Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Brightfame52]

You misunderstand and devalue the purpose of God in the work of His Son. God's purpose has never been to suddenly decide that righteousness no longer mattered-but to restore righteousness to His wayward creation, which was never created to sin, as He reconciles it to Himself. So...

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:34

Jesus did more that accomplish your forgiveness but also accomplishes your justice by bringing you into right stead with God, the only true source of authentic righteousness for man.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:3-4, 12-14

"This gift of righteousness is the love that's been poured into believers by the Spirit (Rom 5:5). It's the life of God in us, God who is love (1 John 4:8), the love that fulfills the law and excludes sin by its nature" (Rom 13:10).

Thus enabled and empowered, we may finally overcome the sin that condemns us (Rom 8:1), the right way now, God's way, with Him. And so the church can rightly teach:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

And to the extent that we understand this, we understand the gospel.

You continue to devalue the Death of Christ, it reconciled to God, saved, all for whom He died Rom 5:10. Until you understand this, everything else is dead works religion

 

[zoidar]

2 Cor 5:19 Preaching Reconciliation cont

I have shown from scripture that the Word of Reconciliation does include non imputation of sin 2 Cor 5:19, which means all those reconciled to God by the death of His Son are born into this world, yes as sinners by nature and depraved and enemies to God, but with no sin legally charged unto them ! They have a clean slate before God. Now for the next Gospel point of reconciliation and non imputation, it also means for those reconciled remission or forgiveness of sins, Notice Rom 4:7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

The word forgiven here in the greek means this:

"to send away, set free;" also "to let alone," To be cancelled !

The idea is also that their sin debt to God's Law and Justice has been covered ! They are no longer in the face of God with regard to punishment due unto them !

Now Vs 8 helps clarify Vs 7, that is sins are forgiven and cancelled, and covered because they are not charged to them, because they are or have been charged to their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ.

In light of this, the Reconciled world of 2 Cor 5:19, this Blessed World that the Lord WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN, is a forgiven World, the sins and trespasses of this World are covered !

So let it be known that the Reconciled World of 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 5:10a is a blessed, forgiven and justified World ! And for any to appeal to this verse to prove that Christ died for all without exception, they are guilty of wresting the scripture, and showing their willful ignorance of the Truth of the Gospel ! 1

Waiting for your explanation what difference faith does.

 

[fhansen]

You continue to devalue the Death of Christ, it reconciled to God, saved, all for whom He died Rom 5:10. Until you understand this, everything else is dead works religion

Nah-you should read those verses in my previous post carefully, objectively, for yourself. As it is you've bought into a novel gospel, a tradition of men who forsook the original Christian faith and replaced it with a significantly skewed version. Properly valuing God's work means to understand it, to know His will and to do it as best we can with the grace He's given.

 

[Brightfame52]

Nah-you should read those verses in my previous post carefully, objectively, for yourself. As it is you've bought into a novel gospel, a tradition of men who forsook the original Christian faith and replaced it with a significantly skewed version. Properly valuing God's work means to understand it, to know His will and to do it as best we can with the grace He's given.

Again, until you believe and understand that Christs death has legally reconciled, saved all for whom He died, all what you do is dead works and legalism !

 

[Doug Brents]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

Jesus said, "It is finished!" This is the Greek word Tetelestai. It is an accounting term, which means "the debt is paid".
Then in Rom 4, we are told that Jesus' righteousness is "credited" to us in the place of our unrighteousness. Again, this is an accounting term meaning to put a credit on a person's account.

Jesus paid the debt for the whole entire world, every single soul that has ever been or will be conceived. But the credit is not applied to an individual's account until that person puts their own faith in Christ as Abraham did in God.

 

[Doug Brents]

All for whom Christ died benefit from it, are saved unto Eternal Glory

And again, you keep spouting Calvin's false doctrine. You have already been shown that Christ died for EVERY SINGLE SOUL THAT HAS EVER OR WILL EVER BE CONCEIVED. If you cannot accept that, then you cannot be trusted to speak on Biblical matters in any way.

 

[fhansen]

Again, until you believe and understand that Christs death has legally reconciled, saved all for whom He died, all what you do is dead works and legalism !

