Reformation heroes overview

[Resha Caner]

What's sad is that Luther had no idea what he was talking about, and had no intention of ripping the Church apart. He, a Catholic, found a Catholic doctrine in a Catholic book.

I'm not sure what your purpose is, but if your hope is to change minds, this approach isn't going to work. It's more a "preaching to the choir" message.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm not sure what your purpose is, but if your hope is to change minds, this approach isn't going to work. It's more a "preaching to the choir" message.

I'm not trying to change minds, unless telling the Truth happens to do so. I want people to know the truth.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm not trying to change minds, unless telling the Truth happens to do so. I want people to know the truth.

OK. That's a good goal, but I've never met someone who subscribes to what they know to be false. Not to put words in your mouth, but maybe you mean you're trying to challenge certain beliefs and get people to think about them.

 

[Root of Jesse]

OK. That's a good goal, but I've never met someone who subscribes to what they know to be false. Not to put words in your mouth, but maybe you mean you're trying to challenge certain beliefs and get people to think about them.

Oh, so you think I know all the truth? I'm not that sure. But my Church holds the Truth, and I stand by my Church.

 

[Resha Caner]

Oh, so you think I know all the truth? I'm not that sure. But my Church holds the Truth, and I stand by my Church.

I'm not sure why you replied as you did. I've not said anything against you or your church.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I'm not sure why you replied as you did. I've not said anything against you or your church.

Because you suggested that I'm preaching to the choir, or trying to change minds...

I'm not sure what your purpose is, but if your hope is to change minds, this approach isn't going to work. It's more a "preaching to the choir" message.

 

[Resha Caner]

Because you suggested that I'm preaching to the choir, or trying to change minds...

Yes, and you clarified. I then said I've never seen anyone follow what they know to be false. That is, I've never heard a statement like, "I know my minister lies all the time, but I'm going to trust him." So it would be fruitless to make a statement that differs from what a person currently accepts and expect they will suddenly change their mind.

I assumed you know that and wouldn't do such a thing. So I was trying to understand your purpose better. I was asking if you are challenging people and hoping to make them think about their position?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, and you clarified. I then said I've never seen anyone follow what they know to be false. That is, I've never heard a statement like, "I know my minister lies all the time, but I'm going to trust him." So it would be fruitless to make a statement that differs from what a person currently accepts and expect they will suddenly change their mind.

I assumed you know that and wouldn't do such a thing. So I was trying to understand your purpose better. I was asking if you are challenging people and hoping to make them think about their position?

I don't believe any one person that way. I trust my Church, which Christ instituted, not some man.
What I do on here is not to offer my opinion, when it comes to what the Catholic Church teaches, but to correct misconceptions of what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[Resha Caner]

What I do on here is not to offer my opinion, when it comes to what the Catholic Church teaches, but to correct misconceptions of what the Catholic Church teaches.

OK. That's much clearer. I think I understand you now. So what is the extent of subjects your church teaches? Or, to ask it another way, are there subjects your church would say are outside its purview?

 

[Root of Jesse]

OK. That's much clearer. I think I understand you now. So what is the extent of subjects your church teaches? Or, to ask it another way, are there subjects your church would say are outside its purview?

Well, this thread is about the Reformation. My contribution is:

All misguided by the first ones, sad to say...What they, and most people don't realize is that the Church has been in a state of constant reformation for 2000 years. It is true that, at the time of the Reformation, it was still in need of reformation, but the Church was already in Reformation. As can be seen in modern day Catholic Church, it takes decades for changes to manifest themselves. If you look at what Vatican I and II did, and see where we stand in relation, you'll see.

 

[lismore]

In Him,


Bill

Hi Bill,

Here's another one, from my home town. George Wishart, gospel preacher, survived several assassination attempts then was burned at the stake by a Cardinal of questionably morality:

George Wishart

IMO this also shows why we should be wary of any institution of that ilk. When in the minority they says they wish to discuss with you, when in power they burn you.

God Bless

 

[BBAS 64]

Oh, so you think I know all the truth? I'm not that sure. But my Church holds the Truth, and I stand by my Church.

Spoken like a true blue member of the roman church... they say so, and Jesse belives them.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Spoken like a true blue member of the roman church... they say so, and Jesse belives them.

