Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Bobber]

Sure there are, but Christ didnt die for them.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19

Jesus Christ reconciled the world unto himself....now each one in the world must decide will they be reconciled with God....as far as God is concerned he is reconciled to them.

 

[Bobber]

Those whom Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death, so they are legally saved.

So how about you expound on that a little and let's see where we go. What do you mean by saying legally saved?

 

[Bobber]

I dont see how this comment is even relevant. This is about the death of Christ reconciled to God them He died for while being enemies. You either believe it or you dont.

And you either believe he reconciled the world unto himself as found in 2 Cor 5:19 or you don't.

 

[Bobber]

Those who Christ died for were reconciled to God by His Obedience unto death Rom 5:10,

Romans 5:10 didn't even say what you say above. Here's what it says,

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Rom 5:10

You're always wanting this rhetoric to those who Christ died for to keep things slanting towards Calvinism. Much appreciated if you're going to quote a verse, quote the actual verse.

 

[fhansen]

You just promoting legalism and self righteous works to get saved.

I'm promoting God's work in us to get us saved as has been understood by the church in the east and the west since the beginning. Protestantism threw history out the door to a great extent, focusing on Scripture alone as the authority, and then focusing myopically on certain passages of Scripture while ignoring or forcing the rest to fit a flawed theology, while debating each other nonetheless on the meaning of Scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

We do believe and preach that every Justified and or Reconciled sinner before God, and that solely premised upon His Death and or Blood as Per Rom 5:9-10, that sometime in their sinful physical lifetime that they shall receive a actual Spiritual Application of Justification and their Imputed Righteousness whereby they will receive a knowledge of it by Faith ! 1

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok, is this a description of an enemy or friend: A person who believes Jesus has died for our sins and was resurrected, but don't confess him as Lord?

Maybe you don't want to answer that?

This has nothing to do with what the person does. They are unbelieving enemies.

 

[zoidar]

This has nothing to do with what the person does. They are unbelieving enemies.

My point is an unbeliever (enemy) can know enough to turn to Christ, to be reconciled (become friend).

 

[Brightfame52]

More on reconciliation !

One who has been legally reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ or to say by His Death Rom 5:10, even while being enemies and unbelievers, this reconciliation is also their Justification before God, simply because reconciliation legally denotes the non imputation of their sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So , legal reconciliation and non imputation of sin go hand and hand, and that can be the case only if God does not reckon them to be lawbreakers, because of the Blood of Christ shed for them alone, for Christ's sake alone, God hath accepted their persons as Righteous, not for anything in them by Nature, nor wrought in them by New Birth or the Spirit, but while they are being enemies by nature, and not for anything done by them , but for Christ's Sake alone ! It is not because of any Gospel Obedience such as repenting and believing, but because also of imputing the Righteousness and Obedience of Christ unto them, and this also while they themselves are being enemies by nature as well as being ignorant of their own Justification, and Reconciliation to God, solely by the Death of Christ ! 2

 

[Brightfame52]

My point is an unbeliever (enemy) can know enough to turn to Christ, to be reconciled (become friend).

See post 160

Reconciled to God while enemies !

Again, until you believe and understand that Christs death has legally reconciled, saved all for whom He died, all what you do is dead works and legalism ! No, legalism does not proceed from the love of God poured into our hearts. And without that love, as John makes clear, we don t even know...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Bobber]

Yes, it is.
"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

So one said this to you, "..... but His death is not credited to anyone until they come to Him in faith." and you stated the above. So why don't you give the full story of who God reconciled? He told who that was in 2 Cor 5:19 . He said it was the world. He didn't say the ELECT as you would have it. And that would have been the perfect place to put the word elect for it would be the proof of all proof....and yet he didn't say it was just the elect. So if you connect this below what you said,

But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you connect that to what the Bible is telling you that he reconciled the world unto himself....meaning every single person on the planet then you've come to the gospel truth. As it is I'd suggest you're holding out and you're putting out a false message.