No, legalism does not proceed from the love of God poured into our hearts. And without that love, as John makes clear, we don t even know Him, let alone do the good that brings eternal life as Paul insists we must. He objects to a false righteousness, works of the law", as he should. Read the bible for yourself, instead of through the lens of false or erroneous theologies.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus said, "It is finished!" This is the Greek word Tetelestai. It is an accounting term, which means "the debt is paid".
Then in Rom 4, we are told that Jesus' righteousness is "credited" to us in the place of our unrighteousness. Again, this is an accounting term meaning to put a credit on a person's account.

Jesus paid the debt for the whole entire world, every single soul that has ever been or will be conceived. But the credit is not applied to an individual's account until that person puts their own faith in Christ as Abraham did in God.

Those Christ died for, by His Death alone, they are reconciled to God, they are legally saved from the penalty of their sins, while they are unbelievers.

 

[Brightfame52]

And again, you keep spouting Calvin's false doctrine. You have already been shown that Christ died for EVERY SINGLE SOUL THAT HAS EVER OR WILL EVER BE CONCEIVED. If you cannot accept that, then you cannot be trusted to speak on Biblical matters in any way.

Rom 5:10 is Gods Truth

 

[Brightfame52]

No, legalism does not proceed from the love of God poured into our hearts. And without that love, as John makes clear, we don t even know Him, let alone do the good that brings eternal life as Paul insists we must. He objects to a false righteousness, works of the law", as he should. Read the bible for yourself, instead of through the lens of false or erroneous theologies.

If you dont believe that people Christ died for are legally Justified before God, saved and forgiven of all sin, by His Precious Blood alone, even before they believe, and while still enemies, then yes, all your so called obedience is nothing but the flesh and legalism

 

[Doug Brents]

Those Christ died for, by His Death alone, they are reconciled to God, they are legally saved from the penalty of their sins, while they are unbelievers.

Those Christ died for are every single human soul that has ever been, or ever will be, born.
And that last phrase is a lie directly from the heart of Satan. Christ died to make a way for salvation to be received, but His death is not credited to anyone until they come to Him in faith.

Rom 5:10 is Gods Truth

Yes, it is.
"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
But you seem to be thinking that just because we are reconciled to God through His death, that we have no responsibility to take action to receive His blessing. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are dozens (maybe hundreds) of places where we are told that we are saved through our faith. Our faith, our actions, in response to His sacrifice, is what brings the benefit of that sacrifice to us (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[zoidar]

Those Christ died for, by His Death alone, they are reconciled to God, they are legally saved from the penalty of their sins, while they are unbelievers.

To be true to the text, it doesn't say unbelievers, it says enemies.

 

[Brightfame52]

To be true to the text, it doesn't say unbelievers, it says enemies.

Same thing, its referring to enemies in their minds by wicked works as Per Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In fact, it means that they were haters of God, the word enemie echthros:

1. hated, odious, hateful
2. hostile, hating, and opposing another
   1. used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
      1. opposing (God) in the mind

And yet even when they hated and opposed God, they were reconciled to Him, in His Favor.

 

[zoidar]

Same thing, its referring to enemies in their minds by wicked works as Per Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

In fact, it means that they were haters of God, the word enemie echthros:

1. hated, odious, hateful
2. hostile, hating, and opposing another
   1. used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
      1. opposing (God) in the mind

And yet even when they hated and opposed God, they were reconciled to Him, in His Favor.

Do we agree an enemy of God, an unbeliever can believe the fact that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected for our salvation and still be an unbeliever, if he has not received Christ as his Lord yet? To be a believer you need to confess Christ as your Lord right? Not just believe facts.

 

[fhansen]

If you dont believe that people Christ died for are legally Justified before God, saved and forgiven of all sin, by His Precious Blood alone, even before they believe, and while still enemies, then yes, all your so called obedience is nothing but the flesh and legalism

I believe that Christ died for all so that all may finally overcome the disobedience that kept them alienated form God. Some will come while others will not. If you think that the new covenant/gospel amounts to some kind of reprieve form the obligation for man to be obedient-to be and to act righteously- as long as they believe some formula and profess some mantra then you have failed to understand the gospel and the purpose of God in it all.

Again, love fulfills the law apart from legalism:

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13
"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify." Rom 3:21

 

[Brightfame52]

Legally Reconciled first !

