salvation for help with battle.

But if you search the Bible no place in the bible does it say anything about salvation being promised or predestined or yours regardless!
Not even a little!
Now faith is something we can loose and that is what makes a man sin and not repenting will in fact send him to hell!

Amen a