Reconciled to God while enemies !

[dwb001]

Since thats your best shot, I rest my case

You have not presented a case.

 

[fhansen]

More false teaching, Christs death actually reconciled to God them He died for Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

No reconciliation takes place until the person turns to God in faith, acknowledging his need for reconciliation, his need for God. This is TRUE teaching, the consistent teaching of the church since the beginning and reflected in the writings of the ECFs as well. Faith is both a gift of grace-and a human choice, to accept and act upon that gift. Man is obligated to make that choice as his justice/rightounessnes, not to mention his purpose, is realized only by virtue of his nearness to God. God gives us the grace to do it as he appeals to and draws us to Himself, but will not outright cause man to turn to Him, or to remain in Him.

 

[Brightfame52]

You have not presented a case.

None that you can see, thats not my fault

 

[Brightfame52]

@fhansen

No reconciliation takes place until the person turns to God in faith

Absolutely false, it took place at the death of Christ Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[dwb001]

None that you can see, thats not my fault

Actually it is.

 

[zoidar]

Im not able to prove Spiritual Truth to you, thats above my pay grade, However I can witness the Truth to you, that sinners Christ died for are legally saved, forgiven, Justified by God while they are yet unbelieving enemies. Read Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being reconciled to God in scripture means God doesnt impute sin to the sinners Christ died for 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now if you dont believe this witness, you are yet in unbelief !

You still have not answered what faith does and what the purpose of faith is if we are already legally saved?

 

[zoidar]

More false teaching, Christs death actually reconciled to God them He died for Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

A person is an enemy of God until he repents and puts his faith in Christ. Then God reconciles the person from being an enemy to becoming a friend of God. That's Romans 5:10 for you.

 

[zoidar]

No reconciliation takes place until the person turns to God in faith, acknowledging his need for reconciliation, his need for God.

Well said! Fully agree! Strange teachings have sadly found their way into church. The Reformation brought a lot of good stuff to the table, but also a lot of junk. (Sorry my fellow Protestants! )

 

[zoidar]

If I give you a paper check (remember those things? )
for one dollar that you can cash at the bank it is written on ,

and you cut that paper check up into little tiny pieces such that no two letters on the printed check are together anymore,

do you believe the bank, or anyone else at all, will cash that check for you ?

no, no one will.

Likewise, no idolator, fornitcator, pervert, thieve, adulterer
who continues living under the devil, following the devil, in sin,
will be able ever to 'cash the check', to be redeemed, by anyone.

I'm not sure, but I think we might be saying the same thing or at least something similar. No one living under the devil will be saved. I do however believe atonement was made for everyone, but redemption is through faith and needs to be kept till the finish.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually it is.

See you prove my point

 

[Brightfame52]

You still have not answered what faith does and what the purpose of faith is if we are already legally saved?

I will get to faith later, this is about being reconciled to God by the death of Christ, has nothing to do with faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

A person is an enemy of God until he repents and puts his faith in Christ. Then God reconciles the person from being an enemy to becoming a friend of God. That's Romans 5:10 for you.

Romans 5:10 says those who Christ died for were reconciled to God while being enemies doesnt it ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[dwb001]

See you prove my point

Which is?

 

[zoidar]

Romans 5:10 says those who Christ died for were reconciled to God while being enemies doesnt it ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is what I just said: Being an enemy of God you need to repent, and God will reconcile you, turn you from enemy to friend. You may believe in Christ, but you are still enemy if you haven't repented and received His Spirit.

What you are a saying is an enemy of God can't repent, which in reality means no one can be saved. You are saying an enemy first need to be friend, when in reality there is no need for repentance when already friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

@zoidar

That is what I just said: Being an enemy of God you need to repent, and God will reconcile you

Thats false, you actually deny Rom 5:10

 

[zoidar]

@zoidar



Thats false, you actually deny Rom 5:10

“And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away (IOW so you might be reconciled), in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
— Acts 3:17-19

 

[Brightfame52]

“And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away (IOW so you might be reconciled), in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
— Acts 3:17-19

You still deny Rom 5:10 which is unbelief

 

[zoidar]

You still deny Rom 5:10 which is unbelief

I deny your understanding of Rom 5:10, that's all.

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Cor 5:19 Preaching Reconciliation !

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

When Preaching the Word of reconciliation as the Apostle Paul did, it is imperative to Preach the Non Imputation of sin or trespasses unto those Christ died for and reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10, for in our text we read in 2 Cor 5:19 how was God reconciling the World [The Church] unto Himself, for it is put quite plainly " by not imputing their trespasses against them !

The word trespasses here is the greek word paraptōma and means:


to fall beside or near something

2) a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness

a) a sin, misdeed

Its also where we get the word fall away as here Heb 6:6

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So when one for whom God reconciled falls away, that one or ones does not have that laid to their charge. All for whom Christ died did fall away at first in Adam, that was not laid to their charge.

Now understand, everyone of that World in 2 Cor 5:19 is freed or Justified from all sin, they have a clean slate before God, God views them, even as sinners and dead in sin, He views them with no sin charges against them Rom 8:33 ! He views them as the blessed man here Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The word man here is used generically to denote a group of both men and women, and we can very well understand Vs 8 to read this way:

8 Blessed is the world as in 2 Cor 5:19 to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Such a world is freed or Justified from the legal charge of sin before God !

 

[Brightfame52]

I deny your understanding of Rom 5:10, that's all.

Thats fine, but I see it as unbelief of the Truth !