All those that Christ died for are legally, but not experimentally reconciled to God in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes here in Rom 5:10a Paul is only speaking of Reconciliation legally before God, no sin has been imputed to our charge. Even when those Christ died for are yet enemies and unbelievers they have been reconciled to God; However he does goes on to speak on their experimental Reconciliation [by His Death and Life] as a sure event to transpire in their life, this he does when he states " Much more, being Reconciled [while enemies] we SHALL be saved by His Life" Now this phrase 'shall be saved by His Life" means their experimental reconciliation is certain, which is what he means here Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now in the Rom 5:10a passage Paul teaches that all for whom Christ died are reconciled to God legally, even while experimentally they were being enemies; and because of that reconciliation legally, they shall be saved from being enemies, which is what Paul stated to the believing Colossians here in Col 1:21, where Paul states they were once [past tense] enemies. But remember, even while being enemies in their mind, they had legally still been Reconciled to God by Christ's Death, but now they have been experimentally Reconciled.

So Paul Teaches by the Death of Christ a Twofold Reconciliation effected by Christ's Death, One which is solely legal, it being effected even while they are being enemies Rom 5:10a; and #2 One that is effected that saves them experimentally out of being enemies in their minds Col 1:21, and Both are effected by the Death of Christ Col 1:22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through[because of His] death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now understand this also, This also confirms that its Through Christ's Death as the Meritorious cause it effects both legal and experimental Reconciliations to God, even as it is called 'being saved by His Life" in Rom 5:10b !

So for anyone to say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save one experimentally, they are liars and speak against the Truth !! For anyone to tamper with the Saving Efficacy of the Meritorious Death of Christ, His Blood and Cross, they are an enemy who perverts the Right ways of the Lord Acts 13:10

10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

The challenge is out for anyone to prove anything, any one point not true in this post, that sets forth truthfully the Gospel of Reconciliation by the Blood of Christ !

 

[Brightfame52]

Do we agree an enemy of God, an unbeliever can believe the fact that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected for our salvation and still be an unbeliever, if he has not received Christ as his Lord yet? To be a believer you need to confess Christ as your Lord right? Not just believe facts.

I just shared with you what an unbeliever is, either you agree or dont. The point is still when still active enemies of God, hating Him, those for whom He died were nevertheless reconciled to God, legally saved from their sins, by His death for them.

 

[Brightfame52]

I believe that Christ died for all so that all may finally overcome the disobedience that kept them alienated form God. Some will come while others will not. If you think that the new covenant/gospel amounts to some kind of reprieve form the obligation for man to be obedient-to be and to act righteously- as long as they believe some formula and profess some mantra then you have failed to understand the gospel and the purpose of God in it all.

Again, love fulfills the law apart from legalism:

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom 2:13
"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify." Rom 3:21

You just promoting legalism and self righteous works to get saved.

 

[zoidar]

I just shared with you what an unbeliever is, either you agree or dont. The point is still when still active enemies of God, hating Him, those for whom He died were nevertheless reconciled to God, legally saved from their sins, by His death for them.

Ok, is this a description of an enemy or friend: A person who believes Jesus has died for our sins and was resurrected, but don't confess him as Lord?

Maybe you don't want to answer that?

 

[Bobber]

One of the reasons why everyone Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death only, even while they are enemies or unbelievers , is because there is no sins against God's Law imputed to them, Christ's death has paid in full for them, and God has nothing against them, even while they themselves are enemies and unbelievers.

So its impossible for unbelievers whom Christ died for, to at anytime be considered one of the unbelievers.....

Hold it, hold it, hold it......I notice you speak around a verse but you don't quote it. You inject everyone Christ died for, which a Calvinist would say.....but you never actually quoted the verse about the scope or measure of who Christ reconciled Let's look at it below,

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19

You would put forth that Christ has reconciled what you consider to be the elect.....that is not however what the scripture says. It says he reconciled THE WORLD. Not just the lucky ones or the especially blessed....but the world! Is this universalism then? Nope.

But as far as God is concerned the world has the stamp of redemption upon it. As far as God is concerned he's reconciled ALL, BUT....each one must choose to be reconciled to God by their decision. As far as God is concerned he's done his part. He's reconciled himself with us but now we must choose to be reconciled to him. If we don't choose to become such then they'll not have salvation realized in their life even though it belonged to them as a member of humanity.