Ah, you think I just believe it because they say it? I investigated, and continue to investigate. I've not found one error in Catholic doctrine. And I've looked at them all intensely before I converted. You see, I spent nearly 50 years lost as a Protestant-different flavors.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Hi Bill,

Here's another one, from my home town. George Wishart, gospel preacher, survived several assassination attempts then was burned at the stake by a Cardinal of questionably morality:

George Wishart

IMO this also shows why we should be wary of any institution of that ilk. When in the minority they says they wish to discuss with you, when in power they burn you.

God Bless

As if burning Joan of Arc, a 19 year old girl, by the British Crown was something Protestants should be proud of?

At any rate, I think you're faith-ist (like a rac-ist), in that you think it happened only on one side, therefore you should throw out the other side. I'm not denying there aren't bad cardinals, bishops, priests, even popes. Why? Because humans are fallen. So any human has issues.
FWIW, the Catholic Church does more of what Jesus spoke of (feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, comforting the afflicted and imprisoned, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.), including educating the ignorant, than any other institution on earth, ever. So just because there are some bad ones doesn't mean you should throw out all the good.

 

[lismore]

As if burning Joan of Arc, a 19 year old girl, by the British Crown was something Protestants should be proud of?

There wasn't a British Crown until 1707, there wasn't a protestant until 1521, Joan of Arc was murdered in 1431. I'm afraid I have to burst your bubble and tell you that her murder was more likely down to the Catholic Church than any of the other sources you mentioned who at that time did not exist. God Bless.

 

[lismore]

At any rate, I think you're faith-ist (like a rac-ist), in that you think it happened only on one side, therefore you should throw out the other side. I'm not denying there aren't bad cardinals, bishops, priests, even popes. Why? Because humans are fallen. So any human has issues.
FWIW, the Catholic Church does more of what Jesus spoke of (feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, comforting the afflicted and imprisoned, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.), including educating the ignorant, than any other institution on earth, ever. So just because there are some bad ones doesn't mean you should throw out all the good.

Friend, you seem to be acting in a very irrational manner, projecting an image of being ultra-defensive and very biased. I'm not saying that the Catholic Church hasn't done good things. I added a Protestant Reformer to the list of hero Reformers provided in the OP. I added him because he's from my own home city. It's a fact of History that George Wishart was murdered by the RCC in a particularly cruel and evil way, if you have a problem with this fact then you have a problem, there's no way round it. It happened. God Bless

 

[Root of Jesse]

There wasn't a British Crown until 1707, there wasn't a protestant until 1521, Joan of Arc was murdered in 1431. I'm afraid I have to burst your bubble and tell you that her murder was more likely down to the Catholic Church than any of the other sources you mentioned who at that time did not exist. God Bless.

False. The British soldiers, under the auspices of the British monarchy, murdered her. While they may not have been Protestant, they called her a heretic. On the other hand, there were Catholics who were killed for their faith by Protestants, no? Which, after all, was the point.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Friend, you seem to be acting in a very irrational manner, projecting an image of being ultra-defensive and very biased. I'm not saying that the Catholic Church hasn't done good things. I added a Protestant Reformer to the list of hero Reformers provided in the OP. I added him because he's from my own home city. It's a fact of History that George Wishart was murdered by the RCC in a particularly cruel and evil way, if you have a problem with this fact then you have a problem, there's no way round it. It happened. God Bless

When you call the Catholic Church "any institution of that ilk", you rankled my haunches. But what I was trying to say is that there were Protestants murdering Catholics in England, too. It happened. Do YOU have a problem with it?

 

[FireDragon76]

Johann Esch and Heinrich Voes were the first martyrs for the Evangelical faith, in Vilvorde in 1522.

Britain had several Lutheran missionaries killed. Sir Patrick Hamilton was burned at the stake at St. Andrews in 1528. Henry VIII's regime itself executed numerous Protestants.

 

[lismore]

When you call the Catholic Church "any institution of that ilk", you rankled my haunches. But what I was trying to say is that there were Protestants murdering Catholics in England, too. It happened. Do YOU have a problem with it?

Yes of course. Catholics murdering protestants and protestants murdering catholics, both abhorrent and contrary to the word of God. Do you think the murder of George Wishart by the RCC was an abhorrent act? God Bless.