Reconciled to God while enemies !

[fhansen]

@fhansen



Absolutely false, it took place at the death of Christ Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciliation means that the individual, beginning as His enemy, is reconciled with God, meaning that he now enjoys the fellowship with God that he was created for. Since Christ died to reconcile all, this fellowship only takes place as the person "appropriates" it, as he turns to God in faith. IOW, we don't attempt to stop being a sinner -by obedience of the law-in order to please God and become His sons, rather, Jesus did that for us so that now we can humbly turn to and enter communion with Him first, naked in our sin-and then He does the work of cleansing and justifying, forgiving sin while putting His law on our minds and writing it on our hearts.

 

[Brightfame52]

And yet the man to whom the Lord does not only impute sin, but what then follows in the resurrection if and when the man is dealt with , not as a son.... horrible fate awaits!

I dont know what you talking about, sounds like from out in left field.

 

[Brightfame52]

Reconciliation means that the individual, beginning as His enemy, is reconciled with God, meaning that he now enjoys the fellowship with God that he was created for. Since Christ died to reconcile all, this fellowship only takes place as the person "appropriates" it, as he turns to God in faith. IOW, we don't attempt to stop being a sinner -by obedience of the law-in order to please God and become His sons, rather, Jesus did that for us so that now we can humbly turn to and enter communion with Him first, naked in our sin-and then He does the work of cleansing and justifying, forgiving sin while putting His law on our minds and writing it on our hearts.

You deny reconciliation by the death of Christ as Per Rom 5:10 which is unbelief.

 

[fhansen]

You deny reconciliation by the death of Christ as Per Rom 5:10 which is unbelief.

No, I affirm reconciliation when a person is actually in a state of reconciliation with God, meaning that he knows, believes, in, hopes in, and loves Him. That relationship is the basis of all true justice or righteousness for man. Faith is an absolutely essential part of that "equation" as the first right step that a man can make to enter this vital union with his Creator. Don't get hung up on isolated passages but understand them in the light of the rest-along with the light of the historic understanding of Christianity.

 

[Brightfame52]

No, I affirm reconciliation when a person is actually in a state of reconciliation with God, meaning that he knows, believes, in, hopes in, and loves Him. That relationship is the basis of all true justice or righteousness for man. Faith is an absolutely essential part of that "equation" as the first right step that a man can make to enter this vital union with his Creator. Don't get hung up on isolated passages but understand them in the light of the rest-along with the light of the historic understanding of Christianity.

A Person for whom Christ died is in an actual state of reconciliation by His death while they are enemies, but you deny it. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now as enemies, faith cannot be part of the equation, they are still in unbelief as enemies.

 

[zoidar]

A Person for whom Christ died is in an actual state of reconciliation by His death while they are enemies, but you deny it. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now as enemies, faith cannot be part of the equation, they are still in unbelief as enemies.

Enemies are reconciled, meaningly becoming friends. They are not still enemies after being reconciled. If a person has not turned to Christ yet, the person is still enemy. Obviously I have to add.

 

[fhansen]

A Person for whom Christ died is in an actual state of reconciliation by His death while they are enemies, but you deny it. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now as enemies, faith cannot be part of the equation, they are still in unbelief as enemies.

God gives us the grace-the gift of faith-while we are yet enemies. That's the only way it can work; it's all about grace; we cannot lift a finger to find God and to save ourselves apart from Him. But we must respond, or else nothing Jesus did for us will matter. IOW, as Augustine put it, "He who created you without your consent does not save you without your consent". Without God throwing the life preserver we cannot possibly be saved. But we must grab hold-and remain holding on- picking up our cross daily and following. Then He will judge at the end of the day how we did with what we've been given. And, again, Christ died for all.

The idea that we are irreversibly changed and saved all at once, based on a self-assessed level or quality of faith, such that we cannot lose that status, is a novel idea, foreign to the gospel. We can't even predict whether or not we'll persevere. God, alone, knows with perfect certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not.

 

[Brightfame52]

Enemies are reconciled, meaningly becoming friends. They are not still enemies after being reconciled. If a person has not turned to Christ yet, the person is still enemy. Obviously I have to add.

They were reconciled to God While being enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Brightfame52]

New International Version
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

New Living Translation
You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.

English Standard Version
in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

Thats True, but they were still reconciled to God while in that condition, enemies ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

See that wicked lifestyle cant devalue the Merits of Christs Blood/Death !

 

[Brightfame52]

God gives us the grace-the gift of faith-while we are yet enemies. That's the only way it can work; it's all about grace; we cannot lift a finger to find God and to save ourselves apart from Him. But we must respond, or else nothing Jesus did for us will matter. IOW, as Augustine put it, "He who created you without your consent does not save you without your consent". Without God throwing the life preserver we cannot possibly be saved. But we must grab hold-and remain holding on- picking up our cross daily and following. Then He will judge at the end of the day how we did with what we've been given. And, again, Christ died for all.

The idea that we are irreversibly changed and saved all at once, based on a self-assessed level or quality of faith, such that we cannot lose that status, is a novel idea, foreign to the gospel. We can't even predict whether or not we'll persevere. God, alone, knows with perfect certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not.