 

[Doug Brents]

So one said this to you, "..... but His death is not credited to anyone until they come to Him in faith." and you stated the above. So why don't you give the full story of who God reconciled? He told who that was in 2 Cor 5:19 . He said it was the world. He didn't say the ELECT as you would have it. And that would have been the perfect place to put the word elect for it would be the proof of all proof....and yet he didn't say it was just the elect. So if you connect this below what you said,

But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If you connect that to what the Bible is telling you that he reconciled the world unto himself....meaning every single person on the planet then you've come to the gospel truth. As it is I'd suggest you're holding out and you're putting out a false message.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I do not believe that Jesus died only for the "elect", but for the whole world (as I have pointed out to brightflame many, many times with many, many Scripture passages.

Jesus' death did reconcile the whole world to Christ, but it did not save everyone. There is a difference between reconciliation and forgiveness. All of Creation was tainted by sin, and so Jesus' death reconciled all of Creation to God, but God put some conditions in place for us to receive forgiveness of sins, and to have the blessing that Jesus purchased on the cross applied to us individually. Those actions are repentance, confession of Jesus' name as our Lord, and water baptism (The Grace of God : Is the Cross of Christ)

 

[Brightfame52]

@Bobber

But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Being reconciled to God isnt the dead lost sinners responsibility, its Gods Gracious Work, and Christ accomplished the Work, and He applies the Work. Those who are reconciled to God by His Death are also saved by His Life. Read the verse Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The reconciled sinner must be saved, meaning the Spiritual Benefits of Christs Death must be applied to the already legally reconciled. he must be made to acquire and enjoy the salvation that God has willed for him by Christ. He must be converted in heart and life from a dead, unbelieving, and disobedient sinner to a living, believing, and obedient child of God. The power of God that works this radical change in the sinner is grace. None of this is the sinners responsibility, but Christs the Saviour.

 

[zoidar]

We do believe and preach that every Justified and or Reconciled sinner before God, and that solely premised upon His Death and or Blood as Per Rom 5:9-10, that sometime in their sinful physical lifetime that they shall receive a actual Spiritual Application of Justification and their Imputed Righteousness whereby they will receive a knowledge of it by Faith ! 1

The meaning of faith is then to get knowledge of have been reconciled? Doesn't sound too important, since you will be saved anyway right?

What on Earth is actual Spiritual Application? And why does it matter when you are already saved?

 

[Brightfame52]

Reconciled by His Death !

Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !

And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of [benefit of] of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.

The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To say that is false teaching !

 

[Doug Brents]

Reconciled by His Death !

Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !

And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of [benefit of] of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.

The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To say that is false teaching !

Wrong!
Is a sinner condemned? Yes. All sinners are condemned.
And they remain condemned until they come to knowledge of Christ, accept that knowledge, and demonstrate that belief in obedience.
Christ died for EVERYONE, not just the elect. There is not a single person that God did not die for. 1 John 2:1-2 - "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Is God a liar? NO!! So when He says that Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD it must be so. Correct? Or do you still refuse to trust the Word of God?

 

[Brightfame52]

Wrong!
Is a sinner condemned? Yes. All sinners are condemned.
And they remain condemned until they come to knowledge of Christ, accept that knowledge, and demonstrate that belief in obedience.
Christ died for EVERYONE, not just the elect. There is not a single person that God did not die for. 1 John 2:1-2 - "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Is God a liar? NO!! So when He says that Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD it must be so. Correct? Or do you still refuse to trust the Word of God?

Im right because the scripture is right. Sinners who Christ died for are'nt condemned while they are unbelieving enemies, because they are reconciled to God. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[zoidar]

Im right because the scripture is right. Sinners who Christ died for are'nt condemned while they are unbelieving enemies, because they are reconciled to God. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Do you hear how contradicting that sounds? Enemies under wrath, yet not under condemnation....

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you hear how contradicting that sounds? Enemies under wrath, yet not under condemnation....

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:3

who said they were enemies under wrath ? Not me. Not unless you can provide that statement and i stated it.

 

[zoidar]

who said they were enemies under wrath ? Not me. Not unless you can provide that statement and i stated it.

You mean God's elect were enemies but not under wrath? This sounds even more confusing. In what way were they seen by God as enemies then?

To be an enemy of God means be under God's wrath. If you are reconciled to God you are not an enemy anymore, thus not under wrath or condemnation.