They are reconciled to God while unbelieving enemies and while hating God. Rom 5:10

 

[Brightfame52]

"They" is a small subset of people.
As all Scripture shows, there are more "they" NOT ever reconciled to God, not ever saved.

They are all for whom Christ died. Its a number no man can number.

 

[fhansen]

They are reconciled to God while unbelieving enemies and while hating God. Rom 5:10

That only means that their sins are paid and atoned for. IOW God loves the world (John 3:16). That doesn't mean that we even care enough to believe and turn to Him now. Salvation is not universal.

 

[Brightfame52]

So ? There are still many, most according to Scripture, who do not benefit at all in the life to come.

All for whom Christ died benefit from it, are saved unto Eternal Glory

 

[Brightfame52]

That only means that their sins are paid and atoned for. IOW God loves the world (John 3:16). That doesn't mean that we even care enough to believe and turn to Him now. Salvation is not universal.

It means they are eternally saved while unbelieving enemies. To be reconciled to God is Salvation

 

[fhansen]

It means they are eternally saved while unbelieving enemies. To be reconciled to God is Salvation

To be-and to remain-reconciled, and therefore in union, with God is salvation. Another way of stating this, simply: To the extent that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves our justice or righteousness, and therefore our salvation, would be attained and our perfection, purpose or telos made complete. To the extent that we sin or return to the flesh, we prove that we don't really know or love God. Justification places us on a journey, towards God, that begins here but is only completed in the next life when we meet Him "face to face".

There is absolutely no salvation without our also becoming holier, increasingly like Him. The two, salvation and righteousness, are intrinsically connected.

 

[Brightfame52]

To be-and to remain-reconciled, and therefore in union, with God is salvation. Another way of stating this, simply: To the extent that we love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves our justice or righteousness, and therefore our salvation, would be attained and our perfection, purpose or telos made complete. To the extent that we sin or return to the flesh, we prove that we don't really know or love God. Justification places us on a journey, towards God, that begins here but is only completed in the next life when we meet Him "face to face".

There is absolutely no salvation without our also becoming holier, increasingly like Him. The two, salvation and righteousness, are intrinsically connected.

See You devalue the Person and Work of Christ, they were reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[fhansen]

See You devalue the Person and Work of Christ, they were reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

You misunderstand and devalue the purpose of God in the work of His Son. God's purpose has never been to suddenly decide that righteousness no longer mattered-but to restore righteousness to His wayward creation, which was never created to sin, as He reconciles it to Himself. So...

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:34

Jesus did more that accomplish your forgiveness but also accomplishes your justice by bringing you into right stead with God, the only true source of authentic righteousness for man.

"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Rom 3:21-22

"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!" Rom 5:17

"When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life." Rom 6:20-22

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God." Rom 8:3-4, 12-14

"This gift of righteousness is the love that's been poured into believers by the Spirit (Rom 5:5). It's the life of God in us, God who is love (1 John 4:8), the love that fulfills the law and excludes sin by its nature" (Rom 13:10).

Thus enabled and empowered, we may finally overcome the sin that condemns us (Rom 8:1), the right way now, God's way, with Him. And so the church can rightly teach:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

And to the extent that we understand this, we understand the gospel.

 

[WilliamK76]

Romans 5:10 says those who Christ died for were reconciled to God while being enemies doesnt it ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Amen, this is a glorious revelation to the few who can receive it. I’m sure the thief on the cross was jumping for joy when Jesus/God made him aware of this revelation when he entered into heaven. Hallelujah! He had no time on earth to learn these things. The self righteous shall forever nash their teeth and live in misery over such a revelation.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Cor 5:19 Preaching Reconciliation cont

I have shown from scripture that the Word of Reconciliation does include non imputation of sin 2 Cor 5:19, which means all those reconciled to God by the death of His Son are born into this world, yes as sinners by nature and depraved and enemies to God, but with no sin legally charged unto them ! They have a clean slate before God. Now for the next Gospel point of reconciliation and non imputation, it also means for those reconciled remission or forgiveness of sins, Notice Rom 4:7

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

The word forgiven here in the greek means this:

"to send away, set free;" also "to let alone," To be cancelled !

The idea is also that their sin debt to God's Law and Justice has been covered ! They are no longer in the face of God with regard to punishment due unto them !

Now Vs 8 helps clarify Vs 7, that is sins are forgiven and cancelled, and covered because they are not charged to them, because they are or have been charged to their Surety, the Lord Jesus Christ.

In light of this, the Reconciled world of 2 Cor 5:19, this Blessed World that the Lord WILL NOT IMPUTE SIN, is a forgiven World, the sins and trespasses of this World are covered !

So let it be known that the Reconciled World of 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 5:10a is a blessed, forgiven and justified World ! And for any to appeal to this verse to prove that Christ died for all without exception, they are guilty of wresting the scripture, and showing their willful ignorance of the Truth of the Gospel ! 1

 

[Brightfame52]

If Christ Jesus in the flesh on earth died for you, ... ...

what then would you choose if given a choice - to obey Him or to crucify Him again ?

This matter has nothing to do with the choices of men. Those for whom Christ died are reconciled to God, legally saved from the penalty of their sins, God is at Peace with them, and this is true fact even while they are enemies.